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Forums - Sales Discussion - Shigeru Miyamoto: "In the world of fun, there's only number one."

outlawauron on 15 February 2017
Alkibiádēs said:
outlawauron said:

The games that the Vita has? It's fun to rail on the vita since the games are niche, but it still gets more games released in the West than the 3DS for the past several years.

and really, the idea of Sony getting back into the handheld market seems silly. Not going to happen.

Too bad nobody buys them. 

Enough people buy them to finance their ports to Steam and then some. There is a very dedicated, small market on Vita that some publishers have tapped into. Doesn't make the Vita a big success, but several games would have bombed without the platform.



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LurkerJ on 15 February 2017
Soundwave said:

Actually I don't even buy the "it has no competetion" ... it has no competetion until it's successful, if it shows success, then it likely will be copied like crazy.

Just because Sony may not make a Vita 2, I mean you look at 1,2 Switch ... that's an experience that could easily be ripped off and played on any tablet, all you would need is a $50 Joycon knock-off that could work with an iPad, iPhone, and hundreds of millions of Android phones and tablets out there. It could even work with smartphones and you'd have the same experience basically, just have a bunch of inane mini-games.

The app could be free or $1-$2, the controllers could be $50-$60, that would beat out the Switch which costs $350 if that's all the type of gaming you want. 

That's why Nintendo needs core gamers, whether you like them or not, all that mini-game shit is easy as pie to copy and replicate on any number of tablets, and likely the app makers would make something like 1,2 Switch cost $1 or even free ... this is the problem Nintendo is going to have chasing that audience again, the rules have changed and no one will pay $50 a pop for that when they can get the same experience on a tablet for free.

Samsung I bet will have their own Joycon knock off that works with Android tablets and phones within 12-15 months if the Switch has any kind of real market success and someone, maybe even Apple themselves will make something for the iPad/iPhone as well. I'm not even sure you would even need Joycons to rip off an idea like 1,2 Switch, it could even just use the camera on the tablet to determine who "wins" (seems arbitrary even in a lot of the Switch games). 

Zoom out, and look at the bigger picture. You are reducing the 3DS successor to a collection of mini-games, completely ignoring the fact that the 3DS pleased the hardcore gamer. Why can't the Switch please them as well? In fact, the Switch is in a better position to please that same gamer, especially when the price comes down. So the success of the Switch is almost guaranteed once it becomes a viable 3DS replacement, if some of the Wii audience comes back, that's a plus, but not a necessity. 



Goodnightmoon on 15 February 2017
NATO said:
Alkibiádēs said:

Too bad nobody buys them. 
982 9,049 14,284 29,949
1,922 3,245 1,126 6,895

Given that it's so poorly supported by Sony it's selling quite well, even now.

No is not selling quite well at all, is the WiiU the one that is not selling shit since is out of production and NX is coming in 2 weeks, but that doesn't make the Vita numbers any better.



Soundwave on 15 February 2017
LurkerJ said:
Soundwave said:

Actually I don't even buy the "it has no competetion" ... it has no competetion until it's successful, if it shows success, then it likely will be copied like crazy.

Just because Sony may not make a Vita 2, I mean you look at 1,2 Switch ... that's an experience that could easily be ripped off and played on any tablet, all you would need is a $50 Joycon knock-off that could work with an iPad, iPhone, and hundreds of millions of Android phones and tablets out there. It could even work with smartphones and you'd have the same experience basically, just have a bunch of inane mini-games.

The app could be free or $1-$2, the controllers could be $50-$60, that would beat out the Switch which costs $350 if that's all the type of gaming you want. 

That's why Nintendo needs core gamers, whether you like them or not, all that mini-game shit is easy as pie to copy and replicate on any number of tablets, and likely the app makers would make something like 1,2 Switch cost $1 or even free ... this is the problem Nintendo is going to have chasing that audience again, the rules have changed and no one will pay $50 a pop for that when they can get the same experience on a tablet for free.

Samsung I bet will have their own Joycon knock off that works with Android tablets and phones within 12-15 months if the Switch has any kind of real market success and someone, maybe even Apple themselves will make something for the iPad/iPhone as well. I'm not even sure you would even need Joycons to rip off an idea like 1,2 Switch, it could even just use the camera on the tablet to determine who "wins" (seems arbitrary even in a lot of the Switch games). 

