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Forums - Nintendo - Myth: Nintendo needs to have big surprises at E3 or they're doomed

DélioPT said:
Miyamotoo said:

But point is that itsn PR speech, all of their games that they were shown in January event will be relased this year. Of Course they could show some 2018. games. In January 2013. E3 2013. and E3 2014. they showed games in front because Wii U was doing terrible and they wanted to gave reason to people to buy Wii U and that Wii U start selling, but they dont need to that with Switch.

"Nintendo hasn't shown that they will be able to keep that momentum, not in terms of quality, but also in terms of quantity." You basically don't have any evidence for such a claim, actually all is showing they know what are doing and that they will keep momentumOf Course that Nintendo showed they can keep momentum, 3 months after launch Switch is still selling great and they can't keep up with demand, that wanst case with GC. And Nintendo very clever scheduled their games so they have one bigger game every month, next month we are getting Splatoon 2 that is big systeme seller game. They almost certain have similar plan for next year too, its crazy to think just because Nintendo did not showed or want still show any 2018. game that they don't have anything for 2018.

No, those games are not "i want it to be true" but games that realistically we can easily see next year based on infos when last games were done buy Nintendo teams. Also most of them were already rumored.

Well bigger instal base could also bring some heavyweights. Even if doesn't bring heavyweights doesn't matter, DS, Wii and 3DS also didnt had most of heavyweights and still have great sales.

I wrote after SNES.

We will see, this is different because you have handheld and home console game in one.

It's PR speech when, not having games to show, they decide to change the way they approach E3. Strange coincidence!
Up until 2014 they acted this way: show what's coming this year and show what's coming next year.
So, yes, that new way of thinking WAS PR spin to sugar coat the (bad) truth: no games.

"You basically don't have any evidence for such a claim."
So, the lack of announced games for 2018, the clear intention of not revealing their 2018 plans is not enough for you?
Tell me what has been announced and if those are AAA Nintendo games or smaller Nintendo franchises. 'Cause i only know of Fire Emblem.

 

I'm not claiming they have nothing for 2018. What i'm "claiming" - and claimed in our last conversation - is that a) they have only announced Fire Emblem and b) they have shown zero intent in hyping people for 2018.
And if you think that they don't need to hype people because Switch is doing so well, then why do Sony and MS hype consumers? Specially, Sony. They have sold so much, why bother with hyping the following year?


DS and Wii had a new type of consumers that Nintendo can't and won't, as far as we know, regain them.
3DS sold well but compared to the last "normal" handheld, it sold less despite being in the market for, what, double the time?
Heavyweights are important. They make or break consoles (in normal circumstances).
Nintendo would kill for those games in their consoles!

Yes, it's different, but so far i haven't seen clear signs that 3rd parties see it that way.

Yes, "strange coincidence". :D  Of Course it's not coincidence, Nintendo before also had games that showed and released in same year, even in in that 2013. with SM3DW, and if it's just coincidence why we still didn't saw just one 2018. game!? Still not showing 2018. games and focus on 2017. games on E3 is evidence that they want much less time between announcement and release, not that they dont have any 2018. games (lol). Thinking that they didn't show any 2018. game because they nothing to show is totaly crazy, 2018. will come in 7 months and of course they have games for 1st half of 2018. that are nearly completed and that could be easily be shown.

 

Again, Sony/MS and Nintendo have different approaches, Sony or MS almost never announced and release game in same year. Nintendo don't want to talk about games that will be out in 2-3 years like Sony, MS or most of 3rd parties, they are focusing on games that will be out in near future. Switch is still selling great and Nintendo still cant keep up with demand, they don't need yet to hype people about 2018. because rest of 2017. is very strong and they want to hype them first for this year games. They will start hyping people about 2018. games when we are getting closer to 2018. Recent example of that Nintendo approach, Pokemon Tournament DX is announced last week and it will be out in just 3 months, we also having almost sure thing that Mario x Rabbids will be shown at E3 with release just 2-3 months later.

 

It doesnt matter, point is that they all sold great without heavyweights, that could easily be case for Switch also. Heavyweights are important if you have classic console like Sony or MS, they are not so important for Nintendo consoles because huge majority is buying Nintendo console for 1st party games, especially different type of consoles like Switch. Of Course it's better to have them in any case, but Switch can easily sell great even without them same like Wii, DS and 3DS.

