By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics Discussion - EPA Withdrawing from Clean Power Plan

 

Should EPA withdraw from the CPP?

Yes, because I have no gr... 19 21.35%
 
No. 70 78.65%
 
Total:89

So, uh... what're we going to do when countries like China, Russia, and the rest of the world -who are not only reducing emissions, but finding cleaner and better alternatives, completely run laps around us because we decided to stay with old tech and making this country more and more toxic for our younger generations?

'Cause I'm pretty sure shit like coal has no future. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2017/10/09/pruitt-tells-coal-miners-he-will-repeal-power-plan-rule-tuesday-the-war-on-coal-is-over/?utm_term=.99f47ae4697b



Around the Network

Who cares if the world gets totally screwed in a couple of decades! As long as it doesn't cost us any money, right?



EPA? Aren't they evil?



Bet Shiken that COD would outsell Battlefield in 2018. http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8749702

So what exactly do you green energy fans propose be done about employing the coal miners you want to put out of work? Since 2011 60,000 coal miners have been laid off, and there are still 77,000 more coal miners who will be laid off if coal mining is abandoned. These people have a skill set that doesn't transfer over to many other jobs. Many towns in West Virginia, Kentucky, and Pennsylvania are built exclusively around the coal mining industry, there simply aren't any other jobs for these miners to work near them. Are you willing to pay increased taxes in order to retrain these out of work coal miners? Personally I'm all for retraining them, but I have a feeling many of the people who want green energy aren't willing to pay higher taxes to retrain the employees they want to put out of work.



shikamaru317 said:
So what exactly do you green energy fans propose be done about employing the coal miners you want to put out of work? Since 2011 60,000 coal miners have been laid off, and there are still 77,000 more coal miners who will be laid off if coal mining is abandoned. These people have a skill set that doesn't transfer over to many other jobs. Many towns in West Virginia, Kentucky, and Pennsylvania are built exclusively around the coal mining industry, there simply aren't any other jobs for these miners to work near them. Are you willing to pay increased taxes to in order to retrain these out of work coal miners? Personally I'm all for retraining them, but I have a feeling many of the people who want green energy aren't willing to pay higher taxes to retrain the employees they want to put out of work.

They will do the exact same thing weavers, millers, stable masters, machinists, type setters and whole other legions of extict professions have done. Learn other skills.

A big part of the problem can probably already be resolved by just not restaffing positions that are freed up by people being pensioned and for the rest, a reschooling program that opens up the possibility of better jobs for them would probably be the best option. And yes, if it means that the US gets to actually invest into forward looking technologies that will bring the US to the forefront of the economy instead of being stuck in the past, with no prospects it means you should gladly watch you tax money go towards the reeducation of 77,000 people.

Coal is going to die sooner or later, but it is going to die. You can either have a coordinated effort that will minimize the negative effects on the economy and have positive longterm prospects, or you can marry yourself to the crash that will happen eventually.



Around the Network
shikamaru317 said:

So what exactly do you green energy fans propose be done about employing the coal miners you want to put out of work? Since 2011 60,000 coal miners have been laid off, and there are still 77,000 more coal miners who will be laid off if coal mining is abandoned. These people have a skill set that doesn't transfer over to many other jobs. Many towns in West Virginia, Kentucky, and Pennsylvania are built exclusively around the coal mining industry, there simply aren't any other jobs for these miners to work near them. Are you willing to pay increased taxes in order to retrain these out of work coal miners? Personally I'm all for retraining them, but I have a feeling many of the people who want green energy aren't willing to pay higher taxes to retrain the employees they want to put out of work.

They do what the people who taught type writing, the people who steam power did -get different jobs. Their jobs have no future and will face extinction. Do you propose that we keep steam workers too? Or prehaps those working on the printing press machines from the 1850's also need to still be around because screw progress. 

The leaders of green energy in the future are the people who will shape and control the world. Saying we should keep coal while our competition gets cheaper and infinite energy while our finite energy is fastly depleting is ludicrous. Unless you prefer the US not be a super power in the next few decades, then go right ahead. Because screw the vastly superior ways to harvest energy as long as it brings a smile to at least one toothless coal miners face. A job in which you are almost expected to suffer massive medical problems that are rarely insured. 

Because let's be honest here, not a single person -Democrat, Republican, or anything else, gives a single fuck about coal miners. They've proven it time and time again. No side cares about them. You, don't care about them. The only people who care are those who profit from them like Mr. Scott Pruitt. 



shikamaru317 said:

So what exactly do you green energy fans propose be done about employing the coal miners you want to put out of work? Since 2011 60,000 coal miners have been laid off, and there are still 77,000 more coal miners who will be laid off if coal mining is abandoned. These people have a skill set that doesn't transfer over to many other jobs. Many towns in West Virginia, Kentucky, and Pennsylvania are built exclusively around the coal mining industry, there simply aren't any other jobs for these miners to work near them. Are you willing to pay increased taxes in order to retrain these out of work coal miners? Personally I'm all for retraining them, but I have a feeling many of the people who want green energy aren't willing to pay higher taxes to retrain the employees they want to put out of work.

