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Forums - Sales Discussion - Uncharted 4 surpasses Halo 5 in global total sales

aLkaLiNE on 30 October 2016
Miyamotoo said:
Swordmasterman said:

That isn't how it works, we aren't talking about oil sales or any other thing. The consumer has hundreds/thousands of games to chose from and Installbase's influence has a limit in those sales. But, for you, it has unlimited and exactly proportional influence.

Mario Kart sold nearly the same on GmaeCube than it did on the Wii U, won't take that into account ?

Metal Gear Solid's franchise has almost the same number of sales between plataforms with 100-155-80 millions of installbase.

 

Call of Duty is selling more on the PS4 because   it is a worldwide success while the Xbox is just a USA and UK's success. Playstation is very popular in  Europe, as always, where Uncharted has the majority of sales. The Xbox is more popular now on the USA than it was when Halo 3 launched, 75-80% of Halo sales are on the USA. But, even so, it underperformed and sold less than 1/3 of what Halo 3 did on launch with some millions more  people to purchase in the market where it sells the most.

 

You missing point, how much MK GC would sell if instal base of GC is higher, or how much MK8 would sell if Wii U instal base is twice of actual instal base. Thats my point when people comparing sales of U4 on instal base of 45m and Halo 5 on instal base of 23m.

Call Of Duty selling exactly twice more on PS4 than XB1 because there are twice more people having PS4 instead of XB1, attach rate for that game is identical on PS4 and XB1.

The point you're making isn't a hard one to grasp, I don't think anyone here is misunderstanding you. I think that they're saying that sales don't scale linearly with install base, which they don't, and the black ops 3 example you posted is an anomaly in that black ops 3 was A) marketed for and by Sony but more importantly, B) black ops 3 was bundled with ps4 which tends to skew things, with the real kicker here being that like 90% of Ps4 sales through the first quarter after Bo3 came out were from the bundle alone. This implies that You would have more trouble finding a ps4 without Bo3 bundled than you would with it. If you want to prove or disprove your hypothesis, then the most obvious way would be to compare sales for any AAA Multiplat that was never bundled with either console. According to your logic, and what makes this comparison so easy, is that sales for ps4 to xb1 is very close to 2:1, so by your logic, all Multiplat AAA games should sell at that exact ratio between the HD twins.

 

FYi VgChartz tracking is horribly off for many games. This is the same site that says that Overwatch sold a cumulative 3.x million copies across PC ps4 and xb1 which we know from statements by blizzard that the game is well north of 12 million. In any case, if a game does sell 2 times that of xb than PlayStation, it's the exception, not the norm.



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DonFerrari on 31 October 2016
Miyamotoo said:
Swordmasterman said:

That isn't how it works, we aren't talking about oil sales or any other thing. The consumer has hundreds/thousands of games to chose from and Installbase's influence has a limit in those sales. But, for you, it has unlimited and exactly proportional influence.

Mario Kart sold nearly the same on GmaeCube than it did on the Wii U, won't take that into account ?

Metal Gear Solid's franchise has almost the same number of sales between plataforms with 100-155-80 millions of installbase.

 

Call of Duty is selling more on the PS4 because   it is a worldwide success while the Xbox is just a USA and UK's success. Playstation is very popular in  Europe, as always, where Uncharted has the majority of sales. The Xbox is more popular now on the USA than it was when Halo 3 launched, 75-80% of Halo sales are on the USA. But, even so, it underperformed and sold less than 1/3 of what Halo 3 did on launch with some millions more  people to purchase in the market where it sells the most.

 

You missing point, how much MK GC would sell if instal base of GC is higher, or how much MK8 would sell if Wii U instal base is twice of actual instal base. Thats my point when people comparing sales of U4 on instal base of 45m and Halo 5 on instal base of 23m.

Call Of Duty selling exactly twice more on PS4 than XB1 because there are twice more people having PS4 instead of XB1, attach rate for that game is identical on PS4 and XB1.

So let me understand... MK solding about flat between GC and WiiU (50% userbase difference) isn't an evidence that userbase and attach ratio aren't constants, but one case of CoD being 2:1 and matching userbase is? So for you the odd man out is the evidence to prove your point while the norm that almost all games don't behave like that must be ignored?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Miyamotoo on 31 October 2016
DonFerrari said:
Miyamotoo said:

You missing point, how much MK GC would sell if instal base of GC is higher, or how much MK8 would sell if Wii U instal base is twice of actual instal base. Thats my point when people comparing sales of U4 on instal base of 45m and Halo 5 on instal base of 23m.

