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Forums - Politics Discussion - We need to stop NRA (nonsensical rifle addiction)

The NRA used to be non political and mainly there to help teach gun safety to the masses. Somewhere around early 80s it was hijacked by the extreme right within the organization and turned into the political lobbying group it represents today. So I had no problem with what they did pre 80s. It is what they have turned into which is troubling.



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numberwang said:
Rab said:

People saying untrained US citizens with guns will be able to defend themselves from a professional US army are living in lala land

The Vietcong was everything but untrained. They already fought for a decade as the US entered the war. Also the war was desastrous for Vietnam still. Millions died, millions others were mutiliated or poisoned by Agent Orange. The losses on american side were small in comparison.



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Ka-pi96 said:
VGPolyglot said:

A lot of governments are biased against minorities like transsexuals, at the local, state or federal level. So, when those who have the weapons are biased against them, they need a way to defend themselves on their own.

So because their garbage man may be biased against them and refuse to collect their trash or some petty shit like that they should get guns to shoot them?

And where did I say that?



Mnementh said:

The Vietcong was everything but untrained. They already fought for a decade as the US entered the war. Also the war was desastrous for Vietnam still. Millions died, millions others were mutiliated or poisoned by Agent Orange. The losses on american side were small in comparison.

I'm pretty sure the Vietcong were getting funding from China and other communist countries at the time. 

Oops sorry responded to wrong person.



VGPolyglot said:
Ka-pi96 said:

So instead of making guns as close to impossible to obtain as it possibly could be, as well as discouraging hate crimes altogether, a better solution would just be to encourage an arms race?

A lot of governments are biased against minorities like transsexuals, at the local, state or federal level. So, when those who have the weapons are biased against them, they need a way to defend themselves on their own.

Under no circumstance (except for war or prevention of mass slaughter and self defense from mortal danger) should a civilian ever fire a gun at another human being. Even if they are bullied or have less rights than a heterosexual. Not being able to marry or having to go into a certain toilet is not equal to any of those situations. With many governmenta I assume you imply Russia, Eastern Europe and other countries where bring LBQT+ isn't being penalised.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

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Qwark said:
VGPolyglot said:

A lot of governments are biased against minorities like transsexuals, at the local, state or federal level. So, when those who have the weapons are biased against them, they need a way to defend themselves on their own.

Under no circumstance (except for war or prevention of mass slaughter and self defense from mortal danger) should a civilian ever fire a gun at another human being. Even if they are bullied or have less rights than a heterosexual. Not being able to marry or having to go into a certain toilet is not equal to any of those situations. With many governmenta I assume you imply Russia, Eastern Europe and other countries where bring LBQT+ isn't being penalised.

They face hate crimes more extreme than that. And I don't just mean those places, I also mean the United States, as we are talking about the US specifically here.



Ka-pi96 said:
VGPolyglot said:

And where did I say that?

Governments at the local, state or federal level. Trash men are government employees (at the local level?) are they not?

Or were you talking about mail men? Tax collectors? Fire fighters? All people that you really won't ever need to shoot regardless of how biased they may or may not be.

Perhaps you mean cops? Cops that shoot people if they suspect them of having a gun and intending to use? You're suggesting people actually pull out a gun on those cops if they think they're being treated unfairly by them? I'll agree that US cops aren't doing as good a job as they should (not even close really), but people pulling out guns on cops is just going to make things a whole lot worse!

I'm saying they're not really sympathetic to the discrimination that they receive, so they have to defend themselves in lack of protection of others.



Ka-pi96 said:
VGPolyglot said:

I'm saying they're not really sympathetic to the discrimination that they receive, so they have to defend themselves in lack of protection of others.

Protect themselves with guns? How does that even work? People stop discriminating against them just because they own guns? Nope, that won't happen. Will those being discriminated against become the bad guys if they start shooting people? Definitely!

Well, I don't know about you, but I'd be much less willing to attack someone if they had a gun.



Hiku said:
DonFerrari said:
And just as a very relevant point for people here that believe in gun control.

