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Forums - Nintendo - Switch Revisions Are Basically Already Possible

NATO on 18 March 2017

Possibly but not in the first year; they'll have a fixed period of use for the part from nvidia as part of the contract for supply that they can't break even if for a different
part from the same supplier (in this case nvidia) based mainly on
Minimum order, lifetime use and overall pricing for the order.
Also I don't see them actually doing it, mainly because the release of the newer chip gives them wiggle room to renegotiate a cheaper price on tx1 when the minimum order is fulfilled and the contracts are updated, and lets face it, given the choice between higher profits and higher spec, Nintendo have to a fault gone with higher profits.



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Miyamotoo on 19 March 2017
Soundwave said:
Miyamotoo said:

Like wrote, fact is that 6.2 is already huge screen for handheld gaming console and huge difference compared to 3DS XLs 4.9" screen or any previous handheld.

You missing point, point of DS XL or 3DS XL is offer more expensive device in family, and you already have more expensive device in family with current Switch (dont forget that Switch is $300 and most likly we not having price cut this year), but they don't have more affordable Switch, and that will be priorite for Nintendo when 3DS dies, not to have more expansive Switch than current one.

Completely disagree, I am pretty confident we will not see Switch XL in next 3 years and that we definitely seeing Switch Mini/Pocket instead.

Who says a TX2 based Switch would be any more expenisve? 

Nintendo fans have funny ideas about hardware power and how hardware power must cost waaaaay more. That's not how things work. Costs scale over time and new technology replaces old technology. 

If it wasn't then use some common sense here, every new iPhone, which is updated every year and offers usually abou double the performance of the last model would cost twice as more. Except they don't. They usually cost basically the same price. 

So yes, sure, Nintendo could have a Switch in 2018 which is TX2 based and simply replaces the older model at the $299.99 price point. And there could be a cheaper one too at $249.99 (the smaller model with a smaller/lower quality screen) for example. 

Also why can't you have both? Nintendo released both a New 3DS and a New 3DS XL. Apple now releases iPhones in regular and Plus sized models. The reason is consumers *like* choice. Just because you want a smaller, cheaper model doesn't mean you are even in the majority of what people want in a Switch revision (in fact I suspect you are actually in the minority here). But that's ok, because people should have a choice.

And more Switch models is actually only natural because Switch is replacing Nintendo's entire hardware line, I think you are dead wrong if you are saying there's merely going to be only 1 revision in the next 3 years for the Switch and that's all the hardware Nintendo is basically going to have. I doubt it. You will see a lot of Switch models over the years IMO. Part and parcel because by going the hybrid route Nintendo is losing money from their core base that would buy a console and handheld in the past ... one way to recoup that is to have more hardware models for the current Switch and encourage more double dipping hardware purchases. 

Fact is that DSi XL was more expensive than DSi, 3DS XL more expensive than 3DS. Offourse that XL version would be more expansive than regular version.

I agree about more Switch models, but I dont see in any case XL version so soon beacsue there is no need for bigger and more expnasive Switch so soon, when fact is that Switch already has huge screen for handheld gaming console and huge difference compared to 3DS XLs 4.9" screen or any previous handheld, and when Switch already has price of $300. Compared to that when 3DS XL was launch had regular 3DS had screen of just 3.5" and regular 3DS had price point of $170, so totally made sense to release so fast bigger and more expansive 3DS, but there is no same point with Switch because like I wrote Switch already has big screen and already has much higher price point. Nintendo could make XL in 2018. but there is no or point for that, but they will definitely need smaller, cheaper Switch when 3DS dies.

 

Cobretti2 said:
Soundwave said:

Who says a TX2 based Switch would be any more expenisve? 

Nintendo fans have funny ideas about hardware power and how hardware power must cost waaaaay more. That's not how things work. Costs scale over time and new technology replaces old technology. 

If it wasn't then use some common sense here, every new iPhone, which is updated every year and offers usually abou double the performance of the last model would cost twice as more. Except they don't. They usually cost basically the same price. 

So yes, sure, Nintendo could have a Switch in 2018 which is TX2 based and simply replaces the older model at the $299.99 price point. And there could be a cheaper one too at $249.99 (the smaller model with a smaller/lower quality screen) for example. 

Also why can't you have both? Nintendo released both a New 3DS and a New 3DS XL. Apple now releases iPhones in regular and Plus sized models. The reason is consumers *like* choice. Just because you want a smaller, cheaper model doesn't mean you are even in the majority of what people want in a Switch revision (in fact I suspect you are actually in the minority here). But that's ok, because people should have a choice.

