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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - People's reaction to negative Zelda reviews reminded me of this gem.

archer9234 said:
Renna Hazel said:

 but the game never ever forces you to deviate from the path you're on. You play the game as you want to play it. 

That's not entirly true. My first main goal. Was to get the map fully revealed. You can't do that. Unless you have a minum of 5 hearts, 2 stamina upgrades, some fire, And do the aka lab fire quest. I still had to do things in a certain order. Or was being blocked off, the way I wanted to do the towers. 5 hearts, mainly to deal with 1 hit kills. Or to bypass winter clothing/peppers.

Yeah, I shouldn't use words like 'never', but it's true 99 percent of the time. the game does not force you to go off path. You may need certain clothing to access certain towers, but that's part of the path to accessing them. You do not need a minimum of 5 hearts to activate the towers, you CAN do it with 3, it would just be very difficult. Obviously if your goal is to go to every region of the world without ever upgrading, it will be very difficult, but you still can do it. You can fight Ganon right after the tutorial, but it would be very difficult to win. 

Obviously if you set some really difficult challenges as soon as you start the game, it will be much harder to do them without upgrading. I don't believe it's impossible though, save for maybe one tower that seemed rather difficult to scale (even then, there may be a way around it using the surrounding area. 



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Renna Hazel said:
archer9234 said:

That's not entirly true. My first main goal. Was to get the map fully revealed. You can't do that. Unless you have a minum of 5 hearts, 2 stamina upgrades, some fire, And do the aka lab fire quest. I still had to do things in a certain order. Or was being blocked off, the way I wanted to do the towers. 5 hearts, mainly to deal with 1 hit kills. Or to bypass winter clothing/peppers.

Yeah, I shouldn't use words like 'never', but it's true 99 percent of the time. the game does not force you to go off path. You may need certain clothing to access certain towers, but that's part of the path to accessing them. You do not need a minimum of 5 hearts to activate the towers, you CAN do it with 3, it would just be very difficult. Obviously if your goal is to go to every region of the world without ever upgrading, it will be very difficult, but you still can do it. You can fight Ganon right after the tutorial, but it would be very difficult to win. 

Obviously if you set some really difficult challenges as soon as you start the game, it will be much harder to do them without upgrading. I don't believe it's impossible though, save for maybe one tower that seemed rather difficult to scale (even then, there may be a way around it using the surrounding area. 

No. The endless tower, in the minning area, is impossible. With zero stamina upgrades. Same goes for the central tower. You must defeat the guardians. Unless you can fight with no proper arrows. You'll be cut off. The games forces you to find upgrades. If you try the towers, over everything.



Well, at least with a 4.5/10 you have something to get upset about, especially if the game isn't below average. Of course, that still doesn't warrant a DDOS attack. Definitely not when the score is freaking 7/10, which is still a good score.



MTZehvor said:
Renna Hazel said:

Frustrating? lol I don't care what Jim or anyone else thinks about the game. Someone merely asked me why I thought he was biased and I answered. As stated in my first post, people can just ignore him and move on after reading the review, which is what I do. As for your points. 

1-I personally made it through every area of the game without worrying about one hit KOs. A few of the boss characters can do that to you, but you're not really encouraged to fight them. The strongest enemies are probably the guardians and the lynels, I did Zora's Domain as my first dungeon and killed the Lynel rather than sneaking around him, even with only 6 hearts he couldn't kill me in one hit. I assume the guardians can early in the game but it's definitely rare. 

2-I'm aware he mentions the fire, which is why I said you're rarely in an area where you can't start one. Even when scaling mountains, there are still plenty of shelter to start a fire, you may have to deviate a bit from your path, but you never have to completely jump off a mountain and go to an inn to pass the time. I honestly don't think anyone playing the game does that...that's extreme hyperbole. 

3-"Too many times does Breath of the Wild paint its players into corners rather than encourage “varied” playstyles. Too many times does Breath of the Wild force its players into performing mundane tasks or sidetrack their way out of the experience. Too few bosses are anything approaching memorable or exciting, while we’re at it."

This is the quote I was referring to. Again, just not sure how this can really apply to this game. I guess if you really are gliding to an inn every time is starts raining....sure, but seriously, who does that?

4-He says you will lose track of the shrines....that HEAVILY implies that you can't track which ones you've completed. I'll apologize if I'm interpreting that incorrectly but I don't understand the complaint otherwise. 