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/01/09/over-98-of-mass-shootings-occurred-on-gun-free-zones-research-shows/

You guys can check other sources, but the relevant information is that it claims that 98% of mass shooting occured in gun free zone, meaning, areas were the government is supposed to have total control of gun carried...

Those seem to have turned out to be false claims:


  • Of 133 mass shootings identified between January 2009 and July 2015, only 17 (13%) took place in “gun-free zones” (areas where the carrying of concealed guns is prohibited). The remaining incidents took place in private residences, or public places where concealed guns could be lawfully carried.1 Recent examples include the following:
    • On July 5, 2012 in Oak Creek, WI, a 40-year-old man fatally shot six people at a Sikh temple. Under Wisconsin law, a person can bring a weapon into a place of worship unless that place has informed congregants that they cannot or there is a sign. Amardeep Kaleka, whose father founded the temple and was killed, confirmed that there was no sign.2
    • On September 6, 2011 in Carson City, NV, a 32-year-old man with a history of mental health commitments and a protective order against him fatally shot four people including three National Guard members at an IHOP restaurant. IHOP allows franchises to decide their own firearm policies, and this franchise allows the concealed carry of firearms on their premises.3
    • On April 13, 2013 in Herkimer, NY, a 64-year-old man killed two people at John’s Barbershop and then killed two people at Gaffey’s Fast Lube. Gaffey’s Fast Lube allows permit holders to carry concealed weapons on the premises. Though John’s Barbershop did not reopen, the owner of a neighboring business did not recall that the store prohibited firearms"
    • A regular shill for the gun lobby, John Lott, routinely distorts facts to bolster his claims that “these killers don’t attack randomly; they keep picking the few gun-free zones to do virtually all their attacks.”7 On multiple occasions he has written that “Since at least 1950, all but two public mass shootings in America have taken place where general citizens are banned from carrying guns,”8 although this is completely at odds with evidence Everytown assembled over just the last seven years.

https://everytownresearch.org/the-gun-lobbys-false-claims-about-gun-free-zones/

Either way, let me point out the futility of having a "gun free zone" in a school, when everywhere else surrounding the school isn't a gun free zone.
If you're going to do gun control it has to be done properly and thoroughly. Otherwise it's pointless. And that's an area where USA doesn't go nearly far enough. NRA spends millions every year to prevent meaningful gun control. Even defunding and forbidding research data from advocating gun control.

So basically, we don't even have the proper data to look at because NRA buries it.

Last I know they were considered "partially true". And sorry about considering 2 people killed as mass shooting. That certainly make a statistic very good right? Next we call genocide someone that killed 5 in the same family.

And why would NRA fund research that goes against their creed and marketing? Is like cigarrete companies paying ads and research to prove cigars are bad.

Ka-pi96 said:
VGPolyglot said:

Yes, queers can be victims of hate crimes too, and they should be able to defend themselves.

This has got to be like the faultiest logic ever. If those that wanted to do hate crimes didn't have access to guns then the potential victims wouldn't need them either. It's simple really.

But they can mob linch that person... but if that person had the gun he would have a little more chance of self-defense.

Mnementh said:
DonFerrari said:

The difference in Brazil comes from the size of the country, the vast border, imense coast... it is just impossible to totally control guns in Brazil.

Care to compare the amount of legal gun on the population per homicide rate on USA, Germany and Brazil?

The difference in murders is not even close related to how strict is the legislation on legal weapon.

Same should be true for some other countries. Russia, while having a pretty high murder rate has it much lower than Brazil. For India it is barely more than a tenth of Brazils rate. And China even has a lower murder rate than Germany. All these countries are big, have a vast border, an immense coast, but seemingly they do better.

Yep, because the gun control isn't the most relevant denominator to determine gun violence. So seeing that is it worth prohibiting all legal gun?



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Ka-pi96 said:
VGPolyglot said:

Well, I don't know about you, but I'd be much less willing to attack someone if they had a gun.

And I don't know about you but I'd be assuming someone is a terrorist if they had a gun and would be calling the police ASAP...

You must think there are a lot of terrorists in the US then.