Zoom out, and look at the bigger picture. You are reducing the 3DS successor to a collection of mini-games, completely ignoring the fact that the 3DS pleased the hardcore gamer. Why can't the Switch please them as well? In fact, the Switch is in a better position to please that same gamer, especially when the price comes down. So the success of the Switch is almost guaranteed once it becomes a viable 3DS replacement, if some of the Wii audience comes back, that's a plus, but not a necessity. 

I've said that many times, remember I was saying Nintendo would favor a hybrid design over a 2-system set up that most of this board thought was coming and that emphasis would be on putting it down and having people gather around and play together. This is all before the official unveiling. 

So I get what Nintendo is doing. The design was somewhat predictable. 

I'm just saying it's also a fairly easy idea to copy especailly if they think they are going to bank heavily again on that casual crowd, they are going to get undercut by cheaper tablet makers and software developers that copy things like 1,2 Switch and give away for free or $1. Nintendo should be wary of that. And I've said many times as well the existing 3DS base is basically the main market for the Switch. 



NATO on 15 February 2017
Goodnightmoon said:
NATO said:
982 9,049 14,284 29,949
1,922 3,245 1,126 6,895

Given that it's so poorly supported by Sony it's selling quite well, even now.

No is not selling quite well at all, is the WiiU the one that is not selling shit since is out of production and NX is coming in 2 weeks, but that doesn't make the Vita numbers any better.

Name a high profile game released in 2016 for vita without googling.

and still selling 30k a week, I call that quite well for a handheld so poorly supported, hell the last ps experience didn't even spend any time to acknowledge its existence.

you can't on the one hand say nobody buys them and then wave away 30k/week like it's nothing



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Goodnightmoon on 15 February 2017
NATO said:
Goodnightmoon said:

No is not selling quite well at all, is the WiiU the one that is not selling shit since is out of production and NX is coming in 2 weeks, but that doesn't make the Vita numbers any better.

Name a high profile game released in 2016 for vita without googling.

and still selling 30k a week, I call that quite well for a handheld so poorly supported, hell the last ps experience didn't even spend any time to acknowledge its existence.

you can't on the one hand say nobody buys them and then wave away 30k/week like it's nothing

I don't need to, I imagine Minecraft alone is more than enough to keep those anemic sales, mostly in Japan. At least until Switch releases.



Pyro as Bill on 15 February 2017
Soundwave said:

I'm saying it's an easy idea to copy and not only that it could be done for a lot cheaper than what Nintendo is asking for. Any tablet can do a 1,2 Switch type game, you probably could even do something like that without a controller and just use the tablet camera. 

MS did release Kinect, and it was hugely successful for them, infact I think the Wii basically only had a couple of months after Kinect where it ever sold more than the XBox 360 in NPD sales tracking ever again. 

If Switch is very successful I think you will see greater focus on physical controllers for existing tablets and phones. Right now it's a bit of a niche market, but if tablet makers see Switch having some success, they will copy it with more "official" solutions IMO (ie: you could see tablets shipping with physical controllers right in the box so that users don't have to buy some weird third party accessorie ... I could see Samsung in particular doing this). 

Flapping your arms doesn't make you a bird.

I've lost track of the amount of times people have thought Nintendo's gimmicks and games can easily be copied/improved upon. Whether it's 2d or 3d platformers, kart racers, handheld competitors, motion control they all end up dead in the end.

Kinect is funny because it was basically a one hit wonder that had MS convinced they could be Nintendo. I bet MS wishes they'd never touched it. It also forced MS to save on power at the cost of Kinect 2 which meant Sony could hold back too. Now they're both making mid gen upgrades. Kinect didn't just kill Wii (debateable), it killed XB1 too.



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LurkerJ on 15 February 2017
Soundwave said:
LurkerJ said:

Zoom out, and look at the bigger picture. You are reducing the 3DS successor to a collection of mini-games, completely ignoring the fact that the 3DS pleased the hardcore gamer. Why can't the Switch please them as well? In fact, the Switch is in a better position to please that same gamer, especially when the price comes down. So the success of the Switch is almost guaranteed once it becomes a viable 3DS replacement, if some of the Wii audience comes back, that's a plus, but not a necessity. 

