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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo Switch probably more powerful than the Xbox One S, gets PS4 ports

se7en7thre3 said:

iAs you may know, the X2 pascal chip is touted at 1.5 tf, fp16 (half precision) so 750 gf ,fp32 (single prec.) is the max.  Considering Nvidia >>>>> AMD flops, performance wise brings it closer to XB1.

nVidia's flops aren't any better than AMD's, I assume you think that because AMD has more flops and nVidia's GPU's outperform them still? Well here is the kicker. There is more to a GPU's capabilities than flops.

se7en7thre3 said:

  This lines up exactly with what  Emily declared the entire time , about NX performing similar to XB1 but power comparison being a stretch, etc.

The Switch/NX falls far short of the Xbox One's capabilities, there is more to performance than flops and Tegra is a chip based on compromises to meet certain power targets.

se7en7thre3 said:

But I think the worst case scenario, regarding 3rd parties, NS will be a 540port system, displacing Vita.

 

It will likely be a 720P and under device, it's likely to be ROP/Texturing starved, it will also likely have less geometry throughput than the Xbox One, certainly less bandwidth and texture/pixel fillrate... It doesn't matter what clocks you run on it, it's not likely to have the edge.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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WagnerPaiva said:
One thing is clear: there will be extra juice when you dock the thing. It just looks super cool.

Absolutely nothing Nintnedo has stated indicates that there is extra power when docked. Nothing. In fact they've indicated this is not the case, and it takes creative, optimisitc interpretation of what has been said to think that this is still a possibility.  Why assume this is true?



If it is, I'll be waiting for my Fallout 4 port.



se7en7thre3 said:

With an exhaust vent being on top side of the unit, doesn't it lend credence to a fan blowing air through the bottom when docked? I think there's a legit shot NS could have the full X2 capabilities in home console mode.

 


That looks awful to have such an exposed vent on a portable. Surely Nintendo should have had a heatsink panel directly over the cpu/gpu soc that is exposed on the outside case and when you slide it into the base it makes contact with another metal surface that is fan cooled. That vent doesn't look child friendly at all.

Also looking at the development kit spec which has a maximum of 2ghz for cpu and I think 1ghz for gpu (can't remember gpu figure) what do we think is the realistic throttling for portability. I'm thinking 1.2ghz cpu, 600mhz gpu max with reduced speed when possible to extend battery life.

I wonder though if Nintendo seeing the reaction to 3hrs battery life will actually throttle back more in portable mode for the final version.  Personally I'd want 5hrs minimum for games. Lets say they took it to 900mhz cpu, 450mhz gpu you'd be right back into last gen 360/ps3 performance but then for a portable that is still hugely impressive? Then when docked  you'd have a 2.2x performance boost enough to take the game from 720p to 1080p with some anti-aliasing thrown in.

People maybe need to focus on the cpu performance more I think. Running a sophisticated game engine while not exclusively a cpu task is pretty much down to the cpu performance. How pretty the game is running that game engine is more about the gpu.

So the Switch can do fantastic cartoon graphics for Nintendo's own games and it can run xb1/ps4 games with much reduced graphic fidelity. 

If there were also to make a VR visor available as an optional accessory I must admit  I'd be drawn in to purchase a lot more.

I just don't use a portable much. I have a vita and 3DS and they don't get much use nowadays. I tend to game on my phone if stuck waiting somewhere or travelling on a train etc which doesn't happen that often.

I totally understand though that what this does is have Nintendo developing games for one format which is both portable and home so more games so many more games will be available but I think they need to release a home based box as well fairly shortly for those who don't need a portable. They need to exploit both types of user and maximise the number of homes who have hardware that will run their games. Switch is for people who want both but there needs to be an option for the exclusively home gamer too and maybe even exclusively portable who want a pocket size Non-switch mini or something.



Game_God said:
Soundwave said:

I think the developer compared the systems (XBox One and NS) directly though and he was pretty clear ... NS is not close to XBOne in real world performance.

1/3 of XBox One maybe with a lot less memory bandwidth (this is just as important as gigaflops guys). 

If Nintendo is willing to offer a supplemental dock with actual hardware in it, that could change the story, but then developers would likely have to make two versions/settings for each game. Mind you, this is now becoming the case for Sony/MS developers too, but I can see Nintendo as always being stubborn about that. 

Tegra X1/X2 are very good *mobile* chips, but mobile is worlds different from desktop/home console cards, the electrical envelopes are miles apart, NS probably at maximum can only run at 9-12 watts, and not all that can be for the GPU either, the LCD/memory/WiFi/CPU will also chew up some of that electrical budget too. An XBox One S even with a large die shrink (16nm) and more efficient design still consumes 50+ watts (it's a monster reduction from the OG XBox One that consumes 110 watts). 

