I think people are honestly going to start getting tired of graphics being the only new thing these two are bringing to table.

Once you get past PS4/XB1 IMO, you reach a level of graphical fidelity that is good enough for many people.

That's why PS4 Pro is not impressing consumers ... it's just the same games that look about the same, just shinier. Most people don't care. 

Not a lot of people are going to want to buy an entirely new TV just to get 4K graphics either, and I'll be honest the jump from 1080p to 4K is nowhere as noticable as the jump from square-box SDTV sets to thin HDTVs.  

I think Sony should sit back and wait. VR is far more interesting, work on developing that.

I would not be surprised if you hear nothing on PS5 until 2019 and no release until 2020.

You wont need a PS5 because Mark Cerny said the PS4 Pro is a 8.4tf beast with 16bit floats..

No need if the PS4 pro is more powerful than Scorpio judging from Sony.

You're entirely missing the point I think.

Microsoft's gig is to make the need for a distinct new console generation irrelevant. They're specifically trying to blunt Sony's strengths (regular well-designed and appealing new hardware with a strong (if inconsistent) library of exclusives, while playing to their own (compatibility, services across systems, subscription based entertainment).

They're not trying to best a future PS5. They're trying to make it irrelevant what the PS5 looks like.

Of course, whether they succeed is a completely different question.

Agreed. Sony has the generation locked in my eyes as far as console sales are concerned.

Still. Scorpio is the most powerful console ever.

Power constraints aren't really the main issue. Nor is cooling really. The technology has existed to solve both issues for a long time already.

The issue is cost. A 5 Billion transistor 28nm chip all those years ago was massive and expensive and had moderate yield levels.

By 2020, we should have Zen+ firmly entrenched in the market... But I think by then AMD will release it's successor to it's Cat cores.
Jaguar was actually replaced by Puma which in turn was replaced by Puma+ in 2015. So it's overdue... I think we are just waiting on spare Fab capacity and for fabbing at 14nm to be more cost effective for low-end chips.

The jump from the Playstation 3 to Playstation 4 was a 16x increase in RAM.
With stacked DRAM, there is the possibility for RAM capacities to explode over the next few years... But we will not be seeing the same kind of increase that we have historically had.

Also worthy to mention is that OS footprint wen't from 64MB~ last gen to to 4096MB~ on Scorpio... Which is a 64X increase in memory consumption.

Scorpio can also do half precision floating point, which means Scorpio is 12 Teraflops vs the Playstation 4 Pro's 8.4 Teraflops.

Half Precision Floating Point however cannot be used under every circumstance in rendering a game, it does come with caveats.

Besides, there is more to power than how many flops it has.

8GB HBM2 won't be enough. This is next-gen we are talking about, Scorpio is the pinnical of this gens technical achievements as far as consoles are concerned.

Plus Vega can use 100% of that HBM2 memory on graphics alone. A console can not, even if you move the OS onto a seperate DRAM package, not all that Ram can be used for graphics, the games codebase and datasets need to be somewhere.

I think you might be a little bit confused. Textures are mapped onto objects, they aren't bit-for-bit matched with a display.

I will agree to Scorpio being specifically "the most powerful console ever", the day it launches, and not a day sooner. Until then its still a work in progress.

XB most certainly gains some respect with this new hardware and its specs, as well as software, and they have the launch, plus rest of the gen to continue to gain even more.

Except graphics AREN'T the only thing these two are bringing.  They are also bringing great games. A lot of people like great games that also look great.  And the reason the PS4 Pro isn't burning up the charts, other than Sony doesn't seem to be supplying chains with more units, is because it isn't meant to.  I mean, maybe when it hits $199-$249, it'll start out selling a $149 PS4 S.  But, until then, it's just meant as a 2x upgrade for people who are interested in that sort of thing.  Most people, though, are happy spending less money and getting a system that plays the same games, just not quite as good.  Once the PS5 is announced, you'll see the excitement for new HW come back to the core market.

As for 4K TVs, those are already being purchased at a very good rate.  We already have ~15% of homes with 4K TVs in the US.  That will only grow as the prices continue to fall and Black Friday deals help push sales.  The same thing happened with 1080p TVs.  And the jump is very noticable when you have good 4K content displaying on it.

Then, 16GB it may very well be.

And, I guess I should have said higher res textures.  Still, my point stands.  We can always push it more.

I hope they reveal in 2019 and launch in September or earlier that year. Switch has shown that you'll have good launch sales especially with coming off of PS4. Then you'll get a SECOND big surge at the holidays instead of having both your surges combine. Get the launch out of the way in September then JUST when stock catches up BAM the holiday surge hits. You easily get a million more systems out by years end and get a huge start to your system by not having launch and holidays at once.

That actually is pretty smart.  Though, I think the best would be to launch it around March/April if they shoot for an earlier launch, at least in the US.  That's around the time people start getting their tax returns.  Then, all summer they can build up inventory for the holiday rush.

So, when do you think we'll start hearing rumors?

I think they will wait for even more technology 7nm or smaller transistors, a better stacked memory, 32 or 64gb, a generation or two after vega, etc.
The gerational power 8x jump on generations are not perceived as proportional to the visual jump, we need way, way more to justify a new generation these days.
People will compare to ps4 pro or scorpio, not to ps4. to handle a visual generational leap they have to go much over the traditional power leap.

meanwhile, a ps4 pro slim, a splimmer standard ps4, or even a portable/hybrid digital only 1080p screen ps4p.
I really cant see ps5 before 2021.