Switch is just released recently so you need time to see sales, and still dont have some big 3rd party games available, but from what we saw most available 3rd party games are for now selling pretty good.



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Miyamotoo said:

[...]

Again, Sony/MS and Nintendo have different approaches, Sony or MS almost never announced and release game in same year. Nintendo don't want to talk about games that will be out in 2-3 years like Sony, MS or most of 3rd parties, they are focusing on games that will be out in near future. Switch is still selling great and Nintendo still cant keep up with demand, they don't need yet to hype people about 2018. because rest of 2017. is very strong and they want to hype them first for this year games. They will start hyping people about 2018. games when we are getting closer to 2018. Recent example of that Nintendo approach, Pokemon Tournament DX is announced last week and it will be out in just 3 months, we also having almost sure thing that Mario x Rabbids will be shown at E3 with release just 2-3 months later.

 

It doesnt matter, point is that they all sold great without heavyweights, that could easily be case for Switch also. Heavyweights are important if you have classic console like Sony or MS, they are not so important for Nintendo consoles because huge majority is buying Nintendo console for 1st party games, especially different type of consoles like Switch. Of Course it's better to have them in any case, but Switch can easily sell great even without them same like Wii, DS and 3DS.

Switch is just released recently so you need time to see sales, and still dont have some big 3rd party games available, but from what we saw most available 3rd party games are for now selling pretty good.

This. Current successful games, a steady release of new ones and HW demand that exceeds production are raising hype and keeping it high, this way Switch will be ready for 2018 in a very smooth way, and already with a user base larger than predicted, no need to tell users to wait for the future when the present is already excellent. Nothing excludes announcements for 2018 games, but Ninty will clearly send the messages that NOW is already the right moment to buy a Switch, if you can find one, of course.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


Miyamotoo said:
DélioPT said:

 

 

Yes, "strange coincidence". :D  Of Course it's not coincidence, Nintendo before also had games that showed and released in same year, even in in that 2013. with SM3DW, and if it's just coincidence why we still didn't saw just one 2018. game!? Still not showing 2018. games and focus on 2017. games on E3 is evidence that they want much more less time between announcement and release, not that they dont have any 2018. games (lol). Thinking that they didn't show any 2018. game because they nothing to show is totaly crazy, 2018. will come in 7 months and of course they have games for 1st half of 2018. that are nearly completed and that could be easily be shown.

 

Again, Sony/MS and Nintendo have different approaches, Sony or MS almost never announced and release game in same year. Nintendo don't want to talk about games that will be out in 2-3 years like Sony, MS or most of 3rd parties, they are focusing on games that will be out in near future. Switch is still selling great and Nintendo still cant keep up with demand, they don't need yet to hype people about 2018. because rest of 2017. is very strong and they want to hype them first for this year games. They will start hyping people about 2018. games when we are getting closer to 2018. Recent example of that Nintendo approach, Pokemon Tournament DX is announced last week and it will be out in just 3 months, we also having almost sure thing that Mario x Rabbids will be shown at E3 with release just 2-3 months later.

 

It doesnt matter, point is that they all sold great without heavyweights, that could easily be case for Switch also. Heavyweights are important if you have classic console like Sony or MS, they are not so important for Nintendo consoles because huge majority is buying Nintendo console for 1st party games, especially different type of consoles like Switch. Of Course it's better to have them in any case, but Switch can easily sell great even without them same like Wii, DS and 3DS.

Switch is just released recently so you need time to see sales, and still dont have some big 3rd party games available, but from what we saw most available 3rd party games are for now selling pretty good.

First, i never implied they have nothing for 2018. Second, i never implied that 2018 won't be as good as 2017.
Like in our past conversation, i am merely asking questions because Nintendo' strategy hasn't answered those questions.

"games on E3 is evidence that they want much more less time between announcement and release"
It's not one or two games (Pokken and Rabbids) that will make my your view right.

"they don't need yet to hype people about 2018. because rest of 2017. is very strong and they want to hype them first for this year games"
It's a coincidence that Nintendo decided to plan things this way right when they had no games to show for...
Why do companies not follow this route aswell? Why don't Sony and MS spend their E3s just hyping their games coming in the current year and announce their plans for the following year at a different date? Why?