 

se7en7thre3 said:

Can you link if possible? 

But yeah, its hard to expect miracles from mobile tech, esp. when you factor in battery life, cooling & Nintendo lol.

 

DonFerrari said:
Yes.... Nvidia just made it possible to make the same power on 1/3 the volume of PS4 and all that at a cheaper price point, can you imagine how powerfull their Titan X will be when they apply this to it?

 

Arkaign said:

I'm a big hardware guy who lives in Texas, and have friends that worked in semiconductor since the 1980s (AMD and TI). What you're saying is 200% correct.

Even with 14nm and the MOST optimistic side of the potential reality in performance ceiling, with Nintendo going on the side of a hot/loud tablet at 20W (LOL), this would still fall far under OG Xbox 1, and memory would massively limit things to boot.

Take Frostbite Games for example, if Scorpio does turn out to have 6TF and much faster memory, then a hypothetical Battlefront 2017 would probably line up like this : 

Scorpio : 4K Native

PS4 Pro : 4K Checkerboard

PS4 OG : 900P

X1 OG : 720P

NS : 480P and much lower textures/draw distance

People need to go back and look at the Mario game in the trailer. We know it's a new game, and well, it looks like great fun, but it looks like WiiU level at best. The Skyrim footage looks like it's just playing a generic placeholder video, but there's a funny history with handheld Elder Scrolls : 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrWtz7M_OHc

At the end of the day if the NS can't play third party AAA tentpole titles because they either aren't ported, or run like crap, this is simply going to be another niche system. And if it's expensive, it will outright fail. It really needs $199 or less to be a potential hit. $249 will be maybe GC numbers lifetime. $299 will be courting disaster, and anything north of that and it's getting close to virtual boy levels.

 

Pemalite said:

You still need to power gate all that though, which costs transisters and die space and thus costs if you do it at a hardware level.

Sony doesn't need to worry about power consumption to the same degree as a mobile device, so they might have limited it at the Software/OS/Firmware/BIOS/Cats level.

It will be a 720P and under device. Tegra doesn't have the capability to drive high resolutions whilst pushing high levels of fidelity.

I was thinking the same thing but then I watched this video with Nico Wav who is a french gamemaker/insider, close to Ubisoft & Nintendo was invited by The Share Players to share his views on the Switch reveal & he says some very interesting stuff starting around the 38.00min.
He has time with the Switch devkit & to sum-up if you don't understand french, he says that the Switch is on par & even slightly more powerfull than the regular PS4, apparently Nvidia worked very well & did some black magic with the insides of the Switch, because they seem to port PS4 games with no trouble at all & even have some margin left to exploit. Take that as you wish, I myself am quite intrigued by this, as I assumed that with the Handheld layout, the Switch would be half the power of X1 in the best case, but from what he is saying it's quite superior to X1 & a bit superior to PS4...
Color me shocked, I don't know if I believe that 100%, but Nico Wav is well trusted & a real insider. He seems very confident about the Switch & about the power inside it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=salk2e0BCHY

Personnaly, if the Switch was on X1 level in such a form factor, that would just awsome crazy & would be enough to grant 3rd party ports since X1 is getting them, now to be on par with PS4 would require the involvement of serious black magic with the making of the chips by Nvidia!!! Wait & see I guess...

 

OK... After losing more than 1 hours of my life listening to this (french speaker here), I can say that it just sounds like any Youtube Nintendo Fanboy Podcast, not a professional or insider podcast at all. Mostly rumors, "I've read on internet that", "I hope that it can"... Quick recap:

- About the power of the Switch, the host says: "If the rumors of a console equal to the PS4 are true, then it could...." (same rumours we've read here on VGchartz). The "supposed insider" says that it will be powerful enough to run "games equivalent to the PS4/Xbox One games", saying that the PS4 is just 1.4 tflops so it's not that much (but the PS4 is 1.8 tflops, not 1.4...).

- They dream about a Pokemon Go or other games like that asking gamers to go outside and they say that it would be really successful and awesome (5 minutes after saying that there won't be any SIM slot).

- The console is not made for Japan, it even "turns its back to Japan", it's really made for US and EU (lol).

- It's possible to make an equivalent of Gear VR for the NS.

- The Nintendo shares losing 6% is in fact a strategy from Nintendo, who wants to decrease the price in order to buy their own shares again. It's a great move against the mean investors who know nothing about video games.

- We don't know which Skyrim will be on NS, not yet sure about the HD one. But Read Dead 2 on NS is not impossible. Games like FF15, Watch Dogs 2, Ghost Recon are sure to be on NS (from rumors).