I definitely didn't claim he said things that he didn't say, and since you can seemingly find the quotes I'm referring to for each point, I clearly read the review. I'm all for open debate but you can cut the condescending stuff out of your post. If you don't see anything wrong with his review, more power to you. I certainly see someone trying to exaggerate or create problems that aren't really there. 

At the point where you accuse a reviewer (or anyone) of having bias and providing "blatantly incorrect information" in a review, then no, you've moved far beyond "open debate." If you want to make the argument that he's exaggerating the flaws with a game, fine. But the difference between the former and the latter is one is going after a person's journalistic integrity, which is just a step below a direct attack on a person's character, whereas the latter is simply arguing how much a certain flaw affects a person.

And perhaps the biggest thing to note in that line (going to group all of these points together to save time) is that just about every response here is based on your personal experience with the game. At the very most, you can say that his skill level makes his review not as applicable for the average gamer (although I've watched quite a few people play this game, and, along with my own playthrough, I think I'm pretty safe in saying you're in the minority for never worrying about getting one hit KO'd). But the accusation of willfully providing misinformation as a result of bias is nothing short of baseless.

This shows bias in my opinion. I do find exaggerations lead to misinformation. 

And obviously my responses are based on my personal experience. As are Jims I would assume? I'm not sure what else I can base it on. But if we're past having an open debate about the review (that's what this topic is about) because I think it's inaccurate, there really isn't much else to say. I don't want to get into a condescending back and forth because that's just not my style. 



archer9234 said:
Renna Hazel said:

Yeah, I shouldn't use words like 'never', but it's true 99 percent of the time. the game does not force you to go off path. You may need certain clothing to access certain towers, but that's part of the path to accessing them. You do not need a minimum of 5 hearts to activate the towers, you CAN do it with 3, it would just be very difficult. Obviously if your goal is to go to every region of the world without ever upgrading, it will be very difficult, but you still can do it. You can fight Ganon right after the tutorial, but it would be very difficult to win. 

Obviously if you set some really difficult challenges as soon as you start the game, it will be much harder to do them without upgrading. I don't believe it's impossible though, save for maybe one tower that seemed rather difficult to scale (even then, there may be a way around it using the surrounding area. 

No. The endless tower, in the minning area, is impossible. With zero stamina upgrades. Same goes for the central tower. You must defeat the guardians. Unless you can fight with no proper arrows. You'll be cut off. The games forces you to find upgrades. If you try the towers, over everything.

Well yeah, you have to get weapons to fight. I don't think any game allows THAT level of freedom where you can jump to any point of the game with 0 preperation. That's like saying your goal is to beat all the bosses in the game, but the path to get to them is 'sidetracking' you because you don't fight them immediately. Guardians can be killed very early in the game. It's just gonna be one heck of a fight to do so. 



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archer9234 said:
Renna Hazel said:

Yeah, I shouldn't use words like 'never', but it's true 99 percent of the time. the game does not force you to go off path. You may need certain clothing to access certain towers, but that's part of the path to accessing them. You do not need a minimum of 5 hearts to activate the towers, you CAN do it with 3, it would just be very difficult. Obviously if your goal is to go to every region of the world without ever upgrading, it will be very difficult, but you still can do it. You can fight Ganon right after the tutorial, but it would be very difficult to win. 

Obviously if you set some really difficult challenges as soon as you start the game, it will be much harder to do them without upgrading. I don't believe it's impossible though, save for maybe one tower that seemed rather difficult to scale (even then, there may be a way around it using the surrounding area. 

No. The endless tower, in the minning area, is impossible. With zero stamina upgrades. Same goes for the central tower. You must defeat the guardians. Unless you can fight with no proper arrows. You'll be cut off. The games forces you to find upgrades. If you try the towers, over everything.

You can make stamina food or elixirs for that tower.  Guardians can be one shotted by reflected their laser with your shield.



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vivster said:
Acevil said:

Honestly it is a bias. You can prefer musuo game but still put bias aside. You can honestly hate a company and do the same. I hate EA but if someone asked me to play a game of theirs I would put my hate of EA aside.

Which is what Jim did. All points in his review are valid opinions and the score reflects what's written in it.

He's not the guy who would let hate for a company come in the way of a proper critique. He gave MGS5 a 9/10 and he hates nothing more than Konami. Nintendo doesn't even come close to his disdain of Konami.

