By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - People's reaction to negative Zelda reviews reminded me of this gem.

Personally, while I think the game is imperfect (I believe it deserves an 8 out of 10), in my view the survival elements in Breath of the Wild are its greatest strength because they add a new degree of realism to the Zelda experience that makes the journey substantially feel like a refreshing change of pace.



Around the Network

Zelda and realism does not go hand in hand because zelda is Fantasy.



Dante9 said:
Renna Hazel said:
The problem with certain reviews is that they have blatantly incorrect information listed as negative aspects of a game. It's not so much the score as it is the content of the review, which in Jim's case, had a lot of misinformation in it. With that said, people should just accept his bias and move on. Not everyone is going to be fair.

What kind of misinformation was there in Jim's review?

How can he have bias when he says that he generally likes Zelda games, but BotW simply isn't his *favorite* Zelda game due to some weaknesses? Do you understand that positive bias is a problem as well? There are people who think that Nintendo games or Zelda games (made by Nintendo) are perfect by default, and that is simply not true. These same people are now attacking someone who dares to not give the game the 10/10 that it "should" get? Are you frigging kidding me? DDossing and whatever, that's just childish and petty. A dick move in any circumstance. Unbelievable. It seems that the main thing for these people is not to enjoy their Zelda, but to force all others to praise it too, lest they be punished. What's wrong with these people? Are they *that* scared for Nintendo's future that they would do literally anything to make sure that there's no criticism?

 

The guy has been ranting against Nintendo, and their fans for a while now. He has a clear bias.

For starters, he complains about the difficulty and how, after upgrading armor and completing shrines, most enemies can kill Link in one hit. This simply isn't true. Aside from a few boss type characters I can't think of any enemies that can kill Link in one hit once you put a minimal amount of effort into the game. As I am now, no enemy can come close to killing me in one hit. 

He points out that you're forced to wait a long time for rain to end. This may be true in some cases but it's very rare that Link is in an area where you can't start a fire and skip past the rain. It just feels like he doesn't understand the things you can do in the game to combat the hazards. 

He claims the game often forces the player to be side tracked or go out of their way in the game. I'm not really sure how a game that is completely open world can have this complaint. I get side tracked because I want to, but the game never ever forces you to deviate from the path you're on. You play the game as you want to play it. 

He makes the odd statement that shrines have to be completed as soon as you find them as there is no way to track which ones you've completed. This is also completely false. 

As for Nintendo fans who can't accept the review, I'm not sure what you want me to say there. I didn't defend them and I already said people need to learn how to move on. I'm a Nintendo fan and a Zelda fan, I read Jim's review and disregarded it because of the misinformation as well as how much our opinions differ. I have no desire to read his site or reviews, so I wont. Attacking his website is indeed childish. 



pangfslng said:

Zelda and realism does not go hand in hand because zelda is Fantasy.

We could say the same thing of GTA V, and yet it's precisely the game's careful attention to small details that many fans really like about that game.



I've been looking for a place to say this but BotW reminds me of the feeling I had playing Dragon's Dogma.

--For those who care, it was my GotY that year.



Around the Network
Renna Hazel said:

The guy has been ranting against Nintendo, and their fans for a while now. He has a clear bias.

For starters, he complains about the difficulty and how, after upgrading armor and completing shrines, most enemies can kill Link in one hit. This simply isn't true. Aside from a few boss type characters I can't think of any enemies that can kill Link in one hit once you put a minimal amount of effort into the game. As I am now, no enemy can come close to killing me in one hit. 

He points out that you're forced to wait a long time for rain to end. This may be true in some cases but it's very rare that Link is in an area where you can't start a fire and skip past the rain. It just feels like he doesn't understand the things you can do in the game to combat the hazards. 

He claims the game often forces the player to be side tracked or go out of their way in the game. I'm not really sure how a game that is completely open world can have this complaint. I get side tracked because I want to, but the game never ever forces you to deviate from the path you're on. You play the game as you want to play it. 