So, you are ignoring how Wii and DS sold so well because a different market that just doesn't exist now? Also, you realise how badly 3DS compares to GBA, right?
Their home console segment went south - and fast - and no 1st party efforts saved it; Handheld was going that same way - even if things weren't so bad.

Gamers want a certain type of games and Sony and MS are willing to pay for some extras or publishing rights because they are too valuable.
1st party Nintendo games are not the priority anymore.

What 3rd party games are selling well?
I've only read about Bomberman and Neo-geo games.



Pavolink said:
People tends to forget 2 things:

1. Nintendo obliterated the competition last year with a single game.

2. That game was Zelda BotW. The best game since OoT. But Nintendo is not always going to have Zelda at E3.

Let's not sell Super Mario Odyssey short here. Mario is still Mario, the most recognizable figure in the gaming industry and one of the most recognizable beyond gaming. Odyssey is a return to the sandbox style of 64 and Sunshine. 3D Mario, and mainline Mario in general, has garnered critical praise. It's reveal at the Switch presentation has more YouTube views than Zelda BoTW's story and E3 2016 trailer.



DélioPT said:
Miyamotoo said:

Yes, "strange coincidence". :D  Of Course it's not coincidence, Nintendo before also had games that showed and released in same year, even in in that 2013. with SM3DW, and if it's just coincidence why we still didn't saw just one 2018. game!? Still not showing 2018. games and focus on 2017. games on E3 is evidence that they want much more less time between announcement and release, not that they dont have any 2018. games (lol). Thinking that they didn't show any 2018. game because they nothing to show is totaly crazy, 2018. will come in 7 months and of course they have games for 1st half of 2018. that are nearly completed and that could be easily be shown.

 

Again, Sony/MS and Nintendo have different approaches, Sony or MS almost never announced and release game in same year. Nintendo don't want to talk about games that will be out in 2-3 years like Sony, MS or most of 3rd parties, they are focusing on games that will be out in near future. Switch is still selling great and Nintendo still cant keep up with demand, they don't need yet to hype people about 2018. because rest of 2017. is very strong and they want to hype them first for this year games. They will start hyping people about 2018. games when we are getting closer to 2018. Recent example of that Nintendo approach, Pokemon Tournament DX is announced last week and it will be out in just 3 months, we also having almost sure thing that Mario x Rabbids will be shown at E3 with release just 2-3 months later.

 

It doesnt matter, point is that they all sold great without heavyweights, that could easily be case for Switch also. Heavyweights are important if you have classic console like Sony or MS, they are not so important for Nintendo consoles because huge majority is buying Nintendo console for 1st party games, especially different type of consoles like Switch. Of Course it's better to have them in any case, but Switch can easily sell great even without them same like Wii, DS and 3DS.

Switch is just released recently so you need time to see sales, and still dont have some big 3rd party games available, but from what we saw most available 3rd party games are for now selling pretty good.

First, i never implied they have nothing for 2018. Second, i never implied that 2018 won't be as good as 2017.
Like in our past conversation, i am merely asking questions because Nintendo' strategy hasn't answered those questions.

"games on E3 is evidence that they want much more less time between announcement and release"
It's not one or two games (Pokken and Rabbids) that will make my your view right.

 

"they don't need yet to hype people about 2018. because rest of 2017. is very strong and they want to hype them first for this year games"
It's a coincidence that Nintendo decided to plan things this way right when they had no games to show for...
Why do companies not follow this route aswell? Why don't Sony and MS spend their E3s just hyping their games coming in the current year and announce their plans for the following year at a different date? Why?

So, you are ignoring how Wii and DS sold so well because a different market that just doesn't exist now? Also, you realise how badly 3DS compares to GBA, right?
Their home console segment went south - and fast - and no 1st party efforts saved it; Handheld was going that same way - even if things weren't so bad.

Gamers want a certain type of games and Sony and MS are willing to pay for some extras or publishing rights because they are too valuable.
1st party Nintendo games are not the priority anymore.

What 3rd party games are selling well?
I've only read about Bomberman and Neo-geo games.

