Well the jew hate,  gay hate and less respect for women is really worrying.  I just hope these Muslim kids growing up now have less of it then their parents from wherever they came from.  And if every generation after has less of it then eventually it will be gone.  

Now we have plenty of jew haters,  gay haters and men who don't respect woman from Europe too so it's not exclusively a Muslim problem. 

I think you keep injecting other countries into this discussion or talk in a much broader sense when this thread is only about Austria and the Austrian burqa ban. We are talking about a country where a far-right party has had a consistently strong presence for decades, so when it comes to problems because of intolerance, it's not immigrants that Austrians have to worry about. We already have enough of our own people be such a problem.

What you keep missing about the Austrian burqa ban is that it doesn't only affect an estimated 150 muslim women who wear burqas, but also thousands of Austrians if the law is enforced as it is written. The main reason why I am against this law is not because I am left wing (I am not), it's because the law comes with utterly stupid consequences for Austrians and only exists to pander to simpletons who are scared that Islam could take over, so the primary goal of the law is that these simpletons don't become voters for the FPÖ.

It's paranoia to believe that we need laws to keep out ultra-conservative muslims or otherwise our whole society will be screwed eventually. Ultra-conservatives don't come here by choice to begin with, because they view our society as one of sinners. The only reason why such people move here is because they are out of choices. They wouldn't leave their home countries if there was no war. Once you understand the reason why ultra-conservatives move to Europe, you should also realize that a burqa ban isn't going to stop them. A burqa ban is a far lesser nuisance than what they face elsewhere and it only affects their women anyway, and women are second class and have no say in the matter to begin with.

That is absolutely not true, there are no people I don't care about. It is you who constantly bring up the number 150, as if because they are few, they are not worth caring about. I legetimately think that a burqa ban can help some of these women integrate better into society, especially if other laws can help them get out of their ghetto and interact more with the native society.

1)So any law that is forcing muslim women to get out and interact with society is automatically headscratching to you? Is it headscratching to require that people attend meetings at for instance the city hall to get unemployment benefits. Is it nonsensical to require that they take a language class to keep their residence permit? There are a lot of reasonable ways to basicly drag them out of their houses and ghettos, against their husbands will if necessary.

But it seems that for you and a lot of other people on the left wing, it is so so terrible to require anything of the people who choose to migrate to our countries.

2)We are dealing with problems of the parallel-society we have created, muslims are overrepresented in crime statistics,  a lot more muslims have negative views on jews and homosexuals compared to the native people, and a lot more muslims treat women as inferior. Turkish immigrants are supporting Erdogan in abundance. The list of problems is massive, and a lot of it can be traced to the fact that we haven't made it absolutely clear that you have to adapt to western values when you move here.

Either you are blind to all those problems, or you lack the balls to come up with some solution for them, and instead you trash the people who do look for a solution and find one that is admittably flawed, could be it won't help as intended, but is definitely worth trying out, since we don't have any better. And yes sure, we do put a restriction on a human right that says people are allowed to wear whatever they want, but nobody are getting their lives destroyed because they aren't allowed to wear a burqa. Sometimes you need to create a minor problem to deal with a bigger one. And I think that a burqa ban doesn't only affect the 150 who wear a burqa, but it also sends a clear signal that we are against the mentality that women are not allowed to show any of their body to other men than their husbands, which could keep some of those muslims, who are nearly impossible to integrate, out of our countries.

I am always late with these things because I care so little about politics, but it has come to my attention that there are elections in Austria this Sunday. Some people may remember my thread from last year about the presidential election:

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=216193

This time a new government will be formed and things are pointing towards a coalition between ÖVP and FPÖ. The ÖVP is pretty much the Austrian equivalent of Merkel's CDU in Germany while the FPÖ's German equivalent is the AfD. These two parties have run the government before (only once, I think), but otherwise it has been a coalition between ÖVP and SPÖ with the only difference being who of the two had the higher share of votes and more say in the government. SPÖ is on a downward spiral though, plus ÖVP has been moving more to the right lately, so despite ÖVP + SPÖ probably still being possible, the ÖVP is much more likely to choose the FPÖ as their partner. At least that's what I've picked up from the little news that I paid attention to.

