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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Why doesn't Nintendo let estabished indie devs borrow their IPs ?

caffeinade on 05 March 2017
Nuvendil said:
Alkibiádēs said:

Sonic Mania.

And?  You asked for reasons, I gave them.

Showing one example that those reasons could be wrong in highly selective circumstances doesn't say much here.  There's a select few indie devs that could make a select few IPs work.  But the majority of IP hele by Nintendo?  So few, so very few have the means to handle them.  I mean, just look at your example: Sonic Mania is handled as a partnership with indies but Sonic 2017 is not.  

Also, your definition of indie you put up is just plain false.  Indie means independently developed out from under the auspices and restrictions of a traditional publisher relationship.  You can have 5 developers like Shin'en, or a 100.  You can have a budget of 25,000 like Freedom Planet or millions like Yooka-Laylee.  You can self distribute or find physical distribution after the fact.  This is video games, not books, the definition of indie is different because the relationships between the various sectors of the industry are different.

And Nintendo isn't classified as indie because Nintendo is not a developer, it is a publisher, hardware manufacturer, and parrent company. Nintendo EAD, Monolith Soft, Retro, these are the developers opperating under the umbrella of "Nintendo".  It's no different at all than Bethesda Game Studios' relationship with Bethesda Softworks.  It's not size, it's structure and whether or not the studios are opperating under the auspices and restrictions of a parrent company/publisher/etc.  

And don't forget Nintendo is owned by the shareholders.



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Nautilus on 05 March 2017
Mr Puggsly said:
Nautilus said:

No you are wrong.I played many indie games and I have a great idea what an endeavour creating a game like that would take.

For years we've already seen indie teams doing content at par with 8 and 16 bit gaming.

We've even seen very ambitious games launched for $10 - $20 like Minecraft and Rocket League. So again, you're just wrong.

You are comparing apples with oranges.Minecraft is the game it is today because of user created content, something thats out of the hand of the developer.Not to mention that it took years to make the game and the game is simplistic in terms of graphics.Rocket League is a multiplayer game that(at least initially) wasnt a big game per se, so it was easier to develop.

 

You are missing the point.I never said that an indie developer couldnt make a 2D Metroid game for example.I said that they couldnt make the game everyone wants.First of all, we wouldnt want a 8 or 16 bit game(at least I wouldnt, would be like going back with the franchise).If it were up to me, I would want at least Bloodstained levels of graphics, which would be much more complicated for a developer.Then, the game would be much bigger in scope and ambition like Axium Verge for example.Not only that, but Metroid has a lot of back story and world building already on it, so the developer would have to worry about that, and the list goes on.It would be a much bigger project for any indie to handle.

Its a matter of making the game everyone wants, rather than making a game.So in that sense, no they couldnt.Or they would have to make a pact with Nintendo(in terms to get budget and manpower and many other things) that no indie would like, not to mention that, at that point, I dont think you could consider them an indie anymore.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

Mr Puggsly on 05 March 2017
Nautilus said:
Mr Puggsly said:

For years we've already seen indie teams doing content at par with 8 and 16 bit gaming.

We've even seen very ambitious games launched for $10 - $20 like Minecraft and Rocket League. So again, you're just wrong.

You are missing the point.I never said that an indie developer couldnt make a 2D Metroid game for example.I said that they couldnt make the game everyone wants.

I'm just gonna focus on that. Its not about making a game "EVERYBODY" wants, that's impossible.

Some people feel Wii U didn't get a true 3D Mario game (64, Sunshine, Galaxy). But the audience is divided, not everybody wants the 3D adventure Mario games. There is a large audience that wants games more akin to the 8 and 16 bit era stuff. There is an audience for 2D and 3D Mario games. There is an audience for isometric, retro-ish Zelda games and 3D openworld Zelda games.

Bottom line, Nintendo could work with indie studios that have unique ideas. Nintendo could also co-develop for quality control reasons.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Nautilus on 05 March 2017
Mr Puggsly said:
Nautilus said:

You are missing the point.I never said that an indie developer couldnt make a 2D Metroid game for example.I said that they couldnt make the game everyone wants.

I'm just gonna focus on that. Its not about making a game "EVERYBODY" wants, that's impossible.

Some people feel Wii U didn't get a true 3D Mario game (64, Sunshine, Galaxy). But the audience is divided, not everybody wants the 3D adventure Mario games. There is a large audience that wants games more akin to the 8 and 16 bit era stuff. There is an audience for 2D and 3D Mario games. There is an audience for isometric, retro-ish Zelda games and 3D openworld Zelda games.

Bottom line, Nintendo could work with indie studios that have unique ideas. Nintendo could also co-develop for quality control reasons.

