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Forums - Sales Discussion - Shigeru Miyamoto: "In the world of fun, there's only number one."

outlawauron said:
RolStoppable said:

And what games would Sony have?

The games that the Vita has? It's fun to rail on the vita since the games are niche, but it still gets more games released in the West than the 3DS for the past several years.

and really, the idea of Sony getting back into the handheld market seems silly. Not going to happen.

Too bad nobody buys them. 

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Actually I don't even buy the "it has no competetion" ... it has no competetion until it's successful, if it shows success, then it likely will be copied like crazy.

Just because Sony may not make a Vita 2, I mean you look at 1,2 Switch ... that's an experience that could easily be ripped off and played on any tablet, all you would need is a $50 Joycon knock-off that could work with an iPad, iPhone, and hundreds of millions of Android phones and tablets out there. It could even work with smartphones and you'd have the same experience basically, just have a bunch of inane mini-games.

The app could be free or $1-$2, the controllers could be $50-$60, that would beat out the Switch which costs $350 if that's all the type of gaming you want. 

That's why Nintendo needs core gamers, whether you like them or not, all that mini-game shit is easy as pie to copy and replicate on any number of tablets, and likely the app makers would make something like 1,2 Switch cost $1 or even free ... this is the problem Nintendo is going to have chasing that audience again, the rules have changed and no one will pay $50 a pop for that when they can get the same experience on a tablet for free.

Samsung I bet will have their own Joycon knock off that works with Android tablets and phones within 12-15 months if the Switch has any kind of real market success and someone, maybe even Apple themselves will make something for the iPad/iPhone as well. I'm not even sure you would even need Joycons to rip off an idea like 1,2 Switch, it could even just use the camera on the tablet to determine who "wins" (seems arbitrary even in a lot of the Switch games). 



Alkibiádēs said:

Too much hassle and it overstretches the game making it incredibly ugly. PSP games already look ugly on the small screen it comes with, never mind a big TV with an HD screen. 

Too much hastle to set the option in the menu once, and never have to touch it again?

Yes, that's how laptops work as well. It's a sensible feature, not a cost cutting measure. No other console but the Switch does this.

No, laptops to not suddenly become faster when connected to a TV, nor do they increase resolution or speed when connected to AC, they run at whatever speed you want, whenever you want, you don't get a choice with Switch, thus it's a workaround not a feature.

Nobody fucking bought a PSP Go and even less people bought that peripheral you posted an image of. The PSP Go didn't even support all the PSP games and it was a digital-only device. 

It wouldn't matter if only a single person in the whole world bought a psp go and the dock, it still exists and still does exactly what i stated.

Except you need to buy a new revision of the PSP (that sold very poorly) and an extra peripheral to boot. And you're still left with the huge problem of playing 272p games on a big screen HD TV. 

Again, doesn't matter how poorly it sold, it existed, additionally, the psp go + stand was, even at launch, significantly cheaper.

This is utter bullshit you just made up. The 3DS has way more retail releases than the number you posted. Use some common sense man... VGchartz alone is tracking 556 games for the 3DS and there are many more games that they don't have sales data for. The DS sold more than double the amount of software than the PSP and even the 3DS has almost sold as much retail games as the PSP despite having sold 16 million units less. Soon the 3DS will overtake the PSP, it's only a matter of time. The PSP has a lower tie ratio than any of Nintendo's handhelds (or home consoles). It had a weak library compared to Nintendo's handhelds. Even the GBA managed to sell more software than the PSP despite only being supported by Nintendo for 3-4 years. 

Those figures for retails numbers are pulled directly off of wikipedia for retail releases, i.e. full retail games, not counting eshop, psp minis, virtual console or ps1 classics, don't get angry at the facts.