Here are a bunch of surveys from September that were conducted for major newspapers to give you an idea about the power levels of each political party in Austria:

28.9.2017 Unique research-Umfrage: 
ÖVP 33%, FPÖ 26%, SPÖ 24%, NEOS 6%, Grüne 5%, Pilz 4%, Sonstige 3% 
(Befragte: n = 1000, Befragungszeitraum 25.9.-28.9.2017; für die Tageszeitung Österreich)

17.9.2017 IMAS-Umfrage: 
ÖVP 33-35%, FPÖ 23-25%, SPÖ 22-24%, Grüne 7-9%, NEOS 3-5%, Pilz 3-5%, Sonstige ...% 
(Befragte: n = 1033, Zeitraum: 17. August - 11. September 2017, für die Kronenzeitung.)

11.9.2017 market-Umfrage (David Pfarrhofer): 
ÖVP 33%, SPÖ 26%, FPÖ 24%, NEOS 5%, Pilz 5%, Grüne 4%, Sonstige 3% 
(Befragte: n = 814, maximale Schwankungsbreite +/- 3,4%, für die Tageszeitung Der Standard.)

10.9.2017 OGM-Umfrage 
ÖVP 33%, SPÖ 25%, FPÖ 25%, Grüne 5%, NEOS 5%, Pilz 5%, Sonstige 2% 
(Befragte: n = 805, maximale Schwankungsbreite +/- 3,0%, für die Tageszeitung KURIER.)

Don't ask me what NEOS and Pilz are. Until an hour ago I didn't even know they were a thing. What's very important is that in early October evidence for dirty campaigning of the SPÖ came to light, so the party is expected to suffer in the election and therefore the above surveys are probably misrepresenting support for the SPÖ as prospective voters might be disgusted by the scandal and vote for a different party or stay at home.

Looks like dark times ahead for Austria. A burqa ban has become effective at the beginning of this month and to cloud its racist motivations, it also prohibits other ways of covering your face. Therefore, someone covering their face with a scarf during the cold months of the year can be punished with a €150 fine if the police deems the temperature as not cold enough. I am not joking, this is real.

So what's next for Austria in the near future is that there is going to be a referendum to join Germany. I don't want to live in the same country as vivster. I wish I was overexaggerating, but this isn't like the presidential election last year where a positive outcome was more probable than a negative outcome.

Wenn der Kuchen spricht, haben die Krümel Pause.

Yes, I would still have a problem with a plain burqa ban, because it punishes muslim women instead of their men who are the actual source of the problem.

By ultra-conservatives I refer to those who force their women to wear a burqa; I single out this group because those muslims only account for a small percentage of all muslims in the country. Stoning people for their homosexuality is an entirely different topic and as long as there are no reports of muslims acting violently against homosexuals in Austria, there's no real problem. Sure, there are people who think that homosexuality should be punished, but thoughts aren't a crime. You'd easily find Austrians who hold crazy beliefs, but as long as they don't harm others and don't call publicly for the harm of others, it's not something that requires measures to counteract the beliefs.

That's why I find the fear of islamification way overblown, because if I was scared of nutcases, I would have more reason to be afraid of Austrian citizens than immigrants. A number like 25% (going with your estimate for the sake of argument) of muslims thinking that homosexuality should be illegal isn't really scary when over 20% of Austrian's voters actively support a political party like the FPÖ.

EDIT: Early estimates after the end of the election put ÖVP at 31%, SPÖ 27%, FPÖ 25%, Neos 5%, Grüne 3.9%. So Grüne could be missing out because the threshold to get in is 4%.

@bolded: You spent all this time to talk about how muslims don't want to integrate, but then turn around and say that you don't believe that they would refuse to integrate.

And yes, there needs to be violence or a public call for violence for a significant problem to exist, i.e. a problem that needs to be acted against. A thought police isn't going to work and it is a crazy idea.

I can't shake the feeling that you have trouble to talk about Austria as you constantly drift off into talking about the UK and their situation. It's also not like the FPÖ has experienced a recent rise, it's a party that has been popular for decades because Austria is a country filled with people who are xenophobic. The burqa ban in Austria exists for no other reason than to pander to xenophobes; it has already been pointed out by multiple people in this thread that the anti-burqa law is stupid and the only counter-argument you could provide is that you don't believe that muslims would refuse to integrate in society, which ironically contradicts the rest of the stance you have towards muslims.