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Forums - Nintendo - Different settings for docked / portable Switch modes spotted in Unreal Engine 4

I can see how this would be appealing to a lot of developers. Get a great game to run well in docked mode, and you've got a pretty straight path for a great handheld game as well. Can't wait til January.



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potato_hamster said:

Hilariously, it's actually far more complicated than the PS4 pro mode as developers don't really have to do any extra work to ensure the game functions properly on the PS4 Pro, nor do they have to do any additional QA. Sony does not require developers to take advantage of the additional performance, whereas a Switch developer won't have the opportunity to prevent their games from running in a portable mode.

Uh... Yeah they do.  Pro has 1080p minimum res requirement, nothing such exists on OG-spec PS4.
We have already seen Pro games with performance issues not seen in OG version, that is QA/optimization issue.
Sony does not allow devs to continue to release games only written for OG-spec (and run in compatability mode on Pro),
all games must have Pro mode that do not run in compatability mode, meaning different CPU speed, different GPU.

Switch devs DO have the opportunity to prevent their games running in high performance dock mode if they wish.
(and they can force higher memory bandwidth or something in portable mode, if I recall, although it hits battery life)
Switch handheld/console have exact same CPU speed unlike OG/Pro, and devs have option to forgo higher GPU clock if they wish.
The hardware performance differences are fewer than Pro, and devs have zero mandates to leverage power differences.



Goodnightmoon said:
I was talking about exactly this with Curl just 2 days ago, this should be possible, set one config for docked mode and another for handheld mode, many games are very scalable in PC, I don't see what they couldn't use that on Switch.

Of course that would require extra work, but I think is way less than what people believes.

Oh it's definitely possible.

My concern was more that devs would be too cheap/lazy to take full advantage of it, and simply boost resolution when docked while leaving other graphical settings the same.



Hmm, I just realized Switch is a whole lot more challenging than a pro patch. The hardware profile can change at any time. It's nothing like starting a separate executable on pro with different assets loaded in memory. It's even more of a challenge than on PC where the game has the option to reset after you change settings and sometimes asks you to restart the game depending on the settings.

Seems most likely that games will be coded for handheld mode with very modest changes to docked mode. A simple resolution boost might be it for most games. Or could it be that docking/undocking won't be as simple as shown. Perhaps some games will save and restart on a mode switch? Or at least it won't be as smooth as shown and the game might pause or drop speed for a while before recovering with simpler assets.



SvennoJ said:
Hmm, I just realized Switch is a whole lot more challenging than a pro patch. The hardware profile can change at any time. It's nothing like starting a separate executable on pro with different assets loaded in memory. It's even more of a challenge than on PC where the game has the option to reset after you change settings and sometimes asks you to restart the game depending on the settings.

Seems most likely that games will be coded for handheld mode with very modest changes to docked mode. A simple resolution boost might be it for most games. Or could it be that docking/undocking won't be as simple as shown. Perhaps some games will save and restart on a mode switch? Or at least it won't be as smooth as shown and the game might pause or drop speed for a while before recovering with simpler assets.

It better pause.



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spemanig said:
SvennoJ said:
Hmm, I just realized Switch is a whole lot more challenging than a pro patch. The hardware profile can change at any time. It's nothing like starting a separate executable on pro with different assets loaded in memory. It's even more of a challenge than on PC where the game has the option to reset after you change settings and sometimes asks you to restart the game depending on the settings.

Seems most likely that games will be coded for handheld mode with very modest changes to docked mode. A simple resolution boost might be it for most games. Or could it be that docking/undocking won't be as simple as shown. Perhaps some games will save and restart on a mode switch? Or at least it won't be as smooth as shown and the game might pause or drop speed for a while before recovering with simpler assets.

It better pause.

It seems logical you pause it yourself before docking/undocking, you still need to put the controllers on or take them off. Although some games don't allow you to pause like Dark souls and online games in general. Dunno how realistic that concept video is in practice. It seems a lot of hassle to program for seamless transitions while most people won't change operating modes in the middle of a game. Big promise from NIntendo.



Wyrdness said:
potato_hamster said:

I never once assumed there are only 7 bits of code concerning the platform. I just don't pretend to make assumptions on what could exist elsewhere in the engine the same as you do, and extrapolate from there that this indicates that UE4.14 is going to support Switch operating modes and the scaling between all on its own.

If you are right, and that is something the folks at unreal do intend on putting in there engine, then this is undoubtedly nothing more than a placeholder of a feature that is likely going to be released in the future that might actually be able to do some of the scaling you're assuming this engine can do right now, because as it stands now it is entirely useless on it's own. Of course all of this could be serving a completely different purpose entirely, but hey, why don't we keep just taking your speculations as fact, shall we?