Up to 8 Nintendo Switch devices can connect with each other for local off-line multiplayer (and this doesn't cost you anything, so it does have free multiplayer). Can the PSP do that? You mention one game and I'm not even going to bother looking it up, but it was probably terribly executed (like most things on the PSP). Also all of the things you mentioned are done much better on just about any smart-phone device. And that's exactly the reason why the Vita failed. Smart-phones had taken over and thus there was much less incentive to buy a PS handheld as they were lacking in the games department (PSP sold as much as it did because it could do stuff other than gaming and smart-phones hadn't taken of yet). But in this day and age focusing on that kind of stuff on a dedicated gaming handheld is pointless as people just use smart-phones for all that stuff (just look at the sales of the Vita for proof). Nintendo is correct in focusing on just games with the Switch (and a lot of that stuff can be added later through updates anyway). And who says the Switch doesn't have a fully featured storefront for buying content? Also you forget to take inflation into account and the Switch can also quite easily get price cuts lol... 

As stated to you multiple times, the PSP released in 2004, which is 13 years ago, for a 13 year old system it still holds up pretty darn well.

As you also stated, smartphones do all of the same things and more, including rumble, haptic feedback, gyro, camera, accelerometer, high resolution screens, multitouch and more, but you don't seem to realize that you're not actually showing that the PSP isn't comparable, all you are doing is demonstrating why the Switch isn't that unique.

Also, plenty of PSP games have multi-player local co-op, but again, it also has online play for free, which the Switch does not. As for:  "And who says the Switch doesn't have a fully featured storefront for buying content?" What exactly are they going to sell on it?, there is only a small handful of games available at launch and theres no streaming services, browser or similar available yet?, how is that fully featured?

The Switch offers home console experiences on the go, the PSP does not. Therefor a higher retail price is justified. The PSP never got games with AAA production values. The Switch will get these, just look at Breath of the Wild, Super Mario Odyssey, Steep or Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. Besides, I'm pretty sure not every Switch game will cost $60, prices will be flexible. 
The PSP got plenty of high profile psp-specific titles, but again, this harks back to the release date, 2004, you are comparing systems 13 years apart and wondering why the Switch has better graphics?

Homebrew is illegal and unofficial and has no room in this discussion... Rampant piracy isn't something to brag about, it's one of the reasons why the PSP has such a low tie ratio. 
Homebrew is perfectly legal, and has plenty of room for discussion, piracy on the other hand, which I did not mention what so ever, doesn't. In most countries owning the original copy of a title allows you to, via fair use, play that game on an emulator, providing you do not host or redistribute the rom to anyone else, so again, that's fine too.
Ironically, the DS and 3DS have even more rampant piracy than the PSP, despite Nintendo cracking down as hard as they could on R4 cards and similar.


Alkibiádēs said:
outlawauron said:

The games that the Vita has? It's fun to rail on the vita since the games are niche, but it still gets more games released in the West than the 3DS for the past several years.

and really, the idea of Sony getting back into the handheld market seems silly. Not going to happen.

Too bad nobody buys them. 

982 9,049 14,284 29,949
1,922 3,245 1,126 6,895

Given that it's so poorly supported by Sony it's selling quite well, even now.



Soundwave said:

Actually I don't even buy the "it has no competetion" ... it has no competetion until it's successful, if it shows success, then it likely will be copied like crazy.

Just because Sony may not make a Vita 2, I mean you look at 1,2 Switch ... that's an experience that could easily be ripped off and played on any tablet, all you would need is a $50 Joycon knock-off that could work with an iPad, iPhone, and hundreds of millions of Android phones and tablets out there. It could even work with smartphones and you'd have the same experience basically, just have a bunch of inane mini-games.

The app could be free or $1-$2, the controllers could be $50-$60, that would beat out the Switch which costs $350 if that's all the type of gaming you want. 

That's why Nintendo needs core gamers, whether you like them or not, all that mini-game shit is easy as pie to copy and replicate on any number of tablets, and likely the app makers would make something like 1,2 Switch cost $1 or even free ... this is the problem Nintendo is going to have chasing that audience again, the rules have changed and no one will pay $50 a pop for that when they can get the same experience on a tablet for free.

Samsung I bet will have their own Joycon knock off that works with Android tablets and phones within 12-15 months if the Switch has any kind of real market success and someone, maybe even Apple themselves will make something for the iPad/iPhone as well. I'm not even sure you would even need Joycons to rip off an idea like 1,2 Switch, it could even just use the camera on the tablet to determine who "wins" (seems arbitrary even in a lot of the Switch games). 