So why do you than think Nintendo dont talk about 2018. games yet, why do you think in January event they announce only games that will be released this year, why they choose focus on 2017. games on E3, why they announced Pokken Tournament only 3 months before launch and they wil do same thing for Mario Rabbids!? All that is evidence that they want to have much less time between announcement and launch, its so obvious and clear.

 

Again, Nintendo always in some degree done that (for instance SM3DW is announced and launched in same year, they done that with last few Pokemons), but Sony and MS never hadn't done that. They decided to go with that plan fully because now they will have steady flow of good and strong games without droughts, but for instance if Switch sold bad until now probably Nintendo would show on E3 more 2018. than they will know when they can't keep up with demand.

"Why do companies not follow this route aswell?" Because Sony and MS operating different compared to Nintendo, that's clear like day. Why Nintendo announced games just few months before launch, why Nintendo has Nintendo Directs, why Nintendo has Digital Event on E3 instead live conference, why Nintendo showed Switch just 5 months before launch and had Switch conference only 2 months before launch, why Nintendo released hybrid...because they have different approach and they managing things different compared to Sony and MS. Is really so hard to accept that, that Nintendo is not Sony and that they are quite different!?

 

I don't ignoring anything, Wii, DS and 3DS sold great beauce what they are and beasuse strong 1st party games, same will be for Switch, and actual current sales are telling us exactly that. Fact is that 3DS sold less than DS and GBA is normal because in DS and GBA age we didn't had smartphone/tablet gaming that eat big part of handheld gaming, and actually 3DS sales are huge success because 3DS was waiting aging incredible popular smartphone/tablet gaming.

When we talk about Nintendo hardware, 1st party games are always easily bigest reason why people are buying Nintendo hardware compared to Sony or MS consoles, even current Switch sales proves that.

Yes Bomberman, but Indies haw solid sales if we look best selling Switch eShop games.

 

At end, you need to accept that Nintendo is not Sony, that they are manging most of things totally differently, they have different approaches and goals.



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gameplay of xeno2 and mario oedipus is sufficient already for most people....
i for one would buy switch for xeno2 itself...

now if they have surprises for like for example.... proper metroid game... that would be great... and would be great bonus...

pokemon stars? yeah good luck buying a switch

i think it will be mostly port like tropical freeze or pikmin if there is no plan yet for a sequel



 

Agreed.

Nintendo can spin up massive hype practically anytime they really need to. In fact it's proving useful for them to pace that effort throughout the year rather than put all their eggs in the E3 basket where they can easily be upshown already by the collective of Sony, MS, and even 3rd parties.

If all they do is an extensive look at a fantastic game like Mario Odyssey or Xenoblade 2 similar to BotW - I'm satisfied. Everything else is gravy.



I predict NX launches in 2017 - not 2016

I guess it's not necessary, but I'd still prefer some surprises myself.



NightlyPoe said:
DélioPT said:

I'm not claiming they have nothing for 2018. What i'm "claiming" - and claimed in our last conversation - is that a) they have only announced Fire Emblem and b) they have shown zero intent in hyping people for 2018.
And if you think that they don't need to hype people because Switch is doing so well, then why do Sony and MS hype consumers? Specially, Sony. They have sold so much, why bother with hyping the following year?

Are you asking why Nintendo does things differently?

Look, the Switch only had one game announced for it until it had less than 2 months until launch.  As late as October, Forbes kept running articles predicting that it wouldn't make its March launch, when it turned out to hit in early March because it seemed prepostrous that a system that still hadn't debuted would be out so soon.

The focus on games that are coming out imminently seems to be paying off.  Zelda's attachment rate is miraculous.  Mario Kart 8 is right up there.  Right now they're focusing on hyping up Arms and then they'll move right onto Splatoon.  Nintendo seems to have realized that constantly hyping the next big thing way down the line can be a good marketing strategy, but so can keeping your consumers focused on the here and now.  Teasing them with something they want and then hitting them with it immediately before they can be distracted by the next shiny object.

In that sense, 2018 is several marketing cycles away for Nintendo.  Yes, there needs to be a big fish out there somewhere, but right now that's Mario.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if sometime in October or November, they bring out Fire Emblem and give it an early-2018 release and that will be all until a huge Nintendo Direct in January where they announce half a dozen games, most of them coming out between March-July and announcing their flagship title for Autumn.

