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Forums - Sales Discussion - November 2017 NPD Thread! PS4 > XBO > Switch

StuOhQ said:
Replicant said: 

2017:
PS4: 4,255,423
XB1: 2,914,946
Switch: 3,383,062

Looking like Pachter might be right about Switch beating Xbox in US for 2017, unless December is extremely favorable for Microsoft. I don't see it outselling the Switch by more than 400,000 units in December. 

Nintendo's "shipped" numbers should look even better as they start to fill out store shelves for the first time by meeting demand here in the US.

Yeah. I also think Switch will end up above XB1 in US for 2017.

I know Amazon may be a bit skewed but Switch is killing it on the best seller rankings. XB1 would definitely need a deal similar to November's $189.



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Lawlight said:
tbone51 said:

Thats all fans

Fair enough. I guess it’s a vicious circle. I don’t even mind the Switch doing great, just as long as they’re not the market leader.

What's is so bad about Nintendo being market leader if Sony still have great numbers with PS4?



 

 

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Intrinsic said:
Mar1217 said:
I'm surprised no mod has locked this thread yet, after looking at the arguments going in circle. The fun will be renewed when the true numbers from NPD analysts will arrive.

I don't think true numbers are relevant though. it will be a different ball game if the order is switched up.

The order is the same. 

PS4>Xbox>Switch. 

Just numbers and increases and Ltd are wrong. 



160rmf said:
zorg1000 said:

Remember all the people that said $299 for Switch was way too high and it would fail because of it?

Now all of a sudden its only doing this well because its $299?

I remember that pretty well. The general consensus was that Switch need release with $249 and a game bundled or else will fail.

Some even were saying to drop to $200. 

Of course people don't remember because those narrative was buried just after we have the numbers.

Remember "Switch launch was to quite"? Or Nintendo creating artificial demand? Switch owners desperate for games?

They will never learn and will always change their narrative instead of accepting that Nintendo created a great console.

I have actually been quite vocal about that up to now. I firmly believe it is too high.

If you look at the demographics data presented by Nintendo, the Switch base right now consists of largely males in the mid-20s to early-30s; these are people that likely have jobs and can purchase things for themselves. Nintendo is hoping to start expanding to families this holiday season (the demographics for children and teens that purchased the system thus far is much smaller, but is still considerable and demonstrates that there is demand there). The problem is that children and teens often do not have an income source and Parents and grand-parents purchasing systems for their children will be sensitive to things like pricing (the expensive Switch consoles with a smaller and more expensive library will be sitting next to the cheaper X1 and PS4 with a big library of games, some that are bundled and many that are cheaper). Nintendo seems to be aiming to sell about 14 million units in this fiscal year (LTD that they want is 17.78 million units), that is roughly similar to 3DS's first year. Switch sales at the $300 price point (largely among the mid-30 to early-30s male demographic) have been more healthy thus far than the 3DS, but we do not know if this price will sit well with the demographic that Nintendo is trying to bring in this holiday. Should sales not substantially increase in December (assuming stock is not an issue), and by substantially increase I mean reach 3DS level in its first year, that means the system did not reach the key demographic that helped expand the 3DS in holiday season of its first year (families and children) and that too me would be an indicator that the system needs a price adjustment.

Also, just one thing to mention about November, if the final numbers (based on what has been said on Resetera, apparently these numbers are not accurate even though the rank is) are indeed in the upper 700K range, then that is an early indicator that the system is going into December with similar momentum as the 3DS did (it is a good sign, though again 3DS in its first year sold substantially higher in December than in November; so I cannot emphasize how much this would just be an early indicator). If the numbers are below 700K, then that is a troubling sign that would most likely be attributable to price (and it also likely means Nintendo will not meet their 14 million target). If the numbers are at or above 800K that means the system is going into December with better momentum than 3DS.

I am not too concerned with comparisons to PS4 and XONE in this NPD, as those systems were significantly reduced in price to reach those numbers (the 3DS itself was far outsold by Xbox 360 by a far higher margin in its first November than Switch and PS4, assuming these numbers are within the ball park; and that did not really spell trouble for 3DS). Switch being able to meet Nintendo's production-limit based prediction of 14 million units is a far more important sign for Switch and future actions Nintendo needs to make on it.



nemo37 said:
quickrick said:

LOL your gonna be surprised dude when switch sales are gonna fall of a cliff in 2018. 2017 will be nothing like 2018, weather you wanna believe it or not 2017, is nintendo best line up ever, and also a new system launch that didnt meat demand for months, because most nintedo fans wanted one, so sales were inflated month to month, because day one buyers couldn't get it one.

There are a few problems with your assertion. Sales of a console do not simply fall off the cliff if the company has a backlog and continues to support the system. The 3DS started its first year with a new Mario Kart, 3D Mario, Zelda, Star Fox, Monster Hunter, etc. Its second year did not result in sales suddenly falling off the cliff. Nintendo's games have legs and they can carry a system (particularly when bundled at competitive prices). Moreover, if demand starts to drop Nintendo can simply drop the price and introduce value bundles with existing games that are out (December will be a big test of that; should Nintendo not go over a million in December, assuming stock is available, then that is clearly a sign that Switch needs a price cut in 2018). Furthermore, Nintendo still has plenty of aces that move consoles. 2D Mario, Smash Bros, Pokemon, 2D Zelda, Animal Crossing etc and potentially new IP (not many people thought Splatoon would end up becoming a console seller) all have the potential to do even more not to mention the possibility for sequels. Niche games like Bayonetta and Fire Emblem will attract the smaller bases that support those games to the system. 

