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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - I've changed my stance. Nintendo needs to go 3rd party

Hapuc12 said:
fordy said:

You believe that tying people to a hardware purchase is considered good business? I could go to the same extreme as you and label you as a Corporate Fascist who argues for special protections for certain industries. It's funny because you advocate competition, but strictly insist that games be tied to consoles. Are you also a fan of cable companies and their monopolies, because it's the same thing.

Nope. In the 90s, we got games like Final Fantasy 6 and Chrono Trigger, which have won numerous "Best game of all time" awards. I don't know why you raised this point. There is no relevance to this whatsoever.

So you're saying that innovation will happen no matter what, yet you're trying to argue the fact that innovation can only happen with competition. You can't argue for both sides of this, you do realise that, right?

Try to stick to the case in point, and not diverge on some weird, abstract arc that contradicts itself, please.

Mhmm defending AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH better to be a corporate fascist and want for your Company you like to succeede then to create industry with Monopoly and no inovation.

Try to stop being butthurt and try to come up with point till now your points don't hold candle to anything.

You came up with those points with those games holy shit dude.

Innovation happenes when companies have competition and when companies want to create better ecosystem for there costumers so they don't lose their costumers.

But you are a Socialst talking with people like you is like talking to a brick wall.

So now that none of your points have made any sense, nor you have made any logical path to point to debunking anything on the OP, you've resorted to insults. Why am I not surprised?



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Hapuc12 said:
potato_hamster said:

They spent $20 million on development, advertisement and maintenance. Based on what? Your own wishful thinking? Their advertising budget alone was definitely higher than that based on the advertising budgets of other contemporary games. EA says they spend 2-3 times their development budget on marketing, If Nintendo follows suit (and there's no real reason to think they don't) then you're essentially arguing that Nintendo spent between $5-8 million making MK8. Some indie games cost more than that to make.

i Just said they spend 20 mil on the game not advertising and it's not that much of a wishwull thinking they have the Character models for everything already riged and done the only thing they had to create was tracks and few other things engine was in house.

No i don't know how much they spend on Ads and other stuff i just said how much they spend on the game development.

This is just such baseless, senseless speculation.

You actually have no idea how much effort Nintendo put into developing Mario Kart 8. Are the character models the same as the ones used in MK7? Or did they need to re-do the models? If if they look exactly the same on the surface, they could have completely different geometry, use completely different animation rigs, the game could use a totally different engine than MK7, or a heavily modified one. You have no idea the extent of the team that worked on this. You have no idea how long it was in development, how much time they put into prototyping and developing other gameplay features that might have been cut from the game. You don't have the slightest clue.

You're just completely trivializing years of work a team poured into this game because it looks similar to the last Mario Kart game.

Just a quick question to test your knowledge (because I actually know people that work on this): How many people do you think work on FIFA (an annual sports series) every year, and what kind of budget do you think goes into the development of that game every year?



fordy said:
Hapuc12 said:

Mhmm defending AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH better to be a corporate fascist and want for your Company you like to succeede then to create industry with Monopoly and no inovation.

Try to stop being butthurt and try to come up with point till now your points don't hold candle to anything.

You came up with those points with those games holy shit dude.

Innovation happenes when companies have competition and when companies want to create better ecosystem for there costumers so they don't lose their costumers.

But you are a Socialst talking with people like you is like talking to a brick wall.

So now that none of your points have made any sense, nor you have made any logical path to point to debunking anything on the OP, you've resorted to insults. Why am I not surprised?

i don't care dude i said you are a socialst because those are the same points that socialsm uses and you just confirmed it yourself.

My points made sence you just don't get it.

But the reality,sweet reality not LALA land is Nintendo is not going third party,Sony is Not going third Party and,Microsoft isn't going third party.

You like it or not you have to buy the system if you want play the games,this conversation is done.



I think the Switch will perform better than the WiiU and Ninty won't go 3rd party..



                
       ---Member of the official Squeezol Fanclub---

potato_hamster said:
Hapuc12 said:

i Just said they spend 20 mil on the game not advertising and it's not that much of a wishwull thinking they have the Character models for everything already riged and done the only thing they had to create was tracks and few other things engine was in house.

No i don't know how much they spend on Ads and other stuff i just said how much they spend on the game development.

This is just such baseless, senseless speculation.

You actually have no idea how much effort Nintendo put into developing Mario Kart 8. Are the character models the same as the ones used in MK7? Or did they need to re-do the models? If if they look exactly the same on the surface, they could have completely different geometry, use completely different animation rigs, the game could use a totally different engine than MK7, or a heavily modified one. You have no idea the extent of the team that worked on this. You have no idea how long it was in development, how much time they put into prototyping and developing other gameplay features that might have been cut from the game. You don't have the slightest clue.

You're just completely trivializing years of work a team poured into this game because it looks similar to the last Mario Kart game.

Just a quick question to test your knowledge (because I actually know people that work on this): How many people do you think work on FIFA (an annual sports series) every year, and what kind of budget do you think goes into the development of that game every year?

i Don't know about 70-80 milion for the game,big game big budget with needing all the character models,maybe if they are using different engine,maybe about 100+ people i don't know how much studios work on those games i don't play fifa.