He makes the odd statement that shrines have to be completed as soon as you find them as there is no way to track which ones you've completed. This is also completely false. 

If you're going to accuse someone of misinformation, it'd probably be best to, y'know, not misquote them yourself. Let's go down the laundry list for the sake of accuracy.

First, the point about "most enemies can kill Link in one hit." Let's revisit the actual quote used in the review, which is "Breath simply pumps up the monsters’ ability to do damage, resulting in a lot of one-hit kills even once Link finds and upgrades some decent armor or puts a lot of shrinework into gaining heart containers." You'll notice the words not being employed there are "most," or "a majority." The only accusation is that you can put a good bit of work into collecting heart containers from shrines or upgrading your armor and still consistently get one shot KO'd, which is definitely true, especially if you find yourself in an area that requires the usage of armor that's worse than your upgraded stuff (like Eldin Volcano). You'll also notice that nowhere in this review does it say that it is impossible to upgrade your health and armor to a point where you can avoid getting one hit KO'd.

Second, he quite literally mentions using fire to pass the time when he discusses rainfall.

"Mountains and other high places become even more annoying when it starts to rain. It rains a lot in this game, and when it rains, you can’t climb. You can try, but Link slips so many times you’ll almost inevitably run out of stamina before you find a stable ledge to stand on. It’s one of those Nintendo things, where a silly little detail was implemented simply to have more silly little details regardless of how it actually affected gameplay.

If you were already halfway up a mountain before it started raining, you’re buggered. You’ll either need to hope you landed somewhere sheltered so you can start a fire (in another awkward bit of menu management and item holding), or abandon all your progress and paraglide to an inn or somewhere else that passes the time."

It directly lists the one thing you accuse it of not mentioning right there. Also, the point is exclusively about rain starting while you're in the middle of climbing.

Third, in regards to "forcing the player" to get sidetracked, I believe what you're referring to (although I'm not quite sure, since I can't find that exact wording in the review) is that players are essentially forced to solve what he calls "out of place puzzle bunkers" (the shrines). In which case, you'll again note the phrasing used there is that they are "technically optional, but required if you want to stand a real chance against Ganon. Nowhere in the review does he claim that the game genuinely forces you to do anything, only that completing a certain number of shrines is essentially a requirement if you don't want to spend hours trying to beat the final boss without taking damage.

And finally, the last point isn't anywhere close to being correct. The direct quote (and only quote referring to doing shrines when you find them) is "the proper way of handling shrines is to complete them on sight lest lose track of them." Literally at no point does he say there is no way to track which ones you've completed; only that it's genuinely best to do them when you find them given the chance that the player can forget.

I get that a guy not liking your favorite video game can be frustrating, but if you're going to denounce his review as "biased" because he said (or didn't say) some things, do make sure to actually read the review to ensure that he really did say the things you're claiming he did.



MTZehvor said:
Renna Hazel said:

The guy has been ranting against Nintendo, and their fans for a while now. He has a clear bias.

For starters, he complains about the difficulty and how, after upgrading armor and completing shrines, most enemies can kill Link in one hit. This simply isn't true. Aside from a few boss type characters I can't think of any enemies that can kill Link in one hit once you put a minimal amount of effort into the game. As I am now, no enemy can come close to killing me in one hit. 

He points out that you're forced to wait a long time for rain to end. This may be true in some cases but it's very rare that Link is in an area where you can't start a fire and skip past the rain. It just feels like he doesn't understand the things you can do in the game to combat the hazards. 

He claims the game often forces the player to be side tracked or go out of their way in the game. I'm not really sure how a game that is completely open world can have this complaint. I get side tracked because I want to, but the game never ever forces you to deviate from the path you're on. You play the game as you want to play it. 

He makes the odd statement that shrines have to be completed as soon as you find them as there is no way to track which ones you've completed. This is also completely false. 