I've said that many times, remember I was saying Nintendo would favor a hybrid design over a 2-system set up that most of this board thought was coming and that emphasis would be on putting it down and having people gather around and play together. This is all before the official unveiling. 

So I get what Nintendo is doing. The design was somewhat predictable. 

I'm just saying it's also a fairly easy idea to copy especailly if they think they are going to bank heavily again on that casual crowd, they are going to get undercut by cheaper tablet makers and software developers that copy things like 1,2 Switch and give away for free or $1. Nintendo should be wary of that. And I've said many times as well the existing 3DS base is basically the main market for the Switch. 

Copying the hardware is easy. Switch isn't just hardware. A collection of IPs that took Nintendo decades to build, the same collection that successfuly pushed the 3DS to success, and the same collection that will push its successor. Don't quote me saying the Wii U failed, nothing could've pushed that turd, besides, in the handheld space, the equation is different; third party AAA titles don't leave their thumb on the scale. So their absence is advantageous to Nintendo's handhelds, and a hindrance to SONY's.

Assuming SONY decides to release a new handheld, any new studio that SONY opens is better off supporting the already successful PS4. The Switch success will be in line with that of the 3DS, the pie will be big, but not big enough to push SONY, or any other company, to want to chew on some of it. SONY's main concern now is selling PSN subs and keeping those subs going for as long as possible, which is why I expect the PS5 to be fully backward compatible with the PS4, and it's why I don't SONY will sacrifice a single game from their studios to support a potential future handheld, that game better heads to their home consoles differentiating their brand further from the Xbox. 

Apple probably looks at the dedicated gaming business and laughs it off. Samsung loves to copy alright, but their obsession is to follow Apple's footsteps. I just don't think there is any company who would enter the risky dedicated gaming market at this point besides the 3 established ones. Maybe Valve's next attempt will be disruptive, but if that happens, their guns will be most likely aimed at PS/Xbox.



Agente42 on 10 January 2020

Up, please.

Good topic, great argument, and lots Nintendo doomed replies. 



StreaK on 10 January 2020
pray4mojo said:
Soundwave said:

It's a nice PR spin, but for those of us who actually remember a time when Nintendo meant great Nintendo 1st, 2nd, AND all the 3rd party support in the world, it rings kinda hollow. The only difference is now we have fewer software diversity on Nintendo platforms and long droughts neither of which is "fun", nor is Nintendo's obsession with trying to win back the mini-game audience, it's more desperate than original in a way, that was original *10 years* ago. 1,2 Switch is something that could have been on the original Wii and it looks inferior to even Wii Sports ... I personally don't call that progress. 

There is a number 1 and it's this:

 

You obviously took what he said on face value. He didn't mean being unique makes you the market leader. He meant that by being "one of a kind" you're atuomatically number one at what you're doing because there's simply no one else competeing. The PS4 is the market leader of the 8th generation, but it's been done before. It's not the "first" in that regard. Sony has released the same basic product since the PS1. They didn't even change the controller until this generation lol. They're followers, not creative leaders. Nintendo are the creative leaders as far as hardware goes. Does that mean they're always the market leader? Nope, not at all. But creatively, hell yeah. They're always taking risks and trying something new. 

Yeah, ok, fine....

Making something different for the sake of different isn't always the way to go. 

What I like about the Sony approach is the fact they have established the "PS" as like a home/"Station." If you like gaming on their console best, then chances are you're always going to like gaming there because it feels so good and familiar. Sony are the ONLY one's that ever took an approach like this. That's probably why beginning with PS1 the PlayStation has always been my "main" console of choice. I was never about "brands" when it came to gaming until PS1. I don't think a gaming console has ever impressed so much. It felt so good to play on, the console itself was so successful that I didn't even think twice about going on board with the PS2. I knew what I was getting.

Yeah, PS3 only suffered due to the high price but the console itself was typical Sony quality. But yeah, in the end, PlayStation is my gaming "home." It has become so familiar now to me I literally cannot even begin to imagine playing with another controller or browsing through an interface that isn't designed by Sony.