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Forums - Politics Discussion - Trump: 'Nobody Really Knows' If Climate Change Is Real

Slarvax on 15 December 2016
Peh said:
Slarvax said:

Temperatures have risen since industralization, must be nature!

Whatever is causing climate change, we can do something about it. I'm sure companies will be fine in taking $60 million of profit instead of $80 million of profit (those are unrealistic numbers. Companies that do affect climate make much, much more).

I'm on the fence.

I agree that humans did their part of increasing the amount of co2 in our atmosphere. But we won't be able to fight against it, because naturally the co2 amount also raises until a certain degree and decreases with an ice age. We can postpone that circle a bit, but we can not stop it. The next ice age will come and it will be bad... like the movie.

I can agree with that point of view. Maybe our mission should preparing for the ice age. How will companies make profit when money is made of ice?



Bet with bluedawgs: I say Switch will outsell PS4 in 2018, he says PS4 will outsell Switch. He's now permabanned, but the bet will remain in my sig.

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fatslob-:O on 15 December 2016
Teeqoz said:

There are so many unscientific claims that it's painful to watch that. As he says in the video "you're a physicist for heaven's sake".  He says "how can you measure global average temperature for a whole year accurately down to a fraction of a degree?" Well the answer is pretty fucking obvious. We have thermometers that are extremely accurate, we have thermometers that can measure with a precision down to a less than a billionth of a Kelvin. That's way higher accuracy than we need. A hundreth of a Kelvin is already  enough. You then proceed to take continuous measurements on every measuring station, and average them out. Since at least the 1950's, our temperature measurements have been more than accurate enough. I could proceed to tear the rest of his arguments to pieces, but I'm sure it won't convince you either way. He is correct on some parts though, some personalities and media have used just as unscientific arguments as he himself uses in this video to try and convince others of global warming, and such inaccuracies should be pointed out. The problem is he is hypocritical because he's contributing to the problem by spreading false information himself, which is a shame.

I find it questionable that you even can measure the global average temperature ... 

A temperature is only a point in a 3D scalar field so how do you imagine that we can even take an average in space ?



aikohualda on 15 December 2016
GProgrammer said:
shikamaru317 said:

He has a point. Scientists always think they know something, once upon a time the scientific community thought the Earth was flat

Incorrect, People have known the world is a sphere from the greek times

people known the world is a sphere from the greek times... scientists from the greek times... still scientists

 

so how can he be incorrect? 



 

Teeqoz on 15 December 2016
fatslob-:O said:
Teeqoz said:

There are so many unscientific claims that it's painful to watch that. As he says in the video "you're a physicist for heaven's sake".  He says "how can you measure global average temperature for a whole year accurately down to a fraction of a degree?" Well the answer is pretty fucking obvious. We have thermometers that are extremely accurate, we have thermometers that can measure with a precision down to a less than a billionth of a Kelvin. That's way higher accuracy than we need. A hundreth of a Kelvin is already  enough. You then proceed to take continuous measurements on every measuring station, and average them out. Since at least the 1950's, our temperature measurements have been more than accurate enough. I could proceed to tear the rest of his arguments to pieces, but I'm sure it won't convince you either way. He is correct on some parts though, some personalities and media have used just as unscientific arguments as he himself uses in this video to try and convince others of global warming, and such inaccuracies should be pointed out. The problem is he is hypocritical because he's contributing to the problem by spreading false information himself, which is a shame.

I find it questionable that you even can measure the global average temperature ... 

A temperature is only a point in a 3D scalar field so how do you imagine that we can even take an average in space ?

But you don't measure the global average temperature. That makes no sense. You can't measure an average. Averages are calculated from many averages. We take measurements from both stations around the world, and satelites that continuously scan a small chaning part of earth's surface, and calculate the average. The measurements will be a finite number of measurements from a finite number of places. You then take the average for each individual place (to make sure places that have more measurements don't count more than places with fewer measurements), and then again take the average of those values to find the global average temperature. You can extrapolate the calculations to get an average for time periods as well. Honestly, the calculation is the simple part. Getting a huge dataset is the difficult part, but thanks to our advanced infrastructure and years of hard work and scientific progress, we have equipment many places in the globa that can measure temperature very accurately, giving us such a good dataset.



GProgrammer on 15 December 2016
aikohualda said:
GProgrammer said:

Incorrect, People have known the world is a sphere from the greek times

people known the world is a sphere from the greek times... scientists from the greek times... still scientists

 

so how can he be incorrect? 

He's saying scientists used to think the world was flat, I'm saying scientists have known the world is a sphere since at least 2500 years.

The guy was repeating an often stated myth that scientists once thought the world was flat, read this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_flat_Earth



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numberwang on 15 December 2016

Is there more reliable (sourced) info on x-treme weather?

 

Global Tropical Storm and Hurricane frequency

http://models.weatherbell.com/tropical.php


http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/pastdec.shtml



naruball on 15 December 2016
Ljink96 said:
naruball said:
How people keep defending him is beyond me.

Trump breeds hatred, those with hatred in their hearts love trump. Well, that's my experience with most Trump supporters. 

See, I get that. The problem is, how can you argue that your (as in anyone's) and Trump's limited understanding of climate change is more reliable than the scientists'?



AsGryffynn on 15 December 2016
LurkerJ said:

 

 

“I’m still open-minded. Nobody really knows,” Trump said. “Look, I’m somebody that gets it, and nobody really knows. It’s not something that’s so hard and fast. I do know this: Other countries are eating our lunch.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-climate-change-scepticism-may-withdraw-paris-agreement-a7469221.html

 

It's one thing to not to want to participate in renewable energy agreements, but "nobody really knows"? 

The phenomenon exists... Whether we are the cause, it's a natural cycle or otherwise does remain in the air... 



Locknuts on 15 December 2016

This statement actually rings pretty true. The feedbacks in the climate are not properly understood. This is why the climate sensitivity estimates for a doubling of Co2 haven't really changed from 3C + or - 1.5C since I think 1992.

Also, this is just one factor. The Earth's climate is incredibly complex. We know that Co2 causes warming but the rest is really up in the air (pardon the pun).

They are slowly narrowing things down the more we learn and the more research is done, but overall Trump is right: nobody really knows to a point where we should be legislating on this stuff.



Soundwave on 15 December 2016
Locknuts said:
This statement actually rings pretty true. The feedbacks in the climate are not properly understood. This is why the climate sensitivity estimates for a doubling of Co2 haven't really changed from 3C + or - 1.5C since I think 1992.

Also, this is just one factor. The Earth's climate is incredibly complex. We know that Co2 causes warming but the rest is really up in the air (pardon the pun).

They are slowly narrowing things down the more we learn and the more research is done, but overall Trump is right: nobody really knows to a point where we should be legislating on this stuff.

Wouldn't it make sense to err on the side of caution though? 

If you only had one car for the rest of your life and I said the radiator might be overheating and if it overheats it might destroy the entire car if you don't get it fixed ... what would you do? 

Common sense says get the radiator swapped out or at least looked at and not just keep driving around assuming nothing is probably going to happen. 

Not knowing for certain isn't an excuse for complete inaction given what's at stake.