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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - I've changed my stance. Nintendo needs to go 3rd party

fordy said:
Renna Hazel said:

No, it's the controller, why would I want that to be optional? That's like making an analog stick an optional function. When I purchse the console, I'll have a very capable controller. 

Plenty of games don't use all the buttons/features of any given controller, but having those features standard means developers are more likely to use them. 

How many developers used the motion control on the 3DS? The WiiU? Would they be considered the majority? Is it worth the extra $x to place it in there for everybody to have, even though a fraction of a fraction will end up using it? 

These many little costs are major contributors to costs taken elsewhere, such as matching the RAM of the competition, which would have made porting for 3rd parties much more straightforward.

Well like I said, I like that Nintendo offers something different. I have a PS4 and Xbox One, so the Switch getting third party ports does nothing for me. 

To answer your question, the majority of developers do not use motion controls on either of those platforms. They did on the Wii, and I think the form factor on the Switch is more welcoming to motion controls. I don't really like using the gamepad as a motion controller, not nearly as nature as using the Wiimote was. Joycons are the evolution of the Wiimote. 



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And before I go for the night, I just wanna say that Nintendo offers a nicer user experience in my opinion than Microsoft does. I really can't stand the updates and installs and UI lag on Xbox One. I don't think Nintendo should drop out to jump ship to that platform. Sometimes, specs in reality are different than on paper. For example, my 32 gigs of space on Wii U went much further than my 500 gigs on Xbox One, which can be used up with forced installs and 40+ gig game updates.

Nintendo certainly offers a different experience there. It's a give or take deal, but having the options is best.



Renna Hazel said:
fordy said:

How many developers used the motion control on the 3DS? The WiiU? Would they be considered the majority? Is it worth the extra $x to place it in there for everybody to have, even though a fraction of a fraction will end up using it? 

These many little costs are major contributors to costs taken elsewhere, such as matching the RAM of the competition, which would have made porting for 3rd parties much more straightforward.

Well like I said, I like that Nintendo offers something different. I have a PS4 and Xbox One, so the Switch getting third party ports does nothing for me. 

To answer your question, the majority of developers do not use motion controls on either of those platforms. They did on the Wii, and I think the form factor on the Switch is more welcoming to motion controls. I don't really like using the gamepad as a motion controller, not nearly as nature as using the Wiimote was. Joycons are the evolution of the Wiimote. 

I was watching some footage of "Arms" earlier today and the Joycons do look like they work killer for that game. I am not usually a huge fan of motion controls, but the idea that its totally optional (something that wasn't the case for many Wii games) and simply conveniently the control pieces regularly connected to the normal main controller make it more convenient and handy to try. With a Wii Mote it was like "herre you go, you have to use this". with the Joycons they look intuitive in the hands and and are just detachable pieces that look to function well as just part of the normal assembled controller AND potentially on their own for optional types of games

gives gamers choices



Renna Hazel said:
And before I go for the night, I just wanna say that Nintendo offers a nicer user experience in my opinion than Microsoft does. I really can't stand the updates and installs and UI lag on Xbox One. I don't think Nintendo should drop out to jump ship to that platform. Sometimes, specs in reality are different than on paper. For example, my 32 gigs of space on Wii U went much further than my 500 gigs on Xbox One, which can be used up with forced installs and 40+ gig game updates.

Nintendo certainly offers a different experience there. It's a give or take deal, but having the options is best.

40 GB updates? that's insane. I agree 100%. The more unique people in the hardware game the better. It would be like if either Apple or Samsung dropped out of the mobile market, that would be a big loss. competition usually boosts innovation and quality 



mountaindewslave said:
fordy said:

Because portability isn't a big, defining aspect that's considered enough to separate this console from its competitors. I could also say that smartphones are an even bigger portability factor, because people conveniently carry them around more often, and the base is much higher.

if you're seriously suggesting that portability for a console that can be played on a TV is not a massively attractive thing for consumers then you're crazy. I hated the Wii U conceptually because I saw no purpose for a big tablet controller to walk around the house with.

However- to be able to play games at beyond Wii U graphics (Breath of the Wild is looking gorgeous) on the go? on the train? sitting by a tree? I think almost universally people would agree that the Vita itself was a great system, and the Switch's power will be well beyond that but ALSO be able to be docked when you're at home for big screen gameplay

You claim that you've been gaming for decades, but act almost as if the hybrid concept is nothing. CONCEPTUALLY its nothing new, its been talked about- but its completely new as far as actually being employed because until now no one has been able to come remotely close to getting home console-esque graphics levels to be functional on a portable

Its an incredibly exciting prospect. Bear in mind 60 some million people bought the 3DS and it both was LESS Graphically powered AND obviously not a hybrid. 

 

There's already articles stating "no discernable difference" between the WiiU and Switch Zelda, but I digress, since it is in fact a port. However, for a port, it runs at 900p max. How will it go when some serious power is being requested of it? 

You know what bugs me? Playing outside under a tree for 2.5 hours on an adventure game (made to draw out lots of time) before having to rush in to plug it in again. I'm glad somebody brought up the Vita, because that proves that the Switch will not get any console AAA titles. The Vita proved that people wanted games on portables tailored for portables (stop and go action). Mixing the two in one market isn't exactly what's called an effective marketing strategy. If anything, playing a game from say, a portable front when it's designed more for a home front would just alienate parts of the userbase.

