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Forums - Gaming - Belgium says loot boxes are gambling, wants them banned in Europe

Ka-pi96 said:
Errorist76 said:

Those arguments are questionable, because people simply expect a certain level of sophistication with AAA productions these days. 

Do they? Do they refuse to buy games that don't meet some arbitrary AAA standards?

In a word: No.



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Ka-pi96 said:
Errorist76 said:

Those arguments are questionable, because people simply expect a certain level of sophistication with AAA productions these days. 

I wonder why no one (except arcaneguyver) has reacted to my basic argument yet..the argument that games have objectively become cheaper over time.

The argument with season passes essentially being used in order to compensate, is the only truly valid one yet. No offense. If you want simpler, cheaper games, get indies.

Do they? Do they refuse to buy games that don't meet some arbitrary AAA standards? Or can those games still be hugely successful?

You don't need to lower wages to makes games profitable if you don't employ 600 people for one game in the first place. It's not all that hard to make a good game with a much smaller team and budget. Plenty of devs do it on a regular basis even.

It's also kind of funny that you're defending stuff like loot boxes claiming "devs need it to make money" yet some of the main offenders for that kind of stuff are the biggest and most popular games in the industry, ya know... the ones that will easily make a profit without them...

You didn’t read my other comments. I’m not and never was defending it. 



IkePoR said:
Ka-pi96 said:

Do they? Do they refuse to buy games that don't meet some arbitrary AAA standards?

In a word: No.

 

The talk was about AAA games. None of those you posted is one. Why do people keep taking things out of context?!

As I said a few posts above already: “If you want cheaper, less expansive games, get indies”

So what you are basically saying is just because people buy indie games there shouldn’t be any high budget AAA games anymore?! Especially since those game weren’t sold at full price...

Last edited by Errorist76 - on 22 November 2017

IkePoR said:
Errorist76 said:

Lowering the wages in the games industry. Wages mostly get raised over time in other businesses.

Here's a publisher telling it's shareholders - the only people they feel any desire to be truthful to - that a profit turning business model has been axed but bears no detriment to their bottom line.  What this means is that $60 + DLC + Season Pass + multi tiered deluxe editions are making them the intended profit.  At $60, they're still making more money than you or I will ever see in our lives.  

As others have pointed out to you, publishers make their own beds.  That $60 goes farther than it ever has, with costs of physical production at an all time low and the rapidly rising sales of digital copies.  Yet they continue to perpetuate the lie that games are so expensive - they aren't.  In fact, it's more affordable than ever.  It's when you kick your budget management out the door and add unnecessary "features" and prolong development that they get expensive.

If you're feeling sorry for developers and their hungry families, point them to Ninja Theory, who just struck gold with Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice.  Or the thousands of independent developers who are raking it in on the Nintendo Switch alone.  Developers like Respawn that deal with the devil get no sympathy from me; in today's market, publishers are not a necessary evil like they once were.  

There's no excuse in a digital era for "starving artists" nor the greed fueled corporations trying to coax them into signing the dotted line.

 

The argument of digital distribution enhancing the revenue is indeed a valid one. That said Digital is far from being a valid option for many and for good reason. 

Still respecting inflation over the last decades I don’t think that equals out, but it at least is a valid option of an argument.



Errorist76 said: 

The talk was about AAA games. None of those you posted is one. Why do people keep taking things out of context?!

So what you are basically saying is just because people buy indie games there shouldn’t be any high budget AAA games anymore?! Especially since those game weren’t sold at full price...

Yes, the talk is about triple A games.  The point of my post is exactly that - evidence that no one gives a shit about the preconceived, focus tested bullshit "features" these idiots drew up that bloated their budgets into outer space.

People want to kill stuff, build stuff, and get scared of stuff, all with their friends if possible.  The laymen masses don't care about eye-fucking graphics, or Lara Croft's hair physics, or face capture software in fucking sports games.  People want a Star Wars game - as in, a game about Star Wars.  They want shooty-bang fun as the Wookie and Han Solo and the lighty sabers as the Skywalkers and Sith Lords.  They don't care about ANYTHING ELSE.

That's the problem.  People have been swallowing what they've been telling us hook line and sinker for too long.  The point of showing these indie games is that people want fun, memorable experiences above anything.  If EA and Activision don't care about the "vocal minority" complaining about loot boxes - something that makes them money - they damn sure won't care when they complain about graphic and texture quality - things that lose them money - going down.  

Edit: Toned down the profanity.  Sounded quite annoyed there, xP

Last edited by IkePoR - on 22 November 2017

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GribbleGrunger said:
SecondWar said:

Because it's passable when the initial game is free - people get that the developer has to get their money from somewhere. But most people take issue when its tacked onto full-priced console games, as its a sneaky way to boost margins.

Naa, you're thinking about your own motives for disliking it. I'm talking about their motives for disliking it because they apply to phone games too:

 "The mixing of money and addiction is gambling," the Gaming Commission declared. Belgium's Minister of Justice Koen Geens also weighed in, saying, "Mixing gambling and gaming, especially at a young age, is dangerous for the mental health of the child.

And there have been numerous stories over the years of children costing parents hundreds of dollars/pounds because of mobile game transactions. So why now? 

Could be because mobile games (and by extension any digital-only game) doesn't have age restrictions. The games with lootboxes wouldn't be outlawed if ruled as gambling in the EU too, but possibly turned into adults only games, which is a whole other can of worms.



Errorist76 said:
What in your opinion would be a possible alternative in order to raise revenue for developers and publishers, to compensate for ever rising development costs?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qq6HcKj59Q



Good to see. Hopefully this becomes a world wide practice. And i agree 100%.



Yes! Let's do it!



GribbleGrunger said:
SecondWar said:

Because it's passable when the initial game is free - people get that the developer has to get their money from somewhere. But most people take issue when its tacked onto full-priced console games, as its a sneaky way to boost margins.

Naa, you're thinking about your own motives for disliking it. I'm talking about their motives for disliking it because they apply to phone games too:

 "The mixing of money and addiction is gambling," the Gaming Commission declared. Belgium's Minister of Justice Koen Geens also weighed in, saying, "Mixing gambling and gaming, especially at a young age, is dangerous for the mental health of the child.

And there have been numerous stories over the years of children costing parents hundreds of dollars/pounds because of mobile game transactions. So why now? 

 

Why now? Cause now people made enough noise to get it noticed.