Nobody will buy a $50 cazualz game when they can pay $50 for a ripoff joycon ($100 for 2?) and buy smartphone apps at $1. Is that what you're saying? Why a ripoff joycon and not the real thing? I'm sure Nintendo wouldn't mind if every smartphone/tablet owner bought 2 joycons each.

EA could have released a wiimote/wii sports for ps2/3/360 but they didn't did they?



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Pyro as Bill said:
Soundwave said:

Actually I don't even buy the "it has no competetion" ... it has no competetion until it's successful, if it shows success, then it likely will be copied like crazy.

Just because Sony may not make a Vita 2, I mean you look at 1,2 Switch ... that's an experience that could easily be ripped off and played on any tablet, all you would need is a $50 Joycon knock-off that could work with an iPad, iPhone, and hundreds of millions of Android phones and tablets out there. It could even work with smartphones and you'd have the same experience basically, just have a bunch of inane mini-games.

The app could be free or $1-$2, the controllers could be $50-$60, that would beat out the Switch which costs $350 if that's all the type of gaming you want. 

That's why Nintendo needs core gamers, whether you like them or not, all that mini-game shit is easy as pie to copy and replicate on any number of tablets, and likely the app makers would make something like 1,2 Switch cost $1 or even free ... this is the problem Nintendo is going to have chasing that audience again, the rules have changed and no one will pay $50 a pop for that when they can get the same experience on a tablet for free.

Samsung I bet will have their own Joycon knock off that works with Android tablets and phones within 12-15 months if the Switch has any kind of real market success and someone, maybe even Apple themselves will make something for the iPad/iPhone as well. I'm not even sure you would even need Joycons to rip off an idea like 1,2 Switch, it could even just use the camera on the tablet to determine who "wins" (seems arbitrary even in a lot of the Switch games). 

Nobody will buy a $50 cazualz game when they can pay $50 for a ripoff joycon ($100 for 2?) and buy smartphone apps at $1. Is that what you're saying? Why a ripoff joycon and not the real thing? I'm sure Nintendo wouldn't mind if every smartphone/tablet owner bought 2 joycons each.

EA could have released a wiimote/wii sports for ps2/3/360 but they didn't did they?

I'm saying it's an easy idea to copy and not only that it could be done for a lot cheaper than what Nintendo is asking for. Any tablet can do a 1,2 Switch type game, you probably could even do something like that without a controller and just use the tablet camera. 

MS did release Kinect, and it was hugely successful for them, infact I think the Wii basically only had a couple of months after Kinect where it ever sold more than the XBox 360 in NPD sales tracking ever again. 

If Switch is very successful I think you will see greater focus on physical controllers for existing tablets and phones. Right now it's a bit of a niche market, but if tablet makers see Switch having some success, they will copy it with more "official" solutions IMO (ie: you could see tablets shipping with physical controllers right in the box so that users don't have to buy some weird third party accessorie ... I could see Samsung in particular doing this). 



Alkibiádēs said:
outlawauron said:

The games that the Vita has? It's fun to rail on the vita since the games are niche, but it still gets more games released in the West than the 3DS for the past several years.

and really, the idea of Sony getting back into the handheld market seems silly. Not going to happen.

Too bad nobody buys them. 

Enough people buy them to finance their ports to Steam and then some. There is a very dedicated, small market on Vita that some publishers have tapped into. Doesn't make the Vita a big success, but several games would have bombed without the platform.



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Soundwave said:

Actually I don't even buy the "it has no competetion" ... it has no competetion until it's successful, if it shows success, then it likely will be copied like crazy.

Just because Sony may not make a Vita 2, I mean you look at 1,2 Switch ... that's an experience that could easily be ripped off and played on any tablet, all you would need is a $50 Joycon knock-off that could work with an iPad, iPhone, and hundreds of millions of Android phones and tablets out there. It could even work with smartphones and you'd have the same experience basically, just have a bunch of inane mini-games.