If you're going to accuse someone of misinformation, it'd probably be best to, y'know, not misquote them yourself. Let's go down the laundry list for the sake of accuracy.

First, the point about "most enemies can kill Link in one hit." Let's revisit the actual quote used in the review, which is "Breath simply pumps up the monsters’ ability to do damage, resulting in a lot of one-hit kills even once Link finds and upgrades some decent armor or puts a lot of shrinework into gaining heart containers." You'll notice the words not being employed there are "most," or "a majority." The only accusation is that you can put a good bit of work into collecting heart containers from shrines or upgrading your armor and still consistently get one shot KO'd, which is definitely true, especially if you find yourself in an area that requires the usage of armor that's worse than your upgraded stuff (like Eldin Volcano). You'll also notice that nowhere in this review does it say that it is impossible to upgrade your health and armor to a point where you can avoid getting one hit KO'd.

Second, he quite literally mentions using fire to pass the time when he discusses rainfall.

"Mountains and other high places become even more annoying when it starts to rain. It rains a lot in this game, and when it rains, you can’t climb. You can try, but Link slips so many times you’ll almost inevitably run out of stamina before you find a stable ledge to stand on. It’s one of those Nintendo things, where a silly little detail was implemented simply to have more silly little details regardless of how it actually affected gameplay.

If you were already halfway up a mountain before it started raining, you’re buggered. You’ll either need to hope you landed somewhere sheltered so you can start a fire (in another awkward bit of menu management and item holding), or abandon all your progress and paraglide to an inn or somewhere else that passes the time."

It directly lists the one thing you accuse it of not mentioning right there. Also, the point is exclusively about rain starting while you're in the middle of climbing.

Third, in regards to "forcing the player" to get sidetracked, I believe what you're referring to (although I'm not quite sure, since I can't find that exact wording in the review) is that players are essentially forced to solve what he calls "out of place puzzle bunkers" (the shrines). In which case, you'll again note the phrasing used there is that they are "technically optional, but required if you want to stand a real chance against Ganon. Nowhere in the review does he claim that the game genuinely forces you to do anything, only that completing a certain number of shrines is essentially a requirement if you don't want to spend hours trying to beat the final boss without taking damage.

And finally, the last point isn't anywhere close to being correct. The direct quote (and only quote referring to doing shrines when you find them) is "the proper way of handling shrines is to complete them on sight lest lose track of them." Literally at no point does he say there is no way to track which ones you've completed; only that it's genuinely best to do them when you find them given the chance that the player can forget.

I get that a guy not liking your favorite video game can be frustrating, but if you're going to denounce his review as "biased" because he said (or didn't say) some things, do make sure to actually read the review to ensure that he really did say the things you're claiming he did.

Frustrating? lol I don't care what Jim or anyone else thinks about the game. Someone merely asked me why I thought he was biased and I answered. As stated in my first post, people can just ignore him and move on after reading the review, which is what I do. As for your points. 

1-I personally made it through every area of the game without worrying about one hit KOs. A few of the boss characters can do that to you, but you're not really encouraged to fight them. The strongest enemies are probably the guardians and the lynels, I did Zora's Domain as my first dungeon and killed the Lynel rather than sneaking around him, even with only 6 hearts he couldn't kill me in one hit. I assume the guardians can early in the game but it's definitely rare. 

2-I'm aware he mentions the fire, which is why I said you're rarely in an area where you can't start one. Even when scaling mountains, there are still plenty of shelter to start a fire, you may have to deviate a bit from your path, but you never have to completely jump off a mountain and go to an inn to pass the time. I honestly don't think anyone playing the game does that...that's extreme hyperbole. 

3-"Too many times does Breath of the Wild paint its players into corners rather than encourage “varied” playstyles. Too many times does Breath of the Wild force its players into performing mundane tasks or sidetrack their way out of the experience. Too few bosses are anything approaching memorable or exciting, while we’re at it."

This is the quote I was referring to. Again, just not sure how this can really apply to this game. I guess if you really are gliding to an inn every time is starts raining....sure, but seriously, who does that?