And more Switch models is actually only natural because Switch is replacing Nintendo's entire hardware line, I think you are dead wrong if you are saying there's merely going to be only 1 revision in the next 3 years for the Switch and that's all the hardware Nintendo is basically going to have. I doubt it. You will see a lot of Switch models over the years IMO. Part and parcel because by going the hybrid route Nintendo is losing money from their core base that would buy a console and handheld in the past ... one way to recoup that is to have more hardware models for the current Switch and encourage more double dipping hardware purchases. 

TBH Nvidia produced so many TX1 chips that it wouln't suprise me that the come up with some sort of deal with Nintendo to use them first at a very heavily discounted price to move them all first before a revision. 

Also this, we had infos that Nvidia gave great offer Nintendo with X1 chips and that was one of reason why Nintendo went with Nvidia for Switch, maybe we talking about tens of millions X1 chips for Switch.

Most likly Nintendo in one point will move on Tegra X2, but I dont see that in next year, just maybe at end of next year but just for smaller/cheaper Switch while they will continue using X1 chips for current Switch model.



DélioPT on 19 March 2017
Miyamotoo said:
DélioPT said:

 

"Why do you think Nintendo needs a more affordable Switch"!?

Because Nintendo always had on market products at several price points (just look last year, from 2DS to Wii U, basicly from $80 to $300 price point), and with Switch they will after 3DS dies have only one product that not have affordable price, you will defiantly see multiply devaices like part of Switch family.

Yes, there is no need for Pro and actually more expensive price Switch from market standpoint, they first need more affordable version of Switch not more expensive. We will have at some point more stronger Switch, if that will Switch 2 or Switch Pro, hard to tell, but I dont see that in next 3 years in any case. 

It's obvious that Nintendo doesn't care about power of PS/Xbox consoles.

Theyalways had 2 products, yes. But the price point difference was a result of that.

And if you have been reading Nintendo's comments, they aren't developing a HH.

If they lower the price of the Switch to 269, for example, and introduce a Switch Pro at 329, what's the problem with that? Different versions with different price tags. And with time the price will go down a bit more.
The 3DS price was lower and got even lower because it was old tech. Switch is not that old.

It's true that Nintendo isn't going to fight a power war, but they can't be oblivious to what Sony and MS bring to the market because they need to be competitive and give consumers 3rd party games that are good when compared to the better versions.
I doubt people would like to pay bare bone versions of multiplats.



archer9234 on 19 March 2017

I personally don't care if they make multiple variants. Just get games I want. And I'd like a version that is just a home console. Remove the screen. And I'll get one.



Jaicee on 19 March 2017
celador said:
that and the wait for software is why i'm not diving in any time soon

as soon as the first revision/upgrade drops is when I get the Switch

Why would they revise hardware that's already selling big time as things are? I think they'll wait quite a while before doing any revisions like that.

I've been told that I'm a sucker for buying a Switch so early, given the dirth of games currently available for it and whatnot. I think not! I mean by the summer you're going to have not only Breath of the Wild and 1-2 Switch and whatnot out, but also Arms, Splatoon 2, and more, and the system is still going to probably be out of stock. I'd rather have the system now and wait for the software than wait for the software only to discover that I can't get the hardware because it's sold out! It's all about planning.



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Cobretti2 on 19 March 2017
Soundwave said:
Cobretti2 said:

TBH Nvidia produced so many TX1 chips that it wouln't suprise me that the come up with some sort of deal with Nintendo to use them first at a very heavily discounted price to move them all first before a revision. 

Even when the TX1 first came out though it was in cheap devices ... $199.99 US Sheild console was available .... two years ago. TX2 is just the natural newer version of that chip, it's not going to cost like 2x as much, just like Apple doesn't pay magically double for the new GPU in every iPhone they buy, even though iPhone's generally double in horsepower every year. 

That's just the natural progression of mobile chips, this is also new territory for Nintendo because the Switch chipset basically has no customizations really. So Nintendo can just keep use the Tegra line of chips, much like Apple does with PowerVR chips for every generation of iPhone and iPad. It's for the best really, Nintendo's overly customized chipsets with weird IBM CPUs and eDRAM pools and exotic memory types and all that wasn't really benefitting the games and it made revising the chip or dropping the price problematic because no one else but Nintendo was using that tech. 

It also means Nintendo has options now ... if they wanted to do this in the past and their chip was more custom, redesigning the chip for whatever reason cost money because it was a custom design only they would use. The way it is now, Nvidia is making these chips (Tegra X2 for example) anyway, so Nintendo can just let them do all the R&D and use their chip basically whenever they feel like. 

