Considering how common those mistakes are, it sure seems like something should be done about them - especially considering how easy mistakes they seem. Most harassment sounds like it's going way against common sense. I'm not saying there aren't cases where it's harder to differentiate between, say, flirting and harassment (for the harasser), but most cases should be quite obvious, yet they happen anyway. I mean, who thinks inappropriate suggestions, groping, ass slaps etc. are acceptable and not harassment by default? Then there's even more glaring cases of touching intimate areas. Many of these things might be acceptable at, say, a night club if you've been carefully evaluating the situation and pushing it further (without resistance), but generally it's clear as day that they're unacceptable behaviour.

It's because we live in a society where mean are in a preferable position, and thus the women are essentially pressured into doing so to be successful. It's not like women don't have aspirations and ambitions of their own, they however have to live in a society that is skewed in favour of men and thus have to do things that they otherwise wouldn't do if there was a more equal playing ground. And it's interesting how apparently eliminating hierarchies makes people homogeneous, because having it so that people have to give up a bit of themselves in order to succeed seems like it makes people more heterogeneous to me.

Glorying in their victimhood? If they don't bring the situation to light, nothing will change or improve.

"but generally it's clear as day that they're unacceptable behaviour."

and no one at all times abides by the concepts of what society deems as aceptable

don't get me wrong here, i'm not saying that this is not a problem, but i think its necessary to come at problems from a realistic perspective with the intention of actually mitigating against the problem in some way, or reducing the problem if possible

and tbh the dynamics in terms of how women and men operate make a solution for this difficult to unlikely imo, i already mentioned one - that women are generally drawn to men with power and that those men are most likely to be the type that pushes past boundaries... what can be done about this? i can't think of anything personally

maybe at some point we need to come to terms with the fact that the world is not perfect and that we need to accept that there is always going to be some risk that is innate to existing

And how is saying that essentially it's the way women are going to help anything? It's just normalizing it.

"It's because we live in a society where mean are in a preferable position"

we don't live in the 1950s, women dominate tertiary education and earn more than men in their 20s, i suppose this drops off as women get older because of issues like them having kids

" thus the women are essentially pressured into doing so to be successful"

i wasn't talking about social pressure that women face, i was talking about one aspect of what women are attracted to in men - success and power... unless your argument is that you don't really think women are attracted more to powerful and successful men

"they however have to live in a society that is skewed in favour of men"

how? when sexism against women is illegal?

" thus have to do things that they otherwise wouldn't do if there was a more equal playing ground"

again, we do not live in the 1950s and this is another strawman regardless

"And it's interesting how apparently eliminating hierarchies makes people homogeneous"

well you'd have to first understand that differences naturally result in hierarchies... do you at least understand that?

"because having it so that people have to give up a bit of themselves in order to succeed seems like it makes people more heterogeneous to me."

expand upon this please, because i really don't understand what you are saying here

is your argument here that people shouldn't have to work? please clarify

tell me, how do you when you are outside identify which people are men and which people are women?

the point i'm trying to make by asking that is that there are certain characteristics that we accept as being more common in either gender

one thing i'll add here is that is at least you are trying to have a discussion about this, which is worthy of respect unlike others here who think they are helping the world by dividing it into two absolutes

the same people apparently don't realise that the darkest periods of human history have occurred as a result of doing so

Psst, your posts are more readable if you insert less newlines. Forum software makes each newline start a new paragraph, as you can see when posting. I edited the extra newlines from your post to make it easier to read.

I am trying to come at this problem (like most others) from a realistic perspective. The realistic perspective here is that people pull off some stuff that should be prevented by common sense. I'm not talking about ambiguous situations where it's difficult to say whether something is harassment or not, but situations where common sense should dictate what's appropriate and what's not. Once we get that fixed, it should be easier to focus on the more difficult situations.

Women are individuals like men, and not everyone behaves the same. There might be some general trends, but I don't think what you're describing is accurate enough to warrant such generalization. There's a relatively small number of men with power, and it's not possible for all women to be drawn to them and getting harassed because of that. Men with power get the most attention in these cases because they're well known but it doesn't mean harassment done by them makes up most of harassment overall. Most harassment happens in everyday interactions with people roughly on the same level (power-wise). And I seriously hope you're not counting a woman as drawn to a man with power if that man is her boss, because most jobs have bosses, most people need a job, and thus women have a really hard time avoiding this kind of men with power, whether they want it or not.

Harassment, as it is, is not something that is acceptable in any way. We can probably never get rid of it completely, but the time for that argument is not even close when most harassment goes against common sense. You sound like a person who advocates common sense a lot, so why not now? Because it doesn't fit your agenda?

This website has innumerably defended racism, sexism, beastiality, infidelity, homocide, Nazism, rape, and even pedophilia. So, honestly -given the audience, I shouldn't be surprised. But I guess I have hope that there is a bottom to their horrid ideals. But hoping that in a bottomless well is wishful thinking I suppose

Yes, we don't live in the 50s, but when the institutions that perpetuate sexism are still in place, whether it's technically "legal" or not is not going to make much of a difference, especially when there is already an uphill battle to climb in the first place. And you weren't talking about societal pressure? So then, you're one of those people that subscribes to that alpha and beta ideology that is honestly extremely questionable. How about we ask the women here whether or not they like being sexually harassed? I assume we already know what the answer will be. And hierarchies eliminate individuality because it forces people to conform in order to be accepted into the workforce: if people deviate too much from the expectations they are not going to last long. My argument isn't that people shouldn't have to work, it's that they shouldn't have to sell their labour at their own expense to the enrichment of others.