If you've ever worked in any office, the idea of "docking" is not new at all. I actually dock my gaming PC between my friends and my place frequently, AND play it on the go with 5 hours battery. Can it be more seamless? Of course! Are people willing to care about seamless docking, given the premium price, and incentiveof something less portable but more powerful? 

Keep in mind how many LESS people would have bought the 3DS if it remained at its original price. If Nintendo don't sell slightly more than the 3DS base, it should be considered a failure. Why? Because they've sacrificed one of their markets for nothing.



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zorg1000 said:
"I own all of the old consoles and still do. However, the Switch will be the first Nintendo console that I will most likely pass on."

I don't understand comments like this when the system isn't out, we don't know the full extent of its library or the system's features.

For all you know it could have a price cut, a redesign with a better battery, a bunch of games you want to play and excellent online services a year or two from now.

It just seems weird to have a predetermined mindset towards a device that isn't even out yet.

Switch's fate is predetermined. Look at the console cycle for the past... well probably since N64? We'll get a couple launch games, a mario game, and a Zelda game towards the end of its life. In between the B teams will make 1 game maybe 2 during this cycle. After year 3 active development for the machiine will end and all resources will be dedicated to the next machine. Years 4 and 5 of Switch will be a barren wasteland. Its pretty much been this cycle since N64. Even Wii their most successful home console was abandoned early.

Hard to say its not predetermined since they have followed the same cycle since the 90s.



Na, Sony will go third party in the long run. They are already preparing for this with shutting down their studios.



I 100% believe Nintendo needs to go 3rd party. They are leaving 10's of millions of sales of Mario, Mario Kart, Smash Brothers, and many other titles on the table, because they are locked to high priced devices with very small userbases. Releasing Nintendo games on PS4 and XBO would massivly increase the sales of all of their titles, and make revenues and profits explode. They would be looking at Wii level sales of all of their big franchises all the time.



Stop hate, let others live the life they were given. Everyone has their problems, and no one should have to feel ashamed for the way they were born. Be proud of who you are, encourage others to be proud of themselves. Learn, research, absorb everything around you. Nothing is meaningless, a purpose is placed on everything no matter how you perceive it. Discover how to love, and share that love with everything that you encounter. Help make existence a beautiful thing.

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10/03/2010 

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mountaindewslave said:
fordy said:

Because portability isn't a big, defining aspect that's considered enough to separate this console from its competitors. I could also say that smartphones are an even bigger portability factor, because people conveniently carry them around more often, and the base is much higher.

you have to consider the market you're in. Yes, in fact portability for a current gen type system is a GIGANTIC advantage when compared to the other systems on the market. The graphics might not be quite up to par however the Switch is indeed offerring something totally unique to what the Xbox and PS4 have

to bring in the conversation of cell phones and tablets is just absurd, neither of which have been optimized to play any particularly involved or recent games. People throw out phone specs all of the time but don't seem to realize that you can squeeze in a lot of nice numbers into a phone if its generally speaking running extremely soft programs that don't demand a lot of energy. Becuase they're not attempting to play advanced games or run big programs most phones don't have to worry about the same type of batteries or even potentially something like a fan

Which is why 3rd parties will shun it, unless it has the userbase. You mentioned development costs before, but what you're also missing is risk. Companies see that a device with a marketshare under 20% is too risky, because it would require a higher % of that userbase to buy the game, not to mention that they're in direct competition with Nintendo themselves for consumers' limited spending money. The Switch's portability will mean diddly squat if it doesn't get the 3rd party support. It will just end up being longer range WiiU.

You realise that several phones have Tegra chips in them, right? That's just nVidia's offering, too. They're no slouches when it comes to decent 3D, and people might see that as an advantage over a $470 dedicated device that might be a little bit more powerful, not to mention having to cart it around and charge it along with their phone.



mountaindewslave said:

it wasn't 'portable' enough? it wasn't portable AT ALL. It was portable down your hallway in your house. That's not a big perk. That's nothing new. Again, the Vita and Playstation do that already.

sorry but if the Wii U had had a tablet that was ALSO a handheld console it would have done much much better. In fact conceptually that seemed like what it SHOULD have been. the Wii U has plenty of problems, but its #1 problem is that it offered pretty much nothing people wanted. Most gamers don't want a tablet in their hands while they game on a TV.

also the biggest problem with the Wii U software wise wasn't third party support, that's always a problem with Nintendo platforms, it was a lack of FIRST party support. No Zelda. No Metroid. a divided software library between it and the 3DS.

The concept of a hybrid device hopefully alleviates this and enables Nintendo to put out more titles more frequently on one device. Obviously this is still left to be seen if it will occur.

Again, the 3DS is still selling well and the Switch is a hybrid but far more powerful than both the 3DS and Wii U (and Vita,for arguments sake). You act like like being a hybrid and by far the most powerful dedicated handheld device ever aren't selling points to consumers. Of course they are

The problem with the Wii U wasn't to have a tablet in your hand (off-TV play was a great feature), but the problems were that you did not know how a game would use a controller. It wasn't uncommon at all for you to have to use BOTH of the screens at the same time while playing, making the off-TV feature by itself useless. This is why Nintendo avertising for Switch emphases that when you take the tablet out of the dock, the TV is no longer in use. But yeah, the problems with gamepad were just problems with software in the end (just like all the other problems Nintendo have had lately).



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