I agree that the price difference isn't much. What I am getting at is perhaps Nintendo wanted to go TX2 but NVIDIA cut them such a good deal to use up their TX1 first, and by good I mean dump them (i.e. at cost to manufacture price) to get rid of them, so Nintendo probably though woo extra $20 profit per console. 



 

 

celador on 19 March 2017
Jaicee said:
celador said:
that and the wait for software is why i'm not diving in any time soon

as soon as the first revision/upgrade drops is when I get the Switch

Why would they revise hardware that's already selling big time as things are? I think they'll wait quite a while before doing any revisions like that.

I've been told that I'm a sucker for buying a Switch so early, given the dirth of games currently available for it and whatnot. I think not! I mean by the summer you're going to have not only Breath of the Wild and 1-2 Switch and whatnot out, but also Arms, Splatoon 2, and more, and the system is still going to probably be out of stock. I'd rather have the system now and wait for the software than wait for the software only to discover that I can't get the hardware because it's sold out! It's all about planning.

All of the console makers have made or are making revisions now

As for it's sales, it isn't selling bit time as things are in any meaningful way yet. It has had a good launch, it is yet to be seen how well it will do longterm, even if Nintendo are more confident in it now then they were before. And if it does sell well, that is still no reason not to make a revison



Miyamotoo on 19 March 2017
DélioPT said:
Miyamotoo said:

"Why do you think Nintendo needs a more affordable Switch"!?

Because Nintendo always had on market products at several price points (just look last year, from 2DS to Wii U, basicly from $80 to $300 price point), and with Switch they will after 3DS dies have only one product that not have affordable price, you will defiantly see multiply devaices like part of Switch family.

Yes, there is no need for Pro and actually more expensive price Switch from market standpoint, they first need more affordable version of Switch not more expensive. We will have at some point more stronger Switch, if that will Switch 2 or Switch Pro, hard to tell, but I dont see that in next 3 years in any case. 

It's obvious that Nintendo doesn't care about power of PS/Xbox consoles.

Theyalways had 2 products, yes. But the price point difference was a result of that.

And if you have been reading Nintendo's comments, they aren't developing a HH.

If they lower the price of the Switch to 269, for example, and introduce a Switch Pro at 329, what's the problem with that? Different versions with different price tags. And with time the price will go down a bit more.
The 3DS price was lower and got even lower because it was old tech. Switch is not that old.

It's true that Nintendo isn't going to fight a power war, but they can't be oblivious to what Sony and MS bring to the market because they need to be competitive and give consumers 3rd party games that are good when compared to the better versions.
I doubt people would like to pay bare bone versions of multiplats.

Actualy they usual have more products than 2, just look at last year, Wii U at $300, New 3DS XL at $199, New 3DS at around $150 and 2DS at $100.That's basically 4 price points, from $100 to 300.

Dont look to much in Nintendo PR talk, they also said that Switch isnt successor to 3DS, but you will see how they changing their song when 3DS dies.

Having just $270 and $330 price point would be bad for Nintendo because for first time they wouldn't have in generation lower price point ($150-200). They will certainly work to have Switch at lower price, and most logical and most certain thing would be to release Switch Mini/Pocket for just handheld playing after 3DS dies for around $200, and I am certain they will do exatly that.

You do realise that Wii was 20-30x times less powerful and still sold better than PS3/Xbox360. If Switch sales good, 3rd parties will port their games to Switch despite power difference, what Switch will offer compared to PS4/XB1/Pro/Scorpio is play on go.



Soundwave on 19 March 2017
Miyamotoo said:
DélioPT said:

Theyalways had 2 products, yes. But the price point difference was a result of that.

And if you have been reading Nintendo's comments, they aren't developing a HH.

If they lower the price of the Switch to 269, for example, and introduce a Switch Pro at 329, what's the problem with that? Different versions with different price tags. And with time the price will go down a bit more.
The 3DS price was lower and got even lower because it was old tech. Switch is not that old.

It's true that Nintendo isn't going to fight a power war, but they can't be oblivious to what Sony and MS bring to the market because they need to be competitive and give consumers 3rd party games that are good when compared to the better versions.
I doubt people would like to pay bare bone versions of multiplats.

Actualy they usual have more products than 2, just look at last year, Wii U at $300, New 3DS XL at $199, New 3DS at around $150 and 2DS at $100.That's basically 4 price points, from $100 to 300.

Dont look to much in Nintendo PR talk, they also said that Switch isnt successor to 3DS, but you will see how they changing their song when 3DS dies.

Having just $270 and $330 price point would be bad for Nintendo because for first time they wouldn't have in generation lower price point ($150-200). They will certainly work to have Switch at lower price, and most logical and most certain thing would be to release Switch Mini/Pocket for just handheld playing after 3DS dies for around $200, and I am certain they will do exatly that.

