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Forums - Politics Discussion - St. Louis will drop minimum wage from $10 to $7.70.

specialk said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

The minimum wage should be whatever it costs to pay a single person's rent, food, phone bill, car insurance, gasoline, car payment and gym fee, while living in a studio apartment. Take the total amount of all those things find the average and add $200 just for good measure. Then divide by 40. There's your unofficial minimum wage.

Also there hasn't been a federal minimum wage increase since 2009, and before that it was something like 6.50 an hour. $7.25 an hour only gets you about $986 a month at full time. Rent for most studio apartments is $500-$700 alone. Should people live off cereal, have no phone, no car, and work 40 hours a week? That's 3rd world country conditions.

Also, all those corporate jobs that force you to work 60 hours a week for "salaried" should go out of business. That's just another way to pay below minimum.

I agree that we need to do a lot more to help the working poor, but I disagree with the bolded.

I feel like the idea that everyone needs to have their own place (no family, no roommates) and everyone needs their own car (no carpooling, no public transit) is a pretty America-centric idea. 

Yeah it is central to America. But let's be real. The northern half of America is too cold in the winter to walk or bike to work, and public transit isn't exactly the best here. I mean, are you really willing to wait on a bus for two hours just to get ten miles to your job? That's how slow public transit is here in america, in some cities. 



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VGPolyglot said:
I see a lot of people say how there'll be businesses that go bust if they have to pay their workers a higher wage, but the question is, is that really a bad thing? I'm sure there were businesses that relied on slavery that went bust too once it was abolished, should we have kept slavery legal to ensure that didn't happen?

In my opinion the minimum wage of 7-8$ is affordable for a single individual. Certainly not for supporting a family - which then raises the question why anyone would pursue supporting a family given those wages.

What I don't want to see if the disciminate application of minimum wage laws where certain industries get higher wages, like fast food industries, and then others dont: https://labor.ny.gov/formsdocs/factsheets/pdfs/p716.pdf This is bullshit if you ask me.

Minimum wage should naturally increase over time due to inflation, but if companies are struggling I can certainly see why adding few more workers for small sized business could have a significant impact.



The minimum wage should be zero. There simply is no sense in setting one at all. If a job doesn't pay enough, don't take it. If a business can't get the workers they need, they'll pay more. Its as simple as that.



Razeak said:
VGPolyglot said:
I see a lot of people say how there'll be businesses that go bust if they have to pay their workers a higher wage, but the question is, is that really a bad thing? I'm sure there were businesses that relied on slavery that went bust too once it was abolished, should we have kept slavery legal to ensure that didn't happen?

The employees have a choice of other employment or entitlements. They aren't slaves. The comparison doesn't work because no force is used against them and no one owns them.

There are more people looking for work than there is work that's available, which means that many people will be fighting for work and will be worried about not finding employment, so I guess they are not forced in the traditional sense, but the circumstances don't leave many options.



sundin13 said:
Razeak said:

The employees have a choice of other employment or entitlements. They aren't slaves. The comparison doesn't work because no force is used against them and no one owns them.

In a time when people looking for jobs outnumber the amount of available jobs, the force that motivates people is the fact that menial wages are better than no wages. For a system without minimum wage to work, there needs to be a surplus of jobs which have to compete for laborers to drive wages upwards. Otherwise, the forces of supply and demand drive wages downwards until you find the person who is willing to work for the least amount of money. 

That doesn't mean that higher minimum wage is better, it means that a middle ground should be reached which provides reasonable wages leading to reasonable costs for companies. Going too far on either end is potentially damaging. 

I can agree with a lot of this, but it's still not slave. If there was no one to work for, you would still have to produce some sort of labor to survive. Get rid of it all and this won't change. I agree there are some scumbag employers (and employees). 

 

A minimum wage is fine I think, but as you say, there has to be a medium. $3.00 more than the national minimum wage may not be a medium and doubling it certainly isn't.



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I live in south Florida..... making around 18 an hour..... and I'm basically in mega debt sustaining car insurance, cell phone bills, food, and health insurance.... altogether it's an easy near a grand a month in bills, and that doesn't include any school expenses and the tax u get for using the highway......



 

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Razeak said:

I can agree with a lot of this, but it's still not slave. If there was no one to work for, you would still have to produce some sort of labor to survive. Get rid of it all and this won't change. I agree there are some scumbag employers (and employees). 

A minimum wage is fine I think, but as you say, there has to be a medium. $3.00 more than the national minimum wage may not be a medium and doubling it certainly isn't.

I do think that discussion of the minimum wage should focus pretty much exclusively on where the number should be set. First of all, wherever it is set I think it should be locked to inflation and vary based on cost of living. After that, I personally think around $9/10 makes sense.

I've read through the CBO report on the effects of raising the minimum wage (from 2014 when this was proposed) and while some would lose their jobs (500,000 for a $10.10 federal minimum), many more would see an increase in wages (16.5 million directly and more indirectly). We would see an increase in wages of $5billion (or 3%) for people below the poverty line, raising 900,000 people above that line.

I also think that when it comes to employment, the biggest problem right now is not unemployment but poor employment. Unemployment numbers are pretty darn low and are pretty much in free fall so I think we should largely shift from reducing unemployment to increasing the quality of employment so I think now is as good a time as ever to increase the minimum wage.

https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/113th-congress-2013-2014/reports/44995-MinimumWage_OneColumn.pdf



NintendoPie said:
VGPolyglot said:

Yes, they're two different forms of exploitation.

So, abolish minimum wage and allow businesses to decide worker's pay, then? Raising the minimum wage doesn't mean there's no longer a minimum wage.

The minimum wage is exactly that a minimum it's a base line, it job is to give workers a living wage it also means that you have less pressure on government welfare because lowering it means you have less incentive to look for work because if you factor in the loss of govt subsidies on top of what ever unemployment benifit you get  can make it not financially worth while , many small businesses close and open every day and many other factors play a bigger role than minimum wage because it's not like your the only one paying it , the problem to me seems to be that where not talking about a national minimum adult wage that 's what we have in Australia around 18/ 19 dollars an hour being national means every one's on the same page and places like macdonalds can still add to their huge profits while employing juniors.



Research shows Video games  help make you smarter, so why am I an idiot

People don't realize that by paying people a decent wage they will spend it and generate more business and jobs, far more than the wealthy that tend to spend far less as a percentage of their own earnings

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wAa9DqHZtM - Asher Edelman (Concept: Velocity of money)



SpokenTruth said:

This guy runs a mid-high end restaurant that sells a $32 scallops meal and he's paying his employees minimum wage?

Also, This is why he's losing money. A 50% reduction in revenue, not a $92 per week pay increase for a couple of employees.
http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/10/16/washington-avenue-resturant-group-sounding-warning-about-lack-of-business/

The other thing is with a fine dining resturant you are not going to hire kids. You want some what responsible young adults or adults to deal with customers.  How can he charge so much for food and pay sweet fuck all to people who probably have their own kids.

Perhaps he shoudl ahve moved with the times sand went into that new ballpark village.