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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - I've changed my stance. Nintendo needs to go 3rd party

Nah. I think you should simply adopt an other console brand, and let other people enjoy the Switch and Nintendo's games. No reason for Nintendo to go third party when they're still a profitable company despite the Wii U's blunder.



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Nogamez said:
Don't agree at all. I like that Nintendo offer a unique gaming experience to xbox answer playstation. I just buy both.

Keep in mind that not everyone has the income to afford both. This is what the topic is about...potential sales base, not whether it's buyable or what.

I'll tell a little anecdote here. It actually involves meeting an old firend I used to play SNES and N64 with as a teen. She was a mad Nintendo fan too. It was last December. She was looking to buy a first console for her kids and went with a PS4. Of course this shocked me a little, but I was also intrigued. I did bring up the past, about how we were big on Nintendo back then. I asked why the decision. Her response was something I never took into account....Nintendo's existing library barely depreciates in value, and she can't afford the games, even if they're years old.

I saw her point, as at the very same store, we checked out 3 titles around $20 on the Xbox one (which helped in my decision to get one), whereas Nintendo's cheapest title was Twilight Princess....in 2016...for the Wii...for AU$50. Even the remake on the WiiU was only AU$20 more!

That's where I realised that people struggling on low incomes actually DO get turned away by Nintendo's offerings due to the high software price.



I'm going to say tat agree with your bullet points, but I didn't read everything.
And I don't agree that Nintendo should go third party, but good points dude



then good night because this will never happen



REQUIESCAT IN PACE

I Hate REMASTERS

I Hate PLAYSTATION PLUS

If I had a dollar for every time I heard something like that in the last 10 years....

I don't think Nintendo does even consider such a move. Either they will continue to make money with their own consoles or they will look for a completely new market and just quit gaming as we know it altogether. Nintendo games will never come to PlayStation or Xbox, deal with it.



Official member of VGC's Nintendo family, approved by the one and only RolStoppable. I feel honored.

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I wish someone could tell me where this sense of entitlement comes from... Because something doesn't fit an agenda it should cease to exist in its normal state, really! Guess what nothing currently has enticed me to buy a PS4, but I don't hope and wish for Sony to go 3rd party to play Uncharted...

It just means that what's available on their system currently doesn't interest me but that could change in the future. So in Nintendo's case if people find the price of entry for the Switch to steep then it's just not that compelling enough of a device for you. Why should they go 3rd party because of that? I bet there are many people here making very similar comments as the OP and they themselves rushed out willingly to buy the PSVR and or Vita at launch with no sweat.

Those people should be the first to get out of threads like these because it's hypocritical to even have an opinion on this. Reason why I say this is because asking for a company to go 3rd party is just a passive/agressive way to say that you really like their games but just don't want to buy their hardware for some reason. But if any person in this thread went out and purchased those other 2 Sony systems I mentioned, then you have no problem putting down cash on something that will and has been poorly supported with software from the manufacturer.

Many early fears existed that the Switch might be some overpriced toy from Nintendo again, but everyone that has laid their hands on this device just rave about how high quality it really is. So the real question is do people think this device is to expensive because it has Nintendo's name attached to it? Or would we be seeing very different responses if it were a Sony, Apple or Samsung product?...



mountaindewslave said:
fordy said:

"They claim that the handheld market is dead (absurd, the 3DS is selling quite well, in fact it sold better in 2016 than 2015, despite being 5 years old), they claim that the Switch is SPECIFICALLY the 3DS successor (when its the successor to both the Wii U and 3DS, its a combination hybrid),"

I said the portable market was dwindling. Am I wrong? Take a look at the 3DS sales compared to the DS. Even if it's selling better right now *cough*Sun&Moon*cough*, it would still need to sell significantly more to achieve a similar level to last gen.

 

Nintendo provided the capital in the joint venture. You can't say it's impossible because everything has their price, including a big franchise. While Pokemon might sell 10s of millions on a dedicated handheld, any push from a major phone producer (with the phone base in the hundreds of millions) would still garner interest among stakeholders, especially after Pokemon Go. You seem to forget that Nintendo owned a good portion of Squaresoft, but that didn't stop them jumping ship to Sony. Nintendo sold their stake shortly after the news.

For the online stuff, I'm going by the news that has already come out, on that 1. It will require a subscription fee for online play and 2. The "free" games will be monthly rentals only. Do you dispute these?