While I certainly think Jim has the right to give the game whatever score he feels it deserves, I do think I should point out that he most definitely is not representative of a lot of gamers' opinions when scoring. 

Example: https://www.destructoid.com/review-kirby-s-epic-yarn-186190.phtml  This review

I liked Kirby's Epic Yarn, but I don't think I enjoyed that game as much as I will enjoy Breath of the Wild (I got to play about 3-4 hours).

Personally why I don't use Jim's reviews to judge the value of any game for myself.



JakDaSnack said:
archer9234 said:

No. The endless tower, in the minning area, is impossible. With zero stamina upgrades. Same goes for the central tower. You must defeat the guardians. Unless you can fight with no proper arrows. You'll be cut off. The games forces you to find upgrades. If you try the towers, over everything.

You can make stamina food or elixirs for that tower.  Guardians can be one shotted by reflected their laser with your shield.

That no one will know. Unless they travel around enough. To understand how to make the elixers. And getting that timing off is hard. Again, need to know the info too. Or people will think they're invincible. If you just start litterly from plateu and go to the farthest one. Without knowing anything. It won't work. That's what I did. The first tower, I was trying to go for; was the top left area. I was planning to work my way back to the starting point. When i entered the areas. I didn't know about manually mixing stuff, or the elixers. I didn't even know you had to cook at certain places, only. So, I kept getting pushed to the right side. And when I got threw ruta. I was like oh, now I get how to do this. You can probably do everything, if you played the game before. Not, when you're new.



archer9234 said:
Renna Hazel said:

 but the game never ever forces you to deviate from the path you're on. You play the game as you want to play it. 

That's not entirly true. My first main goal. Was to get the map fully revealed. You can't do that. Unless you have a minum of 5 hearts, 2 stamina upgrades, some fire, And do the aka lab fire quest. I still had to do things in a certain order. Or was being blocked off, the way I wanted to do the towers. 5 hearts, mainly to deal with 1 hit kills. Or to bypass winter clothing/peppers.

Also, the Yiga hideout does everything it can, to make you follow a certain way, to get the item. It disables saving. It has enemies that can't be beaten. So, you must sneak and deal with the guards, in some other fashion. Besides direct confrontation. Or using quick save. To load up, only where you messed up. I never like sneaking missions. In a game, that is 99% not stealth. The food controls are also bad, for this main mission. The bananas should stay on your hud. And you just press A and drop. Not go threw the cumbersome menu, the game has.

I stealth killed every enemy I'm the Yiga clan area except for one. I whistled and he left the door unguarded so I ran through!



Renna Hazel said:
MTZehvor said:

At the point where you accuse a reviewer (or anyone) of having bias and providing "blatantly incorrect information" in a review, then no, you've moved far beyond "open debate." If you want to make the argument that he's exaggerating the flaws with a game, fine. But the difference between the former and the latter is one is going after a person's journalistic integrity, which is just a step below a direct attack on a person's character, whereas the latter is simply arguing how much a certain flaw affects a person.

And perhaps the biggest thing to note in that line (going to group all of these points together to save time) is that just about every response here is based on your personal experience with the game. At the very most, you can say that his skill level makes his review not as applicable for the average gamer (although I've watched quite a few people play this game, and, along with my own playthrough, I think I'm pretty safe in saying you're in the minority for never worrying about getting one hit KO'd). But the accusation of willfully providing misinformation as a result of bias is nothing short of baseless.

This shows bias in my opinion. I do find exaggerations lead to misinformation. 

And obviously my responses are based on my personal experience. As are Jims I would assume? I'm not sure what else I can base it on. But if we're past having an open debate about the review (that's what this topic is about) because I think it's inaccurate, there really isn't much else to say. I don't want to get into a condescending back and forth because that's just not my style. 

The difference is intentionality. If you want to make the argument that his experience was different than the average person's, and as such is likely not a good indicator of how much they will enjoy it, then that's one thing. If you want to accuse him of what is essentially dishonesty, that's something entirely different, and an accusation that really shouldn't be thrown around without tangible evidence.

To put it another way, the difference between the two is whether he's genuinely reporting his experience, and his experience simply isn't likely to be applicable for most players, or whether he's intentionally overstating certain parts of his experience with the intent to mislead readers.