Mario kart 8 had i think it was 2 studios so about 80+ people but who knows.



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Hapuc12 said:
fordy said:

So now that none of your points have made any sense, nor you have made any logical path to point to debunking anything on the OP, you've resorted to insults. Why am I not surprised?

i don't care dude i said you are a socialst because those are the same points that socialsm uses and you just confirmed it yourself.

My points made sence you just don't get it.

But the reality,sweet reality not LALA land is Nintendo is not going third party,Sony is Not going third Party and,Microsoft isn't going third party.

You like it or not you have to buy the system if you want play the games,this conversation is done.

And I bet Sega is never going 3rd party too, right? Oops! Maybe Atari will do better....

Now, explain to me the "good business" in propping up inferior hardware with good games? If anything that is ANTI-competitive. The better hardware isn't winning out in that situation, and "competition" does nothing to solve it.

Seriously, it's simple economics. Please try to keep up. It's not that hard...



Oh boy, where to begin. 

1. It sounds to me like you guys in AUS are getting ripped off, big time. From what I've heard this would not be the first time, and won't be the last. Still sucks, though.

I think you're massively overestimating the cost of the Switch's fancy features, and underestimating Nintendo's stupidity when designing the Wii U. Yes, the gamepad was a major contributer to the expensive price, but they also used a heavily customized, unique, and expensive chip in the main console to preserve backwards compatibility. The whole design was a mess.

The Switch, on the other hand, has a Tegra chip, which is based on the most common CPU architecture available today, and has a couple of half-controllers with... what? A couple of extra rumble motors? There's nothing in there that wasn't already in the Wiimote besides a couple of small batteries. If the joycons are adding $15 to the base price I would be very surprised. You also keep saying they're "kinect like" in the thread, but there's no indication that this functions anything like the Kinect -- I mean, the lack of the camera is a dead givaway. The most expensive components of the Switch are without a doubt the SoC and screen.

2. Yes, the battery life is disappointing. External batteries will mitigate some of the sting, but I would much prefer 5-10hrs, as unrealistic as that might be for a device with these specs. Crossing my fingers for Nyko to make some kind of battery case.

3. The portable market has been dwindling for the past 7 years, but I think it's a bit of a stretch to assume that it will fade to nonexistence(no matter how much you want it to). We'll just have to wait to see where it flatlines. Smartphones have the specs, but as far as software goes you're hard pressed to find an experience as satisfying as most games on the GBA. There will always be a market of people who are willing to spend the extra money for the more fulfilling experiences made available by dedicated gaming hardware.

I also don't think Gamefreak, or Apple for that matter, can just "buy" more than half of their shares if Nintendo isn't willing to sell.

4. I'm going to take a "wait and see" approach to the online argument, buy yes. It looks really bad right now. Thankfully these things can improve with time.

I think you're making a mistake in assuming that the Switch will see software droughts like the Wii U, or even the Wii. That's the whole point of combining their handheld and console development. Nintendo was running into the same problem that Sony faced with the Vita: There are only so many resources to go around, and development on both the handheld and console front are simultaneously becoming exponentially more expensive. Ultimately, even Sony, who, if I might add has more, larger studios than Nintendo, had to make the decision to support their more successful front, and now Nintendo has done the same, except it reverse. There's also the happy fact that, unlike Sony, the majority of Nintendo's console offerings have the pick-up-and-play accessability that will make them work just fine on a handheld, with a couple exceptions. Good thing the Switch also functions as a bit of a console, too.

Honestly, as a person who prefers handheld gaming to console gaming, the Switch is a godsend. Phone gaming is a joke, in my humble opinion. Without the Switch there would be absolutely nothing to look forward to in this arena, besides stuff like the Smach Z and GPD Win. 



fordy said:
Hapuc12 said:

i don't care dude i said you are a socialst because those are the same points that socialsm uses and you just confirmed it yourself.

My points made sence you just don't get it.

But the reality,sweet reality not LALA land is Nintendo is not going third party,Sony is Not going third Party and,Microsoft isn't going third party.

You like it or not you have to buy the system if you want play the games,this conversation is done.

And I bet Sega is never going 3rd party too, right? Oops! Maybe Atari will do better....

Now, explain to me the "good business" in propping up inferior hardware with good games? If anything that is ANTI-competitive. The better hardware isn't winning out in that situation, and "competition" does nothing to solve it.

Seriously, it's simple economics. Please try to keep up. It's not that hard...

Yes because most of Sega's games are third party available on all consoles Persona/SMT/Yakuza/Warhammer 40K.

ahhhh PC gamer i should have known.



Hapuc12 said:
fordy said:

And I bet Sega is never going 3rd party too, right? Oops! Maybe Atari will do better....

Now, explain to me the "good business" in propping up inferior hardware with good games? If anything that is ANTI-competitive. The better hardware isn't winning out in that situation, and "competition" does nothing to solve it.

Seriously, it's simple economics. Please try to keep up. It's not that hard...

Yes because most of Sega's games are third party available on all consoles Persona/SMT/Yakuza/Warhammer 40K.

ahhhh PC gamer i should have known.

Answer the question, or don't bother to argue. Stop diverging.