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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Sonic Forces Switch ver. wll be 720p / 30fps on Docked and Undocked

Nuvendil on 10 October 2017
Hiku said:
Shikamo said:

while the graphics run at 30 frames per second, the controls run at 60.

What does this even mean? Control response tends to be only a few miliseconds. For example, Street Fighter V runs at 60fps, and control input delay is 6 frames. Meaning that 6 frames after you press a button, the character will react.

It means the game is rendering 30fps but the control inputs are being pinged at a frequency equivalent to a 60fps game.  So it will register inputs between frames, giving you latency levels comparable to a 60fps game even though the visuals are being displayed at 30fps.



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curl-6 on 10 October 2017
Hiku said:
Nuvendil said:

It means the game is rendering 30fps but the control inputs are being pinged at a frequency equivalent to a 60fps game.  So it will register inputs between frames, giving you latency levels comparable to a 60fps game even though the visuals are being displayed at 30fps.

If I understand correctly, that makes a difference of only 1 frame?
Because 30fps is essentially skipping every other frame compared to 60fps.
So if you would input a command during one of those skipped frames, it would not register until the next frame.

No, that's the exact opposite of what it means; the command will be registered immediately instead of waiting until the next frame arrives on screen.



curl-6 on 10 October 2017
Hiku said:
curl-6 said:

No, that's the exact opposite of what it means; the command will be registered immediately instead of waiting until the next frame arrives on screen.

I know, I was talking about how it normally works for a 30 fps game. I'll clarify that. I was just asking if this makes a difference of 1 frame or not, and explaining why.

But even if this is the case, I still don't quite get it. If I input a command  (Jump) during a skipped frame in Sonic Forces on Switch, how is the next frame rendered on screen any differently than it otherwise would have been? Will the next frame skip the first frame of animation for Sonic's movement and start on the second frame?

Normally during a 30fps game, if you input a command on a skipped frame you will see nothing during that frame. For the next frame you'll see the 1st frame of Sonic's jump animation. Then nothing for the second frame. Then on the third frame you'll see the second frame of sonic's jump animation. Then nothing on the fouth frame. And do on.
But in this case, we won't see the first frame of Sonic's jump animation, but we'll start at the second frame of his jump animation instead?

Input lag in a 30fps game can actually be over 100ms, more than 1/10th of a second or as much as 3/4 frames or more, between pressing the button and the action beginning. With 60Hz controller polling that can be cut down to less than 40ms, or about 1 frame.



curl-6 on 10 October 2017
Hiku said:
curl-6 said:

Input lag in a 30fps game can actually be over 100ms, more than 1/10th of a second or as much as 3 or even 4 frames, between pressing the button and the action beginning. With 60Hz controller polling that can be cut down to less than 40ms, or about 1 frame.

3 or 4 frames of input lag sounds pretty good though. o.o
Sounds like I had the right idea then. But I never knew that input delay is generally affected by the fps until I read this topic.

It's one of those things that varies per person; some people would cringe in horror at the thought of 100ms controller latency, others wouldn't even notice anything amiss.

But yeah, a lot of things can affect input delay and one of the biggest factors in how many times per second the controller is polled, which in a lot (but not all) games is tied to the framerate.



Nuvendil on 10 October 2017
curl-6 said:
Hiku said:

3 or 4 frames of input lag sounds pretty good though. o.o
Sounds like I had the right idea then. But I never knew that input delay is generally affected by the fps until I read this topic.

It's one of those things that varies per person; some people would cringe in horror at the thought of 100ms controller latency, others wouldn't even notice anything amiss.

But yeah, a lot of things can affect input delay and one of the biggest factors in how many times per second the controller is polled, which in a lot (but not all) games is tied to the framerate.

It also depends on the game.  If a game has no actions that demand fast reactions, the difference may mean nothing.  Skyrim and Fallout by BGS comes to mind.  Turn based games obviously.  Xenoblade series as well.  None of those need rapid responses so many people who prefer 60fps may not notice the absence.  But pop in Bayonetta 2 or God of War, and that's a different story.



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curl-6 on 10 October 2017
Nuvendil said:
curl-6 said:

It's one of those things that varies per person; some people would cringe in horror at the thought of 100ms controller latency, others wouldn't even notice anything amiss.

But yeah, a lot of things can affect input delay and one of the biggest factors in how many times per second the controller is polled, which in a lot (but not all) games is tied to the framerate.

It also depends on the game.  If a game has no actions that demand fast reactions, the difference may mean nothing.  Skyrim and Fallout by BGS comes to mind.  Turn based games obviously.  Xenoblade series as well.  None of those need rapid responses so many people who prefer 60fps may not notice the absence.  But pop in Bayonetta 2 or God of War, and that's a different story.

Yeah pretty much. 30fps in Xenoblade felt fine. 30fps in the Plaza in Splatoon 2 compared to the locked 60fps of actual gameplay feels like moving through molasses while my eyeballs have a seizure.



poroporo on 11 October 2017
mZuzek said:
poroporo said:

I bought a Switch for this.

Oh dear god. My condolences.

Was referring to the post above mine. I bought a switch for Odyssey, not Forces.

Now everyone will think I'm insane. :|