"The focus on games that are coming out imminently seems to be paying off."
What's paying off is the attractive concept, Zelda and M8... so far.

So, you believe that keeping your costumers in the dark is a good idea?
You also believe that the best way to gain new customers is also keeping them in the dark and not hyping their consoles or making people confident that, this time, they can buy a Nintendo console without second-thoughts?
I sincerely disagree.
Not only me, but if not everyone, pretty much everyone operates in a simple way: show what you have for this year and the next.

Either Nintendo struck gold in marketing strategy (software reveal planning) and nobody realised that or they are just way wrong.

I could speculate, but it would be just that, speculation.



Miyamotoo said:
DélioPT said:

 

So why do you than think Nintendo dont talk about 2018. games yet, why do you think in January event they announce only games that will be released this year, why they choose focus on 2017. games on E3, why they announced Pokken Tournament only 3 months before launch and they wil do same thing for Mario Rabbids!? All that is evidence that they want to have much less time between announcement and launch, its so obvious and clear.

 

Again, Nintendo always in some degree done that (for instance SM3DW is announced and launched in same year, they done that with last few Pokemons), but Sony and MS never hadn't done that. They decided to go with that plan fully because now they will have steady flow of good and strong games without droughts, but for instance if Switch sold bad until now probably Nintendo would show on E3 more 2018. than they will know when they can't keep up with demand.

"Why do companies not follow this route aswell?" Because Sony and MS operating different compared to Nintendo, that's clear like day. Why Nintendo announced games just few months before launch, why Nintendo has Nintendo Directs, why Nintendo has Digital Event on E3 instead live conference, why Nintendo showed Switch just 5 months before launch and had Switch conference only 2 months before launch, why Nintendo released hybrid...because they have different approach and they managing things different compared to Sony and MS. Is really so hard to accept that, that Nintendo is not Sony and that they are quite different!?

 

I don't ignoring anything, Wii, DS and 3DS sold great beauce what they are and beasuse strong 1st party games, same will be for Switch, and actual current sales are telling us exactly that. Fact is that 3DS sold less than DS and GBA is normal because in DS and GBA age we didn't had smartphone/tablet gaming that eat big part of handheld gaming, and actually 3DS sales are huge success because 3DS was waiting aging incredible popular smartphone/tablet gaming.

When we talk about Nintendo hardware, 1st party games are always easily bigest reason why people are buying Nintendo hardware compared to Sony or MS consoles, even current Switch sales proves that.

Yes Bomberman, but Indies haw solid sales if we look best selling Switch eShop games.

 

At end, you need to accept that Nintendo is not Sony, that they are manging most of things totally differently, they have different approaches and goals.

I don't know why they are not revealing more of their E3 plans and i never said it was because of this or that reason. I raised questions: is it because their strategy is wrongly planned; is it because they don't have a good 2018 and the best option was, like in recent history, focus on what you have and not on what you don't have?

I don't have an answer.
I may have reasons (recent past and no talk about 2018) to fear that the anwser is not what i want to hear.
What i won't do is close my eyes to the REASONS WHY they changed their strategy and not simply say they are different because they are different.

I mentioned SOny and MS, but i could have mentioned a ton of studios that go to E3 and act the same way.
NDs and Digital Events never stopped Nintendo from revealing stuff like they used to. You can't use that as an excuse. Nor can you bring a few games that change nothing.
I'm not talking about the type of HW or reveal > release timeframe. That's not what we are talking about, and being different in a certain aspect (or more) doesn't automatically say they are different in everything.

I wouldn't be so hasty in saying Switch will follow Wii's success.
3DS was also, for quite some time, ahead of DS and look at the difference now.
Your use of DS and Wii as examples of "we don't need heavyweights" is a bad example, because is something that can't be said today (only during that time).
And now, like before DS and Wii, you need it.
Thing is, when Nintendo stopped having those heavyweights, was the day they started losing marketshare.

I don't want Nintendo to be like everyone else, but there are reasons why they act differently. And it's those same reasons that i question.

And truth is, a lot of studios (if not all) reveal - like Nintendo did until it couldn't anymore - what's coming and what's to come.
The idea that Nintendo just decided, one day, out of the blue, that they were going to act differently, is something that makes me question why (answer: that coincidence!).