4-He says you will lose track of the shrines....that HEAVILY implies that you can't track which ones you've completed. I'll apologize if I'm interpreting that incorrectly but I don't understand the complaint otherwise. 

I definitely didn't claim he said things that he didn't say, and since you can seemingly find the quotes I'm referring to for each point, I clearly read the review. I'm all for open debate but you can cut the condescending stuff out of your post. If you don't see anything wrong with his review, more power to you. I certainly see someone trying to exaggerate or create problems that aren't really there. 



MTZehvor said:
Renna Hazel said:

The guy has been ranting against Nintendo, and their fans for a while now. He has a clear bias.

For starters, he complains about the difficulty and how, after upgrading armor and completing shrines, most enemies can kill Link in one hit. This simply isn't true. Aside from a few boss type characters I can't think of any enemies that can kill Link in one hit once you put a minimal amount of effort into the game. As I am now, no enemy can come close to killing me in one hit. 

He points out that you're forced to wait a long time for rain to end. This may be true in some cases but it's very rare that Link is in an area where you can't start a fire and skip past the rain. It just feels like he doesn't understand the things you can do in the game to combat the hazards. 

He claims the game often forces the player to be side tracked or go out of their way in the game. I'm not really sure how a game that is completely open world can have this complaint. I get side tracked because I want to, but the game never ever forces you to deviate from the path you're on. You play the game as you want to play it. 

He makes the odd statement that shrines have to be completed as soon as you find them as there is no way to track which ones you've completed. This is also completely false. 

If you're going to accuse someone of misinformation, it'd probably be best to, y'know, not misquote them yourself. Let's go down the laundry list for the sake of accuracy.

First, the point about "most enemies can kill Link in one hit." Let's revisit the actual quote used in the review, which is "Breath simply pumps up the monsters’ ability to do damage, resulting in a lot of one-hit kills even once Link finds and upgrades some decent armor or puts a lot of shrinework into gaining heart containers." You'll notice the words not being employed there are "most," or "a majority." The only accusation is that you can put a good bit of work into collecting heart containers from shrines or upgrading your armor and still consistently get one shot KO'd, which is definitely true, especially if you find yourself in an area that requires the usage of armor that's worse than your upgraded stuff (like Eldin Volcano). You'll also notice that nowhere in this review does it say that it is impossible to upgrade your health and armor to a point where you can avoid getting one hit KO'd.

Second, he quite literally mentions using fire to pass the time when he discusses rainfall.

"Mountains and other high places become even more annoying when it starts to rain. It rains a lot in this game, and when it rains, you can’t climb. You can try, but Link slips so many times you’ll almost inevitably run out of stamina before you find a stable ledge to stand on. It’s one of those Nintendo things, where a silly little detail was implemented simply to have more silly little details regardless of how it actually affected gameplay.

If you were already halfway up a mountain before it started raining, you’re buggered. You’ll either need to hope you landed somewhere sheltered so you can start a fire (in another awkward bit of menu management and item holding), or abandon all your progress and paraglide to an inn or somewhere else that passes the time."

It directly lists the one thing you accuse it of not mentioning right there. Also, the point is exclusively about rain starting while you're in the middle of climbing.

Third, in regards to "forcing the player" to get sidetracked, I believe what you're referring to (although I'm not quite sure, since I can't find that exact wording in the review) is that players are essentially forced to solve what he calls "out of place puzzle bunkers" (the shrines). In which case, you'll again note the phrasing used there is that they are "technically optional, but required if you want to stand a real chance against Ganon. Nowhere in the review does he claim that the game genuinely forces you to do anything, only that completing a certain number of shrines is essentially a requirement if you don't want to spend hours trying to beat the final boss without taking damage.

And finally, the last point isn't anywhere close to being correct. The direct quote (and only quote referring to doing shrines when you find them) is "the proper way of handling shrines is to complete them on sight lest lose track of them." Literally at no point does he say there is no way to track which ones you've completed; only that it's genuinely best to do them when you find them given the chance that the player can forget.

