| sundin13 said: Haha, you came on a little strong so I tried to de-escalate but I guess I should have just been up front. I do think you misunderstood my original point a bit. Its not that you can't criticize, it is that you have to bear in mind the subjectivity of criticisms which relate to "path" decisions. Basically, I wouldn't complain that Dishonored is bad because you have to be slow and methodical if you are going for a Ghost/No Kill run. You don't have to play the game in that manner, and there are many others who do enjoy playing in that manner. On the other hand, if something like a DLC pack is bad (which is typically extra pieces, not path based decisions) that is deserving of criticism (although I would criticize that independently of the base game) and if there are objective criticisms (ex. The framerate drops when you play a Dishonored guns blazing (not that it does, that is just an example)) that is also very much deserving of criticism. Now, as to your points, I'm not really sure what you mean when you are bringing up the community. I don't think that many people making poor criticisms improves the strength of those criticisms (if that is what you are saying). Could you elaborate? And for the blades being Rare blades, I haven't played the game so I'm not entirely sure how "necessary" any one individual blade is, but there are a lot of rare blades. Common blades really aren't used much except for the very beginning of the game and for sending them on quests (which doesn't really involve gameplay). From what I can tell, there are maybe 9 unique blades (tied to the character) and like, 30ish rare blades, and from my understanding, they can pretty much all be viable. Because of that, I think you can make the game work with pretty much any of them that you like, but again, I haven't played it so I can't say for sure. If there are any OP blades with awful designs, I think that is more deserving of criticism (and obviously the unique blades like Pyra are more deserving of criticism). About the subjectivity of criticism, maybe that is a difference in the way I think of criticism because I am of the mindset that there is a lot of objectivity to art criticism. Maybe objectivity is a bit of strong word (but I'll keep using for lack of a better word), but a good critic can see past their own biases and understand the merit of things they don't personally like. However, I think criticism of character designs and things like art style tend to be highly subjective, moreso than most aspects of the game (Obviously the technical aspects would be more objective, but I'd say also there is more objectivity to voice acting, writing, combat, side quest design etc (that isn't to say you can't criticize these in a subjective way, just that there is more room for objective criticism)). |
Well usually when I criticize an argument, I mean to criticize just the argument and not the person. So maybe my wording was a bit offensive, but I really wasn't talking about you in particular.
Not really, I'm just saying that I think there's a bit of a disconnect when you just act like some minor issue is no biggie when there's a lot of people that seem to care about it. Maybe that's a round about way of appealing to popularity through ideas, I hope not because I usually don't like appeals to popularity but in any case I'm not saying that the criticism is more valid because a lot of people care about it, just that shrugging it off seems odd when such is the case. Also, isn't it a bit ironic to say there's a blade for everyone when a lot of people seem to be criticizing the blades? That kind of just proves the point that yes, for a lot of people criticisms are valid even if it's for optional content.
I think the bigger problem is that having the 'blade for everyone' argument makes it sound like you just get whatever blade you want and go from there, when obviously there's roadblocks to getting blades. You could have to go through the entirety of the game without liking a single blade until the end. And even then it might not have the stats or weapon you want. There's no such thing really as a "blade for everyone", that much is true, and so there's always going to be limitations to how much diversity can work for an argument's favor. But at least in a game like Pokemon or Halo Reach this argument would be stronger than in Xenoblade.
Honestly it's funny how much I talk about subjectivity vs. objectivity on this site, in this case it was purely an accident, so I won't really go into that. That being said, this is one of the bigger problems I have with the use of "objectivity". It really just drives discussion away from what's being discussed. For instance people often use the word "objective" to try and see who's argument is right. "Well my argument is objectively right because it's a fact!" Well the entire point of arguments is to see who's opinion comes out on top ... so ... what's even the point of using the word objective in that scenario? I think people should realize that just because something is an opinion doesn't mean it can't be argued, even if opinions aren't factual you can try to convince someone of yours. Which is part of the reason why I'm fine with using flawed but decent words like "overrated". What you are describing has nothing to do with objectivity really, it's called being human and being able to see the viewpoints of other people. Perhaps being "fair" is a better word? Or "reasonable"?
"but a good critic can see past their own biases and understand the merit of things they don't personally like."
See the problem with this though is that there is merit in just about anything. Anyone can subjectively like something, even a game considered to be horrible, so should we always end our statements in "but I can also see [insert 'objective rant']" or what? You can always see someone elses perspective but that doesn't mean much for the final part of an argument. I don't see game mechanics or stories as more objective or subjective either. The reason why you don't see many people criticizing the gameplay is that those people who do probably don't care about Xenoblade or don't comment on it. The reason why you see a ton of people criticizing or defending character designs is because those people are often already invested in the game. So it's not really about subjectivity this or objectivity that, I know I went on a rant just to say it's not about objectivity or subjectivity, but oh well lol. Although, it does tend to be the case that there's a wider array of opinions on character designs and music than other elements.
After writting all of that, all I can really say for the first time in VGChartz history is : I guess we just can't agree? Lol. What you're saying isn't inherently wrong, it's just a point of view , but some of it feels a bit much to me. After you've explained it more I can see some validity to what you've said. But I still have my own viewpoint anyways. I can't believe how aggressive my OC sounds in comparison to this conclusion 
But oh well people can always improve.