You do realise that Wii was 20-30x times less powerful and still sold better than PS3/Xbox360. If Switch sales good, 3rd parties will port their games to Switch despite power difference, what Switch will offer compared to PS4/XB1/Pro/Scorpio is play on go.

I don't even see $330 as a price point period. 

Tech scales in cost with time, I realize this concept is hard for some Nintendo fans to understand (since Nintendo has never really used any reasonably powered tech for like 10 years now), but if it wasn't true then the Slim XBox One and Slim PS4 should cost more than the old PS4/XB1 ... they use effectively a new chip (at 16nm). And PS4 Pro should cost more than the launch PS4 ... it's twice as powerful, but yet it only costs the same $399.99 magically. 

And iPhones and Samsung Galaxy phones should increase in price point every year, after all it's impossible to have increasing power/better screens and this year over year for crying out loud, and not have to charge more. 

No, more like you are talking something like $249.99 with game included for a smaller Switch and $299.99 for a pro model by 2018. Both can use the Tegra X2 chip. Technology scales people ... especially mobile technology and Nintendo has not done something stupid this time like using some weird propietary chip with a wacky RAM setup or expensive 3D screen tech that no one else is using. They are going to be able to benefit from scaling technology costs very easily, something the Wii U could not do. 

Inflation is a thing too, you can't expect Nintendo to forever have things at $150-$200 ... that's not how real life works. $250-$300 will eventually become the new $150-$200. 



Bofferbrauer on 19 March 2017
Soundwave said:

Thanks to the Tegra X2/Parker chip basically already being available, Nintendo could revise the Switch already. In fact I would guess they already have Switch revision models up and running in their R&D department. 

Because the Tegra X2 consumes about half the power for example, you could have a Switch model that has 5-8 hours of battery life while playing a game like Zelda: BoTW for example and because it would generate significantly less heat, the system could be made smaller too. Now that might be tricky with Joycon size likely having to remain standard, but the right/left black bezels could be cut out, which would significantly reduce the width of the system, while having a better battery life. 

Or conversely you could have dock level performance in undocked mode while keeping the same form factor and potentially a larger screen. So for instance, you could have a Switch that runs Mario Kart 8 Deluxe at 1080p even while undocked. 

My guess is you will see Tegra X2 based Switch systems in 2018 for the first wave of Switch revisions. Something like this

Switch Mini - Cuts down the right/left bezels for more compact size, improves battery life to 5-8 hours. So smaller + better battery. $249.99 MSRP w/game bundled. 

Switch Pro XL - Same size as current Switch, but increases screen size to 7.5 inches 1080p (less bezel), can run at docked performance in portable state. $299.99 MSRP w/game bundled. 

While I do think the Switch will get some upraded version(s), I doubt they will ever put an X2 into the Switch. First the Switch will have to recover it's development costs before a new Model comes out. A Switch with a higher performance hardware won't come out until 2019 earliest, and by then a Volta based Tegra would be the more logical choice - and probably also a cheaper one as I'm not sure if  the X2 will still be in production by then. It won't be Xavier however, as that one is designed for higher performance and consequently more consuption - too much for a handheld design.

What I do expect however is a Switch XL/LL for late next year, with the main change being it's battery life

If they want to make it like the 3DS and provide every year some new hardware, here's my prediction:

2017: Switch

2018 Switch XL/LL: Slightly larger (7-7.5 Inch screen), longer battery life (around 6000 mAh compared to the 4310 of the Switch), fully compatible to the joycons despite the change in size (they just move down a bit deeper)

2019: Switch+: Same size as the original Switch, Volta based Tegra, about twice as powerful (slightly above XBO), slightly better battery as the base model (4500-5000mAh), fully compatible to all Switch acessoires, Full HD Screen

2020: Switch+ XL/LL: Just a Switch XL with the better chipset and Full HD screen

2021: Switch Phone: Instead of switching between Console and handheld, this one switches between handheld and smartphone. Digital only, no gamecard slot (a microSD slot is still provided however). Nonremovable joycons with built-in microphone and speaker for phoning but no own battery for the joycons anymore. No android store, only eShop, but with some added productivity apps and compatible to all of Nintendos smartphone games. Uses Switch+ chip but at a lower clock rate to save on battery life and reduce heat, 5-5.5 inch Full HD screen and 3000-3500 mAh Battery.

2022: Switch mini: A Switch+ shrinked down to Switch Phone size, but with detachable Joycons and gamecard slot.

2023: Release of the successor to the Switch