 

Tell me, are you going to provide some decent arguments, because that's the reason why I posted this in the first place. I'm not looking for the same kind of stuff that has already been addressed.

 

huge argument flaw to use DS sales numbers as the basis for your argument. The 3DS is actually selling relatively normal for Nintendo's handheld systems. Similar to the GBA and Gameboy Color. The original Gameboy had an extremely long lifetime (from like 1989- to possibly 2000) in terms of software so is a difficult comparison too. The DS was an anamoly, just like the PS2. That'd be like someone claiming the home console market was dying when you compared PS2 hardware sales to PS3 sales (which is a biggg difference)

the Squaresoft comparison is not equivalent, Nintendo owns an undisclosed amount of Creatures Inc or whatever which owns a decent portion of the Pok Company. The odds are Nintendo owns well over 50% of the Pokemon Company. Otherwise the Pok Comp would operate somewhat indepently from Nintendo (which in terms of company big decisions they don't)

The DS was not an "anomaly", it was the result of an expanding market for portables at the time. The fact that the 3DS is selling on par rates with the GBA (which I could argue had a much shorter lifespan for similar numbers) is alarming to say the least. Why did this happen? Try to guess what happened in the years between say....2008 and now...

The Squaresoft comparison is VERY equivalent. If a company is backed into a corner, and realises that their projects cannot make money on one platform, they WILL move. Nintendo itself has stockholders, who grow increasingly insistent on Nintendo turning 3rd party. Why else would they even ENTERTAIN the notion of Pokemon Go? 



Renna Hazel said:
fordy said:

"They claim that the handheld market is dead (absurd, the 3DS is selling quite well, in fact it sold better in 2016 than 2015, despite being 5 years old), they claim that the Switch is SPECIFICALLY the 3DS successor (when its the successor to both the Wii U and 3DS, its a combination hybrid),"

I said the portable market was dwindling. Am I wrong? Take a look at the 3DS sales compared to the DS. Even if it's selling better right now *cough*Sun&Moon*cough*, it would still need to sell significantly more to achieve a similar level to last gen.

 

Nintendo provided the capital in the joint venture. You can't say it's impossible because everything has their price, including a big franchise. While Pokemon might sell 10s of millions on a dedicated handheld, any push from a major phone producer (with the phone base in the hundreds of millions) would still garner interest among stakeholders, especially after Pokemon Go. You seem to forget that Nintendo owned a good portion of Squaresoft, but that didn't stop them jumping ship to Sony. Nintendo sold their stake shortly after the news.

For the online stuff, I'm going by the news that has already come out, on that 1. It will require a subscription fee for online play and 2. The "free" games will be monthly rentals only. Do you dispute these?

 

Tell me, are you going to provide some decent arguments, because that's the reason why I posted this in the first place. I'm not looking for the same kind of stuff that has already been addressed.

 

For the record, Nintendo owns a controlling stake in Pokemon (more than 50 percent). This is not the same situation as Squaresoft because Nintendo did not have enough shares to dictate what decisions the company could make. 

See my reply above



If the Switch doesn't work out, they will probably go 3rd party.

But I'm glad Nintendo is putting its focus on one device, versus a portable and handheld. If you think its too expensive, wait for price cuts and a bundled game.



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mountaindewslave said:
fordy said:

 

You're missing the entire point of this. Would the average person see it as worth over twice as much just for added portability? Not with the way the 3DS sold at full price. Not with the way the WiiU sold at it's (stuck) price. Ironically, the only way they could sell the original 3DS was to CUT THE PRICE AND SELL IT AT A LOSS! Do you see a pattern emerging?

I never said that me being a fan makes it any more or less viable. However, I have been around the games industry quite a few years, even close to a point of entering it as an indie developer. I'm comfortable in my knowledge of software, hardware and economics to stand by my prediction. And hey, like I said it's a prediction. If it turns out that I'm wrong and the Switch sells well, then congratulations, the justification of the Switch's success will prove to Nintendo that it should just stick with underpowered hardware. 

"as for your last point- if the argument is software profits, Nintendo sells more software than any other company on the planet (as far as in house developed vs. any other company). Regardless of hardware sales."

Yes, and that's IN SPITE of Nintendo limiting themselves to a small userbase. Imagine the amount of software they could sell on a base of hundreds of millions...which nullifies your argument about the licensing costs, because increased sales from a larger sales base would more than cover those costs. 