The inflation argument makes absolutely no sense. PS4 was sold out for several months after its launch, where its sales inflated because Sony fans wanted one and could not get one on day one or perhaps there was a greater interest by a wider audience? The answer is quite obvious that overall demand was higher, as it is with Switch hence why the systems were selling out. If it was only a small group of people buying the system (the Nintendo fans that purchased Wii U) this system, at this production level, would have been nowhere close to selling out to begin with.

I think the biggest threat to Switch right now is its price. How big of a threat that is will be seen in December where sales have to increase substantially to meet their target. Should sales not substantially increase in December on good stock then it likely means the system is bottlenecked by its price. This bottleneck clearly played a role in these November results, assuming that you are correct in that stock was plentiful throughout November, then the PS4 to Switch gap can largely be explained by the price of the PS4 during BF ($199) week versus Switch's price ($300).

The 3DS didn’t get a new Zelda in its first year. The Mario game came in November and December. And yes, it did get a MH port in December in Japan.



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Lawlight said:
nemo37 said:

There are a few problems with your assertion. Sales of a console do not simply fall off the cliff if the company has a backlog and continues to support the system. The 3DS started its first year with a new Mario Kart, 3D Mario, Zelda, Star Fox, Monster Hunter, etc. Its second year did not result in sales suddenly falling off the cliff. Nintendo's games have legs and they can carry a system (particularly when bundled at competitive prices). Moreover, if demand starts to drop Nintendo can simply drop the price and introduce value bundles with existing games that are out (December will be a big test of that; should Nintendo not go over a million in December, assuming stock is available, then that is clearly a sign that Switch needs a price cut in 2018). Furthermore, Nintendo still has plenty of aces that move consoles. 2D Mario, Smash Bros, Pokemon, 2D Zelda, Animal Crossing etc and potentially new IP (not many people thought Splatoon would end up becoming a console seller) all have the potential to do even more not to mention the possibility for sequels. Niche games like Bayonetta and Fire Emblem will attract the smaller bases that support those games to the system. 

The inflation argument makes absolutely no sense. PS4 was sold out for several months after its launch, where its sales inflated because Sony fans wanted one and could not get one on day one or perhaps there was a greater interest by a wider audience? The answer is quite obvious that overall demand was higher, as it is with Switch hence why the systems were selling out. If it was only a small group of people buying the system (the Nintendo fans that purchased Wii U) this system, at this production level, would have been nowhere close to selling out to begin with.

I think the biggest threat to Switch right now is its price. How big of a threat that is will be seen in December where sales have to increase substantially to meet their target. Should sales not substantially increase in December on good stock then it likely means the system is bottlenecked by its price. This bottleneck clearly played a role in these November results, assuming that you are correct in that stock was plentiful throughout November, then the PS4 to Switch gap can largely be explained by the price of the PS4 during BF ($199) week versus Switch's price ($300).

The 3DS didn’t get a new Zelda in its first year. The Mario game came in November and December. And yes, it did get a MH port in December in Japan.

I was not talking about a new game, but rather OOT3D. OOT3D was for 3DS essentially what MK8:D was for Switch (and vice versa for MK7 for 3DS is true, since that was a new MK game as opposed to a port). 



Lawlight said:
Platina said:
Very good numbers for all systems

Don't think the Switch sold out completely here in Canada, but it didn't go on sale

Yeah, systems don’t usually go on sale on their first holiday.

I'm interested to see if the Switch will get a sale in 2018, I'm a bit doubtful :p



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quickrick said:
zorg1000 said:

2018 will probably be a repeat of 2017.

Switch wins most months according to NPD.

PS4 wins a few and is competitive even in the months it loses.

XBO goes back to a distant 3rd most months unless a big price cut or something happens that gives it a win for 1 or 2 months.

LOL your gonna be surprised dude when switch sales are gonna fall of a cliff in 2018. 2017 will be nothing like 2018, weather you wanna believe it or not 2017, is nintendo best line up ever, and also a new system launch that didnt meat demand for months, because most nintedo fans wanted one, so sales were inflated month to month, because day one buyers couldn't get it one.

I highly doubt the Switch is going to fall off the cliff



nemo37 said:
Lawlight said:

The 3DS didn’t get a new Zelda in its first year. The Mario game came in November and December. And yes, it did get a MH port in December in Japan.

I was not talking about a new game, but rather OOT3D. OOT3D was for 3DS essentially what MK8:D was for Switch (and vice versa for MK7 for 3DS is true, since that was a new MK game as opposed to a port). 

Well, the Switch has its own new Zelda game. So you can say the library mirror one another. The difference is that the Switch got all those games and Splatoon in its first 8 months.



Lawlight said:
nemo37 said:

I was not talking about a new game, but rather OOT3D. OOT3D was for 3DS essentially what MK8:D was for Switch (and vice versa for MK7 for 3DS is true, since that was a new MK game as opposed to a port). 

Well, the Switch has its own new Zelda game. So you can say the library mirror one another. The difference is that the Switch got all those games and Splatoon in its first 8 months.

Isn’t it a port since it was made for Wii U first? That’s not really it’s own title until the next one I’d say.