Call Of Duty selling exactly twice more on PS4 than XB1 because there are twice more people having PS4 instead of XB1, attach rate for that game is identical on PS4 and XB1.

So let me understand... MK solding about flat between GC and WiiU (50% userbase difference) isn't an evidence that userbase and attach ratio aren't constants, but one case of CoD being 2:1 and matching userbase is? So for you the odd man out is the evidence to prove your point while the norm that almost all games don't behave like that must be ignored?

No, because you comparing platforms from different generations and difrent games, its easier to compare sales of some same multiplatform game on consoles of same generation, than sales of some exlusive games in difrent generation. Also if you need more evidence, look at sales of multi platform games on PS4 and XB1 and you will see that on PS4 sales of those same games are around double than they are on XB1, because of bigger twice instal base.

In this case I talking about attach rate only for U4 on PS4 and only about Halo 5 on XB1, look at current attach rate of those games, and you will see that in year-two attach rate will similar to current.



Swordmasterman on 31 October 2016
Miyamotoo said:
DonFerrari said:

So let me understand... MK solding about flat between GC and WiiU (50% userbase difference) isn't an evidence that userbase and attach ratio aren't constants, but one case of CoD being 2:1 and matching userbase is? So for you the odd man out is the evidence to prove your point while the norm that almost all games don't behave like that must be ignored?

No, because you comparing platforms from different generations and difrent games, its easier to compare sales of some same multiplatform game on consoles of same generation, than sales of some exlusive games in difrent generation. Also if you need more evidence, look at sales of multi platform games on PS4 and XB1 and you will see that on PS4 sales of those same games are around double than they are on XB1, because of bigger twice instal base.

In this case I talking about attach rate only for U4 on PS4 and only about Halo 5 on XB1, look at current attach rate of those games, and you will see that in year-two attach rate will similar to current.

That isn't the case, we have different consoles with different interests.  According to VG Chartz, the PS4 version of The Witcher 3, Dark Souls, Metal Gear Solid, Fifa, outsold the Xbox One's version 3-4.5. Even with Fifa it has a 2.5-3x advantage.

Some shooters have a 2 to 1  difference because it is Xbox's biggest genre of games.  Last gen some games and genres sold better on Sony's console on the USA than Microsoft, even when the PS3 was 20 millions behind the Xbox 360 in the USA. But, today, Microsoft is unable to do the same thing in any region of the world. Every game that sells on Xbox will sell more on the PS4 because of the taste of Xbox Gamers.

Sony was able to catch the shooter ground when they already had all the other genres.  That makes it difficult for Microsoft to make deals and increase Xbox's  relevance for people who like other genres, but don't affect Halo's sales  like you think.



DonFerrari on 31 October 2016
Miyamotoo said:
DonFerrari said:

So let me understand... MK solding about flat between GC and WiiU (50% userbase difference) isn't an evidence that userbase and attach ratio aren't constants, but one case of CoD being 2:1 and matching userbase is? So for you the odd man out is the evidence to prove your point while the norm that almost all games don't behave like that must be ignored?

No, because you comparing platforms from different generations and difrent games, its easier to compare sales of some same multiplatform game on consoles of same generation, than sales of some exlusive games in difrent generation. Also if you need more evidence, look at sales of multi platform games on PS4 and XB1 and you will see that on PS4 sales of those same games are around double than they are on XB1, because of bigger twice instal base.

In this case I talking about attach rate only for U4 on PS4 and only about Halo 5 on XB1, look at current attach rate of those games, and you will see that in year-two attach rate will similar to current.

Ok, I see... so you will only consider the data that confirm your bias. No problem, your perception of reality won't change reality itself.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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Miyamotoo on 31 October 2016
Swordmasterman said:
Miyamotoo said:

No, because you comparing platforms from different generations and difrent games, its easier to compare sales of some same multiplatform game on consoles of same generation, than sales of some exlusive games in difrent generation. Also if you need more evidence, look at sales of multi platform games on PS4 and XB1 and you will see that on PS4 sales of those same games are around double than they are on XB1, because of bigger twice instal base.

In this case I talking about attach rate only for U4 on PS4 and only about Halo 5 on XB1, look at current attach rate of those games, and you will see that in year-two attach rate will similar to current.