I already covered Sega in the OP, they were in serious financial trouble when they moved. This is why Nintendo should make the move now and not when they're as broke as Sega was. Ever since the N64, Nintendo's portables have been their firewall, an assured income, but with a dwindling portable userbase, they can no longer rely on that. That's why they only recently made their first loss ever.

worth over twice as much? we've been through this, I don't know about YOUR market, but in the USA the Wii U still is sold for $300. The Switch is also going to be $300. At least for the USA you're getting a better spec system WITH hybrid capabilities for the same price as the last system. Obviously that holds some merit.

I don't think the 3DS was ever sold at a loss but that's neither here nor there.

predictions are fine but your original post states a load of opinions about things that haven't been fully announced (online services, battery life (not tested), third party support (not fully seen yet), etc.).

no, actually you're fully assuming that Nintendo would magically have that much bigger of an audience by going third party. We can safely say that SOME percent of fans of Nintendo games are buying their systems, probably a good percent. Even if Nintendo sold DOUBLE the software numbers if they went third party (and that's probably as good as you could expect it to be) they probably would literally take in like HALF as much total revenue. And by total revenue I'm talking the split of software profit with the hardware manuafacturer, the no longer selling accessories (they make a lot on that), the no longer having a virtual console, etc. etc. etc.

Your assumption about Nintendo making as much profits from going third party are based on NOTHING except for a total userbase number which is useless if the added userbase has people who just like Call of Duty and Minecraft. Just saying. Its like suggesting that if Capcom releases Monster Hunter outside of Japan and on ALL consoles, that suddenly, just because they add like 50 million users, that the Monster Hunter sales would drastically go up. That's not the case at all because a game like that is A) popular in Japan and B) much more popular on a certain system because of Local multiplayer (3DS). 

The same could be analyzed regarding Nintendo. Its not a matter of simply adding a big userbase and making insane sales. If that were the case then, again, Sega would have killed it immediately when going third party as their userbody exploded. Accessory sales and having full control over your software sales is most likely going to create a lot more profit than sharing your software ONLY revenue with somebody else

Same price, over 4 years later, with very similar specs. If hybrid is the only thing it's gained for the same price, what's the point? You do see why many will find that unappealing, right (especially 3rd party devs)?

The 3DS was sold at a loss after its first price cut, which was made in response to sluggish sales when it was full price. Tell me again how plugging this device into your TV will make consumers forget all about those costs...

Yes, because predictions are made WITH THE CURRENT POSSIBLE INFORMATION AT THE TIME. Nintendo might find another 2-8 hours in the battery, but what are the chances of that, after announcing the current numbers? If anything, giving underrepresented figures would be a marketing mistake, and I know that they know better than that. You should too...Same goes with the 3rd party list. They'd have added them if they had more.

They really don't make as much profit on hardware as you think. The fact that they make ANY profit on it is good. Amiibo sales helped, but they're slowly dwindling.

It's actually very safe to assume that there will be increased sales of software by going 3rd party. Why? Because like it or not, the majority of consumers don't like to buy hardware to get the offerings of one company. These are potential customers that Nintendo never gets, and the more 3rd parties that shun Nintendo, the more people will follow them to the source of lots more developers. Diminished user base for Nintendo platform, rinse repeat. Even people who have no interest in buying a Nintendo game can be persuaded through advertising easier if it was on their system and not another system. EVERY person in a console userbase is a potential customer.

Your assumptions are just as ridiculous, but let me back mine up with some logic. As it stands now, The WiiU has 15% of the console market. Assuming that EVERY Nintendo console owner owns another system (that's worst case scenario), that's 70% of the market, totally untapped. Compared to the WiiU, that's almost 5 times the userbase. It's not outrageous to assume that Nintendo could achieve at least TWICE the sales on a market 5 times as big, and if they do, that's more than their software expense incurred. Why? Because license costs don't take 50%. I know this for a fact. This does NOT take into account the reduced costs from working with the x64 architecture over PowerPC (there's a reason why Sony and Microsoft went with it), as well as access to every major gaming engine (I know that Nintendo roll their own, but it's still a potential cost saving in some areas). Hardware is very negligible, as the majority of Nintendo's bread and butter comes from software, so a very small increase in software would more than account for the loss in hardware. Objections?

Did you even read the OP? Did you even read any of my replies? Sega were in dire straits when they went 3rd party. Their talent had already jumped ship and the company was near broke. Once again...THIS IS WHY NINTENDO SHOULD ACT NOW, WHILE THEY HAVE MONEY AND NOT LATER!