Oh please.You understood what I meant.There is always that one guy that wont like a game that everyone likes(take BOTW as an example).What I meant is a game that people can agree that is a worthy entry.For all the hate that Super Mario 3D World get, everyone agrees thats its a great game.Indies simply dosent have the infrastruture necessary to deal with Nintendo big guns(for better or worse, Metroid is a big gun)

I would agree that they could handle dsome of their IPs that are much lesser known, like Star Tropics for example.It would breath a new life in a franchise that would never get off a new chance anyway.That I can see working.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

maxleresistant on 05 March 2017

I want a Metroid game by Drinkbox Studios.

For who don't know, Drinkbox made the best Metroid game of the last 10 years, it's called Guacamelee, and it's awesome, they should make the next Metroid. TBH they should already be making it... But well, Nintendo...



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Mr Puggsly on 05 March 2017
Nautilus said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I'm just gonna focus on that. Its not about making a game "EVERYBODY" wants, that's impossible.

Some people feel Wii U didn't get a true 3D Mario game (64, Sunshine, Galaxy). But the audience is divided, not everybody wants the 3D adventure Mario games. There is a large audience that wants games more akin to the 8 and 16 bit era stuff. There is an audience for 2D and 3D Mario games. There is an audience for isometric, retro-ish Zelda games and 3D openworld Zelda games.

Bottom line, Nintendo could work with indie studios that have unique ideas. Nintendo could also co-develop for quality control reasons.

Oh please.You understood what I meant.There is always that one guy that wont like a game that everyone likes(take BOTW as an example).What I meant is a game that people can agree that is a worthy entry.For all the hate that Super Mario 3D World get, everyone agrees thats its a great game.Indies simply dosent have the infrastruture necessary to deal with Nintendo big guns(for better or worse, Metroid is a big gun)

I would agree that they could handle dsome of their IPs that are much lesser known, like Star Tropics for example.It would breath a new life in a franchise that would never get off a new chance anyway.That I can see working.

I believe an indie can make a Metroid people enjoy, just look at the praise AM2R received. I heard more good things about that than Other M.

Its evident people enjoy ambitious 3D Sonic games. But there is also an audience excited about Sonic Mania (the Sega Genesis throwback). Hence, you can actually make more people happy by appealing to different audiences even with the same IP. I've played every New Super Mario Bros with little interest in 3D Mario games.

Your argument is basically Nintendo would disappoint fans by not focusing entirely on ambitious/big budget products. You're simply wrong.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Nautilus on 05 March 2017
Mr Puggsly said:
Nautilus said:

Oh please.You understood what I meant.There is always that one guy that wont like a game that everyone likes(take BOTW as an example).What I meant is a game that people can agree that is a worthy entry.For all the hate that Super Mario 3D World get, everyone agrees thats its a great game.Indies simply dosent have the infrastruture necessary to deal with Nintendo big guns(for better or worse, Metroid is a big gun)

I would agree that they could handle dsome of their IPs that are much lesser known, like Star Tropics for example.It would breath a new life in a franchise that would never get off a new chance anyway.That I can see working.

I believe an indie can make a Metroid people enjoy, just look at the praise AM2R received. I heard more good things about that than Other M.

Its evident people enjoy ambitious 3D Sonic games. But there is also an audience excited about Sonic Mania (the Sega Genesis throwback). Hence, you can actually make more people happy by appealing to different audiences even with the same IP. I've played every New Super Mario Bros with little interest in 3D Mario games.

Your argument is basically Nintendo would disappoint fans by not focusing entirely on ambitious/big budget products. You're simply wrong.

Well, lets agree to disagree then!



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

Mr Puggsly on 05 March 2017
Nautilus said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I believe an indie can make a Metroid people enjoy, just look at the praise AM2R received. I heard more good things about that than Other M.

Its evident people enjoy ambitious 3D Sonic games. But there is also an audience excited about Sonic Mania (the Sega Genesis throwback). Hence, you can actually make more people happy by appealing to different audiences even with the same IP. I've played every New Super Mario Bros with little interest in 3D Mario games.

Your argument is basically Nintendo would disappoint fans by not focusing entirely on ambitious/big budget products. You're simply wrong.

Well, lets agree to disagree then!

An IP can have big budget ambitious titles and other titles less than that. There is enough evidence showing consumers like those options.

Nothing to disagree with there.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

jonathanalis on 05 March 2017

indies dont want.
they prefer to develop their own IP, and grow by its own recognizing.



Nautilus on 05 March 2017
Mr Puggsly said:
Nautilus said:

Well, lets agree to disagree then!

An IP can have big budget ambitious titles and other titles less than that. There is enough evidence showing consumers like those options.

Nothing to disagree with there.

Thats the spirit!



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1