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Forums - Politics - EPA Withdrawing from Clean Power Plan

 

Should EPA withdraw from the CPP?

Yes, because I have no gr... 19 21.35%
 
No. 70 78.65%
 
Total:89

Scott Pruitt has always rubbed me the wrong way.

Our climate is warming and in turn the ocean is too which amplifies extreme weather patterns, the sort that devastate. See Puerto Rico, Houston, and Florida recently. Adding more CO2 to our atmosphere is not going to help.



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StarOcean said:

So, uh... what're we going to do when countries like China, Russia, and the rest of the world -who are not only reducing emissions, but finding cleaner and better alternatives, completely run laps around us because we decided to stay with old tech and making this country more and more toxic for our younger generations?

'Cause I'm pretty sure shit like coal has no future. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2017/10/09/pruitt-tells-coal-miners-he-will-repeal-power-plan-rule-tuesday-the-war-on-coal-is-over/?utm_term=.99f47ae4697b

We'll just copy their tech.



KLAMarine said:


Our climate is warming and in turn the ocean is too which amplifies extreme weather patterns, the sort that devastate. See Puerto Rico, Houston, and Florida recently. 

It is too early to make such claims like that. This is for the same reason that saying, "how can the world be warming, there was a really bad snowstorm each of the last three years? is poor logic. Associating local events with global trends is hard.  Just wanted to highlight that, because saying "look at hurricane [Harvey, Maria, Irma]" is not the best argument, as it is pretty unclear the extent to which warming increased their intensity and with climate change there will be regions of the world that get less precipitation -- if you focus on local events to support global trends, the people live in other local realities become hyperskeptics. 

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/aug/31/what-do-we-know-about-relationship-between-climate/

"A draft report on climate science conducted by 13 federal agencies as part of the National Climate Assessment said models showed the number of very intense storms have been rising as a result of a warmer world. But the trend has yet to rise above normal variation.

The report also said that scientists are better able to attribute weather events to climate change than they used to be, but linking individual events to climate change is more complicated. The scientists we spoke to about Hurricane Harvey expressed a similar challenge."



Teeqoz said:
To be honest.... I don't think it matters. Coal is dying a quick death anyway, and it was already before the so called "war on coal". The biggest killer of coal is of course not renewables (yet), but natural gas, however that is but a stop-gap before renewables and nuclear (fission and eventually fusion, which is the end-game of electricity generation) can catch up

Indeed going to paste this here:

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/20/business/energy-environment/a-bleak-outlook-for-trumps-promises-to-coal-miners.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share&_r=0


Instead of opening the mines an empty promise basically if we are talking about creating jobs it would have been better if he did something else.








fatslob-:O said:

We should consider ALL sources of power, not just clean power. Committing and limiting ourselves to a single option is stupid when there's potential in all options ...

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3

Coal ALONE provided 30% of US electricity generation last year but the vast majority of clean energy (aside from nuclear) cannot realistically meet our current demand in the long term ...

That being said the EPA canning CPP is not only a momentous day for the coal industry but it signifies our new potential for energy independence since america has big shale deposits that they can rely on ...

I think not.  No matter what, coal is going out even if this roll back happens.  After reading this article this thing will be locked up in court for years before its takes effect if it takes effect.  The problem with coal is that Natural Gas is cheaper or comparable and cleaner, doesn't polute the air with dangerous ash or harmful mecury etc.  



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Machiavellian said:

I think not.  No matter what, coal is going out even if this roll back happens.  After reading this article this thing will be locked up in court for years before its takes effect if it takes effect.  The problem with coal is that Natural Gas is cheaper or comparable and cleaner, doesn't polute the air with dangerous ash or harmful mecury etc.  

Withdrawing from CPP also benefits natural gas since there will be less strenuous restrictions regarding usage of that source of energy ... 

Also is it a good idea to completely drop coal production to increase natural gas consumption when much of the natural gas in the US is imported from a foreign nation such as Canada ?

By dropping coal production entirely we'd be effectively sending Canada a message that it's okay for them to set whatever price the US has to pay plus keeping US coal production keeps vulnerable communities out of poverty too ...

Can you really say that your fine with with curbing emissions at the expense of human welfare and letting a foreign nation have a monopoly on US energy sources ? 

At this point extreme enviromentalists and those colluding with them ironically have as much empathy as Trump does so they say ... 



I clicked yes because a poll like that is a terrible way to run a poll if you think that's a good way to gauge public views on a matter... sad times for the illusion of democracy or a vote.

Do you like Tim
[ ] Yes
[ ] No I'm a dribbling idiot who likes a moron

See how the above isn't a way to ask a question of a user? you are stacking the odds on a user clicking the option which doesn't attack either them or the reason behind clicking the option they feel is right, if you want to load reasons for an option being right into something then do it in the OP and educate people why your thoughts on the matter are valid.



Why not check me out on youtube and help me on the way to 2k subs over at www.youtube.com/stormcloudlive

The point of the EPA is to keep the environment clean for our descendants...
They could have at least waited for people to remember that September was the hottest September since people started watching...



Go Trump! Coal, nuclear and gas are the only ways to sustain reliable baseload power. We learnt this the hard way in Australia. If you want reliable power, a mix of coal, gas a nuclear is the way to go.



sc94597 said:
KLAMarine said:


Our climate is warming and in turn the ocean is too which amplifies extreme weather patterns, the sort that devastate. See Puerto Rico, Houston, and Florida recently. 

It is too early to make such claims like that. This is for the same reason that saying, "how can the world be warming, there was a really bad snowstorm each of the last three years? is poor logic. Associating local events with global trends is hard.  Just wanted to highlight that, because saying "look at hurricane [Harvey, Maria, Irma]" is not the best argument, as it is pretty unclear the extent to which warming increased their intensity and with climate change there will be regions of the world that get less precipitation -- if you focus on local events to support global trends, the people live in other local realities become hyperskeptics. 

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/aug/31/what-do-we-know-about-relationship-between-climate/

"A draft report on climate science conducted by 13 federal agencies as part of the National Climate Assessment said models showed the number of very intense storms have been rising as a result of a warmer world. But the trend has yet to rise above normal variation.

The report also said that scientists are better able to attribute weather events to climate change than they used to be, but linking individual events to climate change is more complicated. The scientists we spoke to about Hurricane Harvey expressed a similar challenge."

"it is pretty unclear the extent to which warming increased their intensity"

But global warming does in fact amplify their intensity, yes?

"if you focus on local events to support global trends"

Luckily, I don't believe I did. I believe I pointed to a global trend to explain local events.