I get that a guy not liking your favorite video game can be frustrating, but if you're going to denounce his review as "biased" because he said (or didn't say) some things, do make sure to actually read the review to ensure that he really did say the things you're claiming he did.

I've not read this review, but I reference to shrines, I often leave them without entering them, because a uncompleted shrine shows on your map as orange with a blue outline, and physically in game, the bottom half will be blue, meaning you have discovered the shrine,therefore acts as a warp point,but the top half will be orange meaning incomplete.Also I stamp all my shrines on the map, or I know where they are if I haven't actually unlocked them,ie activated them. So what he's says is a little odd 



Renna Hazel said:
Dante9 said:

What kind of misinformation was there in Jim's review?

How can he have bias when he says that he generally likes Zelda games, but BotW simply isn't his *favorite* Zelda game due to some weaknesses? Do you understand that positive bias is a problem as well? There are people who think that Nintendo games or Zelda games (made by Nintendo) are perfect by default, and that is simply not true. These same people are now attacking someone who dares to not give the game the 10/10 that it "should" get? Are you frigging kidding me? DDossing and whatever, that's just childish and petty. A dick move in any circumstance. Unbelievable. It seems that the main thing for these people is not to enjoy their Zelda, but to force all others to praise it too, lest they be punished. What's wrong with these people? Are they *that* scared for Nintendo's future that they would do literally anything to make sure that there's no criticism?

 

 but the game never ever forces you to deviate from the path you're on. You play the game as you want to play it. 

That's not entirly true. My first main goal. Was to get the map fully revealed. You can't do that. Unless you have a minum of 5 hearts, 2 stamina upgrades, some fire, And do the aka lab fire quest. I still had to do things in a certain order. Or was being blocked off, the way I wanted to do the towers. 5 hearts, mainly to deal with 1 hit kills. Or to bypass winter clothing/peppers.

Also, the Yiga hideout does everything it can, to make you follow a certain way, to get the item. It disables saving. It has enemies that can't be beaten. So, you must sneak and deal with the guards, in some other fashion. Besides direct confrontation. Or using quick save. To load up, only where you messed up. I never like sneaking missions. In a game, that is 99% not stealth. The food controls are also bad, for this main mission. The bananas should stay on your hud. And you just press A and drop. Not go threw the cumbersome menu, the game has.



Renna Hazel said:
MTZehvor said:

If you're going to accuse someone of misinformation, it'd probably be best to, y'know, not misquote them yourself. Let's go down the laundry list for the sake of accuracy.

First, the point about "most enemies can kill Link in one hit." Let's revisit the actual quote used in the review, which is "Breath simply pumps up the monsters’ ability to do damage, resulting in a lot of one-hit kills even once Link finds and upgrades some decent armor or puts a lot of shrinework into gaining heart containers." You'll notice the words not being employed there are "most," or "a majority." The only accusation is that you can put a good bit of work into collecting heart containers from shrines or upgrading your armor and still consistently get one shot KO'd, which is definitely true, especially if you find yourself in an area that requires the usage of armor that's worse than your upgraded stuff (like Eldin Volcano). You'll also notice that nowhere in this review does it say that it is impossible to upgrade your health and armor to a point where you can avoid getting one hit KO'd.

Second, he quite literally mentions using fire to pass the time when he discusses rainfall.

"Mountains and other high places become even more annoying when it starts to rain. It rains a lot in this game, and when it rains, you can’t climb. You can try, but Link slips so many times you’ll almost inevitably run out of stamina before you find a stable ledge to stand on. It’s one of those Nintendo things, where a silly little detail was implemented simply to have more silly little details regardless of how it actually affected gameplay.

If you were already halfway up a mountain before it started raining, you’re buggered. You’ll either need to hope you landed somewhere sheltered so you can start a fire (in another awkward bit of menu management and item holding), or abandon all your progress and paraglide to an inn or somewhere else that passes the time."