The app could be free or $1-$2, the controllers could be $50-$60, that would beat out the Switch which costs $350 if that's all the type of gaming you want. 

That's why Nintendo needs core gamers, whether you like them or not, all that mini-game shit is easy as pie to copy and replicate on any number of tablets, and likely the app makers would make something like 1,2 Switch cost $1 or even free ... this is the problem Nintendo is going to have chasing that audience again, the rules have changed and no one will pay $50 a pop for that when they can get the same experience on a tablet for free.

Samsung I bet will have their own Joycon knock off that works with Android tablets and phones within 12-15 months if the Switch has any kind of real market success and someone, maybe even Apple themselves will make something for the iPad/iPhone as well. I'm not even sure you would even need Joycons to rip off an idea like 1,2 Switch, it could even just use the camera on the tablet to determine who "wins" (seems arbitrary even in a lot of the Switch games). 

Zoom out, and look at the bigger picture. You are reducing the 3DS successor to a collection of mini-games, completely ignoring the fact that the 3DS pleased the hardcore gamer. Why can't the Switch please them as well? In fact, the Switch is in a better position to please that same gamer, especially when the price comes down. So the success of the Switch is almost guaranteed once it becomes a viable 3DS replacement, if some of the Wii audience comes back, that's a plus, but not a necessity. 



NATO said:
Alkibiádēs said:

Too bad nobody buys them. 

982 9,049 14,284 29,949
1,922 3,245 1,126 6,895

Given that it's so poorly supported by Sony it's selling quite well, even now.

No is not selling quite well at all, is the WiiU the one that is not selling shit since is out of production and NX is coming in 2 weeks, but that doesn't make the Vita numbers any better.



LurkerJ said:
Soundwave said:

Actually I don't even buy the "it has no competetion" ... it has no competetion until it's successful, if it shows success, then it likely will be copied like crazy.

Just because Sony may not make a Vita 2, I mean you look at 1,2 Switch ... that's an experience that could easily be ripped off and played on any tablet, all you would need is a $50 Joycon knock-off that could work with an iPad, iPhone, and hundreds of millions of Android phones and tablets out there. It could even work with smartphones and you'd have the same experience basically, just have a bunch of inane mini-games.

The app could be free or $1-$2, the controllers could be $50-$60, that would beat out the Switch which costs $350 if that's all the type of gaming you want. 

That's why Nintendo needs core gamers, whether you like them or not, all that mini-game shit is easy as pie to copy and replicate on any number of tablets, and likely the app makers would make something like 1,2 Switch cost $1 or even free ... this is the problem Nintendo is going to have chasing that audience again, the rules have changed and no one will pay $50 a pop for that when they can get the same experience on a tablet for free.

Samsung I bet will have their own Joycon knock off that works with Android tablets and phones within 12-15 months if the Switch has any kind of real market success and someone, maybe even Apple themselves will make something for the iPad/iPhone as well. I'm not even sure you would even need Joycons to rip off an idea like 1,2 Switch, it could even just use the camera on the tablet to determine who "wins" (seems arbitrary even in a lot of the Switch games). 

Zoom out, and look at the bigger picture. You are reducing the 3DS successor to a collection of mini-games, completely ignoring the fact that the 3DS pleased the hardcore gamer. Why can't the Switch please them as well? In fact, the Switch is in a better position to please that same gamer, especially when the price comes down. So the success of the Switch is almost guaranteed once it becomes a viable 3DS replacement, if some of the Wii audience comes back, that's a plus, but not a necessity. 

I've said that many times, remember I was saying Nintendo would favor a hybrid design over a 2-system set up that most of this board thought was coming and that emphasis would be on putting it down and having people gather around and play together. This is all before the official unveiling. 

So I get what Nintendo is doing. The design was somewhat predictable. 

I'm just saying it's also a fairly easy idea to copy especailly if they think they are going to bank heavily again on that casual crowd, they are going to get undercut by cheaper tablet makers and software developers that copy things like 1,2 Switch and give away for free or $1. Nintendo should be wary of that. And I've said many times as well the existing 3DS base is basically the main market for the Switch.