You have a great example I believe in virginia. They had 1500 employees working in the coal mines and the company wanted to do in a new way so they let everyone learn it who wanted to learn it at the end they only hired 100 of them because of automation and a new way of mining that needs way less people. So opening coal mines or dig more for coal will not end up creating the amount of jobs some people expect.

Secondly those regions have basically millions of people who gave up in finding a job and I don't feel bad for them. Especially when you have millions of immigrants who move from a far away country with no skills and don't speak English and still make it in the USA.  If you choose to stay in a region where a lot of people are unemployed for +5 years and all they do is complain about the goverment but at the same time don't make any plans to move away to a better region in the USA and take it in their own hands then I are themselves to blame.






We should consider ALL sources of power, not just clean power. Committing and limiting ourselves to a single option is stupid when there's potential in all options ...

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3

Coal ALONE provided 30% of US electricity generation last year but the vast majority of clean energy (aside from nuclear) cannot realistically meet our current demand in the long term ...

That being said the EPA canning CPP is not only a momentous day for the coal industry but it signifies our new potential for energy independence since america has big shale deposits that they can rely on ...



I wish I had the energy to properly address this in a well thought out comment, but I don't. This is absolutely fucked.



Chinese food for breakfast

 

StarOcean said:
shikamaru317 said:

So what exactly do you green energy fans propose be done about employing the coal miners you want to put out of work? Since 2011 60,000 coal miners have been laid off, and there are still 77,000 more coal miners who will be laid off if coal mining is abandoned. These people have a skill set that doesn't transfer over to many other jobs. Many towns in West Virginia, Kentucky, and Pennsylvania are built exclusively around the coal mining industry, there simply aren't any other jobs for these miners to work near them. Are you willing to pay increased taxes in order to retrain these out of work coal miners? Personally I'm all for retraining them, but I have a feeling many of the people who want green energy aren't willing to pay higher taxes to retrain the employees they want to put out of work.

They do what the people who taught type writing, the people who steam power did -get different jobs. Their jobs have no future and will face extinction. Do you propose that we keep steam workers too? Or prehaps those working on the printing press machines from the 1850's also need to still be around because screw progress. 

The leaders of green energy in the future are the people who will shape and control the world. Saying we should keep coal while our competition gets cheaper and infinite energy while our finite energy is fastly depleting is ludicrous. Unless you prefer the US not be a super power in the next few decades, then go right ahead. Because screw the vastly superior ways to harvest energy as long as it brings a smile to at least one toothless coal miners face. A job in which you are almost expected to suffer massive medical problems that are rarely insured. 

Because let's be honest here, not a single person -Democrat, Republican, or anything else, gives a single fuck about coal miners. They've proven it time and time again. No side cares about them. You, don't care about them. The only people who care are those who profit from them like Mr. Scott Pruitt. 

I'm sorry, but that is just rude, and a stereotype at that. You can claim I don't care about them but I do. Many of my older relatives were coal miners in West Virginia and Pennsylvania (great grandfathers, great uncles) and some of my extended cosuins still are coal miners in West Virginia. Many of these people are trapped in towns with no other big industries besides coal mining. If you are born in one of those towns and don't get good enough grades to get a scholarship you are basically trapped and eventually end up following in your parent's footsteps and become a coal miner yourself because there just aren't any other options available to you. It's a thankless, dangerous job, but a job that has been essential to the US for over a century, and still is essential now, even though public opinion has turned against it in favor of cleaner energy. 

You say that the government doesn't look out for them and you are absolutely right, but maybe it's about high time that changed. I'm not saying that the Trump administration's plan of trying to revive the coal industry is particularly good for them, sure some of them will get their jobs back, but is it a job they really need back, as dangerous as it is? But it's better than nothing, better than leaving them to fend for themselves. I personally would prefer retraining them for jobs in other energy sectors, such as solar, but I can tell you right now that the majority is not going to be ok with paying higher taxes to pay for the retraining of coal miners and the many employees in other idustries which are going to see massive layoffs in the coming decades due to increased automation among other issues. The government needs to look out for these people, they have to either create new jobs for them or pay to retrain them to find other jobs, they can't just throw them to the wolves; I'm not ok with it and I'm sure many other Americans aren't ok with it either.