- Ubisoft, Platinum and Capcom will have exclusive games on the NS, but Nintendo doesn't secure other "normal deals" (either full exclusive or no deal).

- We don't care about third party games, Nintendo gamers want Nintendo games.

- It's a great idea to communicate in early 2017 only, because there are no games in early 2017 (January to March) to disturb them.

- 3DS games could be compatible with the NS slot (yeah, the podcast was recorded before Nintendo said it won't be).

- Nintendo esports, yeah !!

- 2017 will be awesome, "I hope developers are ready for what's coming".

- The Switch is the savior of our "morose" industry, even Yves Guillemot from Ubisoft and Phil Spencer from MS said great things about it.

 

Honestly, it just looks like any thread made on VGChartz by a Nintendo fan dreaming about the console. They even say things like "Everyone is overhyped by this console, look at Gameblog, they don't stop talking about it" (Gameblog is the worst french video gaming site, the masters of clickbait and irrealistic rumors presented as absolute truth). Any discussion here gives us more information and more rational thoughts than this video ^^.

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Faelco said:
Game_God said:

 

 

 

 

I was thinking the same thing but then I watched this video with Nico Wav who is a french gamemaker/insider, close to Ubisoft & Nintendo was invited by The Share Players to share his views on the Switch reveal & he says some very interesting stuff starting around the 38.00min.
He has time with the Switch devkit & to sum-up if you don't understand french, he says that the Switch is on par & even slightly more powerfull than the regular PS4, apparently Nvidia worked very well & did some black magic with the insides of the Switch, because they seem to port PS4 games with no trouble at all & even have some margin left to exploit. Take that as you wish, I myself am quite intrigued by this, as I assumed that with the Handheld layout, the Switch would be half the power of X1 in the best case, but from what he is saying it's quite superior to X1 & a bit superior to PS4...
Color me shocked, I don't know if I believe that 100%, but Nico Wav is well trusted & a real insider. He seems very confident about the Switch & about the power inside it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=salk2e0BCHY

Personnaly, if the Switch was on X1 level in such a form factor, that would just awsome crazy & would be enough to grant 3rd party ports since X1 is getting them, now to be on par with PS4 would require the involvement of serious black magic with the making of the chips by Nvidia!!! Wait & see I guess...

 

OK... After losing more than 1 hours of my life listening to this (french speaker here), I can say that it just sounds like any Youtube Nintendo Fanboy Podcast, not a professional or insider podcast at all. Mostly rumors, "I've read on internet that", "I hope that it can"... Quick recap:

- About the power of the Switch, the host says: "If the rumors of a console equal to the PS4 are true, then it could...." (same rumours we've read here on VGchartz). The "supposed insider" says that it will be powerful enough to run "games equivalent to the PS4/Xbox One games", saying that the PS4 is just 1.4 tflops so it's not that much (but the PS4 is 1.8 tflops, not 1.4...).

- They dream about a Pokemon Go or other games like that asking gamers to go outside and they say that it would be really successful and awesome (5 minutes after saying that there won't be any SIM slot).

- The console is not made for Japan, it even "turns its back to Japan", it's really made for US and EU (lol).

- It's possible to make an equivalent of Gear VR for the NS.

- The Nintendo shares losing 6% is in fact a strategy from Nintendo, who wants to decrease the price in order to buy their own shares again. It's a great move against the mean investors who know nothing about video games.

- We don't know which Skyrim will be on NS, not yet sure about the HD one. But Read Dead 2 on NS is not impossible. Games like FF15, Watch Dogs 2, Ghost Recon are sure to be on NS (from rumors).

- Ubisoft, Platinum and Capcom will have exclusive games on the NS, but Nintendo doesn't secure other "normal deals" (either full exclusive or no deal).

- We don't care about third party games, Nintendo gamers want Nintendo games.

- It's a great idea to communicate in early 2017 only, because there are no games in early 2017 (January to March) to disturb them.

- 3DS games could be compatible with the NS slot (yeah, the podcast was recorded before Nintendo said it won't be).

- Nintendo esports, yeah !!

- 2017 will be awesome, "I hope developers are ready for what's coming".

- The Switch is the savior of our "morose" industry, even Yves Guillemot from Ubisoft and Phil Spencer from MS said great things about it.

 

Honestly, it just looks like any thread made on VGChartz by a Nintendo fan dreaming about the console. They even say things like "Everyone is overhyped by this console, look at Gameblog, they don't stop talking about it" (Gameblog is the worst french video gaming site, the masters of clickbait and irrealistic rumors presented as absolute truth). Any discussion here gives us more information and more rational thoughts than this video ^^.