The problem is, going with my analogy, is that these profiles DO NOT represent a whole car as much as you like to pretend they do. This isn't a basic car that people can customize. It's not even an entire door. It could be a part of a door for a submarine or a helicopter for all we know at this point. So please stop telling people this means that UE 4.14 will take care of scaling for developers based on this information. It doesn't mean that at all based on what we know. If you actually know half of what you represent yourself as knowing, then you know that this doesn't mean what you're claiming it does. Not on it's own.

But that's what your argument is hinging on though that these 7 lines are all that concern the Switch, you're here raging on about assumption yet your stance in itself is also an assumption. Ofcourse the code is useless on it's own the developer has to tailor it to their project.

The problem with your analogy is that you're arguing only these two profiles a context that is exclusive to you and you alone, I'm talking about a whole scaling feature in the engine which is factoring in other possible profiles and codes that an engine will obviously have, this is why that analogy doesn't mean much to me because I'm talking about the whole car while you chose to only look at the door frame for you argument. I'll post what I want thank you even if you lose sleep over it because what I've said with this feature developed games can scale for both modes meaning that the possibilty of fully utilizing docked performance isn't as compromised by portable performance, you've decided to read it as games are compiled automatically for portable mode and have argued from that angle.

Yeah we all don't know all the details which is why it's just a basic summary of why the would be profiles of the performance modes.

I''m actually not assuming that at all. This is the only thing we have to go by. You're assuming there's more, a lot more, enough in fact for it to be a feature that will make development on the switch markedly easier. You're assuming these profiles indicate a feature that will make utilizing docked performance easier, and ensure it's easier to scale for both modes when in reality there's no reason to think that based on what we know. For all we know this profile is literally just to set basic screen resolution parameters as a basic function, isn't related to any grander feature, and exists only to allow UE4 to even run on the Switch.

You remind me a lot of the people who saw the fact that the Nintendo switch dock had a vent and automatically assumed it has additional processing power built inside it. Of course, we know now that that's complete nonsense, but there were many people that were absolutely positive they were right. Sure it could mean that but we're just seeing a glance. Go ahead and make all the grand, speculative assumptions you want, but in order to avoid embarassment, you may want to avoid presenting them as fact.



SvennoJ said:
Hmm, I just realized Switch is a whole lot more challenging than a pro patch. The hardware profile can change at any time. It's nothing like starting a separate executable on pro with different assets loaded in memory. It's even more of a challenge than on PC where the game has the option to reset after you change settings and sometimes asks you to restart the game depending on the settings.

Seems most likely that games will be coded for handheld mode with very modest changes to docked mode. A simple resolution boost might be it for most games. Or could it be that docking/undocking won't be as simple as shown. Perhaps some games will save and restart on a mode switch? Or at least it won't be as smooth as shown and the game might pause or drop speed for a while before recovering with simpler assets.

That's right. You actually have to make the engine so it constantly checks its running mode, and be able to accomodate whatever changes the system needs to make in terms of rendering, draw distance, animation, etc. on the fly. That could literally mean loading two versions of assets in memory when other console games or PC games would only ever have to load one. In order to accomodate that it could mean that there could be many seconds (possibly dozens, similar to a load screen) of pausing when going between docked and undocked modes while the consoles accomodates its new running mode, and the engine catches up. I wouldn't necessarily say it's more of a challenge than developing a PC game, but there definitely unqiue challenges to developing for this platform that aren't just arbitrarily solved by changing a slider or making a changes to a hardware profile like some here appear to believe.



SvennoJ said:
spemanig said:

It better pause.

It seems logical you pause it yourself before docking/undocking, you still need to put the controllers on or take them off. Although some games don't allow you to pause like Dark souls and online games in general. Dunno how realistic that concept video is in practice. It seems a lot of hassle to program for seamless transitions while most people won't change operating modes in the middle of a game. Big promise from NIntendo.

I honestly doubt it's really that complicated. It's just really poor OS design. When you undock the Switch, Nintendo OS should pop up a UI by default letting you know the Switch was disconnected and prompting you to resume. Nothing else makes sense. There's literally no practical reason anyone would want the game to continue running when you won't be playing the game while you're undocking.



spemanig said:
SvennoJ said:

It seems logical you pause it yourself before docking/undocking, you still need to put the controllers on or take them off. Although some games don't allow you to pause like Dark souls and online games in general. Dunno how realistic that concept video is in practice. It seems a lot of hassle to program for seamless transitions while most people won't change operating modes in the middle of a game. Big promise from NIntendo.

I honestly doubt it's really that complicated. It's just really poor OS design. When you undock the Switch, Nintendo OS should pop up a UI by default letting you know the Switch was disconnected and prompting you to resume. Nothing else makes sense. There's literally no practical reason anyone would want the game to continue running when you won't be playing the game while you're undocking.

In the concept video the player is standing in the middle of a field in Zelda, grass keeps waving while he takes the switch out of the dock, seamless. But perhaps that was just for dramatic effect... It seems best to pause it, yet that leads to easy abuse in online games. Those might not have different assets anyway, equal playing field between docked and undocked. I guess we'll see a whole range of different takes on the actual switch behaviour.