That isn't the case, we have different consoles with different interests.  According to VG Chartz, the PS4 version of The Witcher 3, Dark Souls, Metal Gear Solid, Fifa, outsold the Xbox One's version 3-4.5. Even with Fifa it has a 2.5-3x advantage.

Some shooters have a 2 to 1  difference because it is Xbox's biggest genre of games.  Last gen some games and genres sold better on Sony's console on the USA than Microsoft, even when the PS3 was 20 millions behind the Xbox 360 in the USA. But, today, Microsoft is unable to do the same thing in any region of the world. Every game that sells on Xbox will sell more on the PS4 because of the taste of Xbox Gamers.

Sony was able to catch the shooter ground when they already had all the other genres.  That makes it difficult for Microsoft to make deals and increase Xbox's  relevance for people who like other genres, but don't affect Halo's sales  like you think.

Of Course that you want have exactly double sales for each game because some games are more popular in Europe and some in US, but in majority cases difference is around double sales for PS4. Just look sales numbers here on VGC of best selling PS4 and XB1 games, CoD 3, GTA5, StarWars Battlefront are all around double on PS4 compared to XB1.

Whole my point is that XB1 has instal base like PS4 has, sales of Halo 5 would be much higher, and because of that I dont see point of comparing sales of two difrent games on two platforms where one has twice bigger instal base.



Miyamotoo on 31 October 2016
DonFerrari said:
Miyamotoo said:

No, because you comparing platforms from different generations and difrent games, its easier to compare sales of some same multiplatform game on consoles of same generation, than sales of some exlusive games in difrent generation. Also if you need more evidence, look at sales of multi platform games on PS4 and XB1 and you will see that on PS4 sales of those same games are around double than they are on XB1, because of bigger twice instal base.

In this case I talking about attach rate only for U4 on PS4 and only about Halo 5 on XB1, look at current attach rate of those games, and you will see that in year-two attach rate will similar to current.

Ok, I see... so you will only consider the data that confirm your bias. No problem, your perception of reality won't change reality itself.

Of Course I consider only data of PS4 and XB1 because I talk about them and sales of Halo5 and U4, in this matter of course I will not compare sales of Mario Kart from 2003. and Mario Kart from 2014, lol.



DonFerrari on 31 October 2016
Miyamotoo said:
DonFerrari said:

Ok, I see... so you will only consider the data that confirm your bias. No problem, your perception of reality won't change reality itself.

Of Course I consider only data of PS4 and XB1 because I talk about them and sales of Halo5 and U4, in this matter of course I will not compare sales of Mario Kart from 2003. and Mario Kart from 2014, lol.

Halo 3 to 4 is on the same system and you see a lot less sales from a lot more hw userbase, but you want to only focus on what you have no data to really prove but can only speculate



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Miyamotoo on 31 October 2016
DonFerrari said:
Miyamotoo said:

Of Course I consider only data of PS4 and XB1 because I talk about them and sales of Halo5 and U4, in this matter of course I will not compare sales of Mario Kart from 2003. and Mario Kart from 2014, lol.

Halo 3 to 4 is on the same system and you see a lot less sales from a lot more hw userbase, but you want to only focus on what you have no data to really prove but can only speculate

You again missing point. Ok Halo 3 and 4 are on same system, how much Halo 3 and Halo 4 would sell if instal base of Xbox 360 is 40m instead of 80m!? Definatly they would sell much less on 40m than they sold on 80m instal base, thats exatly my point when you comparing sales of Halo 5 on 23m instal base and sales of U4 on 45m instal base.



DonFerrari on 31 October 2016
Miyamotoo said:
DonFerrari said:

Halo 3 to 4 is on the same system and you see a lot less sales from a lot more hw userbase, but you want to only focus on what you have no data to really prove but can only speculate

You again missing point. Ok Halo 3 and 4 are on same system, how much Halo 3 and Halo 4 would sell if instal base of Xbox 360 is 40m instead of 80m!? Definatly they would sell much less on 40m than they sold on 80m instal base, thats exatly my point when you comparing sales of Halo 5 on 23m instal base and sales of U4 on 45m instal base.

Halo 3 sold 12M on a likely 20M userbase, while Halo 4 got on 10M on likely 60M+ userbase, that is the point. They wouldn't have changed much more than perhaps 10-20% if the userbase was 40M



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."