It directly lists the one thing you accuse it of not mentioning right there. Also, the point is exclusively about rain starting while you're in the middle of climbing.

Third, in regards to "forcing the player" to get sidetracked, I believe what you're referring to (although I'm not quite sure, since I can't find that exact wording in the review) is that players are essentially forced to solve what he calls "out of place puzzle bunkers" (the shrines). In which case, you'll again note the phrasing used there is that they are "technically optional, but required if you want to stand a real chance against Ganon. Nowhere in the review does he claim that the game genuinely forces you to do anything, only that completing a certain number of shrines is essentially a requirement if you don't want to spend hours trying to beat the final boss without taking damage.

And finally, the last point isn't anywhere close to being correct. The direct quote (and only quote referring to doing shrines when you find them) is "the proper way of handling shrines is to complete them on sight lest lose track of them." Literally at no point does he say there is no way to track which ones you've completed; only that it's genuinely best to do them when you find them given the chance that the player can forget.

I get that a guy not liking your favorite video game can be frustrating, but if you're going to denounce his review as "biased" because he said (or didn't say) some things, do make sure to actually read the review to ensure that he really did say the things you're claiming he did.

Frustrating? lol I don't care what Jim or anyone else thinks about the game. Someone merely asked me why I thought he was biased and I answered. As stated in my first post, people can just ignore him and move on after reading the review, which is what I do. As for your points. 

1-I personally made it through every area of the game without worrying about one hit KOs. A few of the boss characters can do that to you, but you're not really encouraged to fight them. The strongest enemies are probably the guardians and the lynels, I did Zora's Domain as my first dungeon and killed the Lynel rather than sneaking around him, even with only 6 hearts he couldn't kill me in one hit. I assume the guardians can early in the game but it's definitely rare. 

2-I'm aware he mentions the fire, which is why I said you're rarely in an area where you can't start one. Even when scaling mountains, there are still plenty of shelter to start a fire, you may have to deviate a bit from your path, but you never have to completely jump off a mountain and go to an inn to pass the time. I honestly don't think anyone playing the game does that...that's extreme hyperbole. 

3-"Too many times does Breath of the Wild paint its players into corners rather than encourage “varied” playstyles. Too many times does Breath of the Wild force its players into performing mundane tasks or sidetrack their way out of the experience. Too few bosses are anything approaching memorable or exciting, while we’re at it."

This is the quote I was referring to. Again, just not sure how this can really apply to this game. I guess if you really are gliding to an inn every time is starts raining....sure, but seriously, who does that?

4-He says you will lose track of the shrines....that HEAVILY implies that you can't track which ones you've completed. I'll apologize if I'm interpreting that incorrectly but I don't understand the complaint otherwise. 

I definitely didn't claim he said things that he didn't say, and since you can seemingly find the quotes I'm referring to for each point, I clearly read the review. I'm all for open debate but you can cut the condescending stuff out of your post. If you don't see anything wrong with his review, more power to you. I certainly see someone trying to exaggerate or create problems that aren't really there. 

At the point where you accuse a reviewer (or anyone) of having bias and providing "blatantly incorrect information" in a review, then no, you've moved far beyond "open debate." If you want to make the argument that he's exaggerating the flaws with a game, fine. But the difference between the former and the latter is one is going after a person's journalistic integrity, which is just a step below a direct attack on a person's character, whereas the latter is simply arguing how much a certain flaw affects a person.

And perhaps the biggest thing to note in that line (going to group all of these points together to save time) is that just about every response here is based on your personal experience with the game. At the very most, you can say that his skill level makes his review not as applicable for the average gamer (although I've watched quite a few people play this game, and, along with my own playthrough, I think I'm pretty safe in saying you're in the minority for never worrying about getting one hit KO'd). But the accusation of willfully providing misinformation as a result of bias is nothing short of baseless.