Except this is Nico Wav who is being interviewed, not some random "analyst", he is a very respected insider, having worked with Ubisoft & Nintendo, so when he says something you pay attention, I'm not saying that you should take his word as gospel, I certainly don't, but I think it's enough to assume that there is more than meets the eye. I certainly give him (someone who has spent actual time with a Switch devkit) more credit than random kid posters in here who want the Switch to be a weak console & wetdream everynight about the failure of Nintendo & hopes Nintendo goes 3rd party (& don't take take this the wrong way, I'm not talking about you, I'm just generalizing)!!!

Again, I'm not saying that's the case, X1 performance level in a handheld form factor would be sick IMO!!!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n29CicBxZuw

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Game_God said:

Except this is Nico Wav who is being interviewed, not some random "analyst", he is a very respected insider, having worked with Ubisoft & Nintendo, so when he says something you pay attention, I'm not saying that you should take his word as gospel, I certainly don't, but I think it's enough to assume that there is more than meets the eye. I certainly give him (someone who has spent actual time with a Switch devkit) more credit than random kid posters in here who want the Switch to be a weak console & wetdream everynight about the failure of Nintendo & hopes Nintendo goes 3rd party (& don't take take this the wrong way, I'm not talking about you, I'm just generalizing)!!!

I understand, but when he's talking about possible 3DS games support, the console being for the West and not for Japan, the Nintendo shares losing value being a strategy from Nintendo, and the Switch being the savior of the morose industry because Yves Guillemot said so, he sounds more like an internet fanboy than a professional. He does give a few information (Ubisoft, Platinum and Capcom having Switch exlusive games), but a lot of the discussion is just Nintendo fans talking about their dreams and wishes for the console. So I would take the whole video with a lot of caution. I'm not saying that he can't have insider information, just that it's not the subject or mood of this video.

 

He gives one more interesting information, he thinks that the Wii U will be connected to the Switch in order to use its DVD reader (and run the Wii U games). 



getting PS4 ports = proably more powerful than xbox one s
nice logic, man

 

 

Edit: nvm it's a ruler topic. so expected to be just clickbait and bs



Faelco said:
Game_God said:

Except this is Nico Wav who is being interviewed, not some random "analyst", he is a very respected insider, having worked with Ubisoft & Nintendo, so when he says something you pay attention, I'm not saying that you should take his word as gospel, I certainly don't, but I think it's enough to assume that there is more than meets the eye. I certainly give him (someone who has spent actual time with a Switch devkit) more credit than random kid posters in here who want the Switch to be a weak console & wetdream everynight about the failure of Nintendo & hopes Nintendo goes 3rd party (& don't take take this the wrong way, I'm not talking about you, I'm just generalizing)!!!

I understand, but when he's talking about possible 3DS games support, the console being for the West and not for Japan, the Nintendo shares losing value being a strategy from Nintendo, and the Switch being the savior of the morose industry because Yves Guillemot said so, he sounds more like an internet fanboy than a professional. He does give a few information (Ubisoft, Platinum and Capcom having Switch exlusive games), but a lot of the discussion is just Nintendo fans talking about their dreams and wishes for the console. So I would take the whole video with a lot of caution. I'm not saying that he can't have insider information, just that it's not the subject or mood of this video.

 

He gives one more interesting information, he thinks that the Wii U will be connected to the Switch in order to use its DVD reader (and run the Wii U games). 

I don't care much about his hopes, he is a Nintendo fan & shows it, what I care is what he says about the console tech performance... Not in this video but an older one from september on this channel he says, that porting games from PS4 is happening & said games work at 1st try & need almost no optimization, he said that the console even has some "muscle left" that allow optimizations over the PS4 version of the game... It's hard to believe, even for me a Nintendo fan, due principaly to the size & handheld factor of the Switch, but you can't deny that there is a lot of 3rd parties supporting it (even if we don't know how many & what games will en up on it), some of them who haven't released games on a nintendo console like in forever & they wouldn't be there if the console was weak & hard to port to.

Again, give me near X1 level of performance @ 300$ with 3rd party support & Nintendo could have a winner!!! I was very skeptic after the reveal (to say the least), but since some interesting info has appeared painting a rosier picture!!!

I guess we'll know soon enough, I won't lose sleep over this anymore, I'll judge the info when it's coming & see if the Switch is worth my money!!!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n29CicBxZuw

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Captain_Yuri said:

Highly doubt it will be as powerful as the PS4 or even x1s... Saying it will get ps4 ports means nothing cause ps4 does have some games that don't even use its power... I shall remain skeptical

It makes perfect sense when you consider that this is a 9th generation machine and Nintendo likes to use prior generation specs when launching a new console. Think about it... the Wii could play PS2 games... Wii-U could play Xbox 360 games... this is perfectly in line with what they've been doing since 2006.