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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Uncharted director criticizes triple-a development, says it can 'destroy people'

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SvennoJ on 08 October 2016
potato_hamster said:

Yes they do. The do do concept work called a "vertical slice". But that reallt depends on the game. Some games require months, if not years of work to get a point before you'll truly know whether a concept will work or not, or whether or not a gameplay feature is actually fun. Sometimes the best ideas on paper simply aren't fun to play. You can't really plan for "having to completely redesign a critical gameplay feature because it isn't any fun".

True, but does that happen so often that crunch time is a given nowadays?

That time off structure for overtime is pretty cynical. I guess it's better than being let go when production ramps down at the beginning of a new project. The average employment rate where I worked wasn't very different. A lot of young people came to work there for a year or so to learn some stuff and add it to their resume. Hiring more people to increase production doesn't work when they leave again just after you train them. Software development is a very transient work environment, disposable employees and disposable jobs.



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potato_hamster on 09 October 2016
SvennoJ said:
potato_hamster said:

Yes they do. The do do concept work called a "vertical slice". But that reallt depends on the game. Some games require months, if not years of work to get a point before you'll truly know whether a concept will work or not, or whether or not a gameplay feature is actually fun. Sometimes the best ideas on paper simply aren't fun to play. You can't really plan for "having to completely redesign a critical gameplay feature because it isn't any fun".

True, but does that happen so often that crunch time is a given nowadays?

That time off structure for overtime is pretty cynical. I guess it's better than being let go when production ramps down at the beginning of a new project. The average employment rate where I worked wasn't very different. A lot of young people came to work there for a year or so to learn some stuff and add it to their resume. Hiring more people to increase production doesn't work when they leave again just after you train them. Software development is a very transient work environment, disposable employees and disposable jobs.

Every single serious project I've worked on has had a crunch period. Most times this happens after Alpha is declared, but it can start even easier if the project's schedule starts going long early, especially on annual release games or games with short development times.



DonFerrari on 10 October 2016
Cerebralbore101 said:
There have been tons of studies over the years showing that productivity is higher at 40 hours a week, than it is at 60. Why? Because people get burned out. Of course, suits don't understand this, and they fail to realize that someone working 60 hours a week only gets as much work done as someone working 50 hours a week. Once you factor in overtime, and loss in productivity you realize that these companies are throwing money out the window. Then, let's not even get into what a high turnover rate does to a company.

Sure, suits are all a bunch of idiots. They haven't done dozen of courses, years of experience, etc... Have you started your company yet using all the knowledge you have?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

The Fury on 10 October 2016
Guitarguy said:
Wyrdness said:

It's different for each person and company.

I see. If it was a fixed salary and less than MEGA DOLLARS and around 70+ hours a week I'd be like CYA FUCKEN LATER!!!

A lot of companies have bonus structure as well, so a set salary with bonus (because if the game sells bucket loads, you get a nice payoff). This keeps people there.

 

On the article, it's well know ho hard developers work, yet sometimes I wonder if (hopefully) with increasing technology and development programmes, that'll it'll be easier to develop games in the future. Sure, main basic gameplay will still require work but with procedural generated content making some parts easier (level design), it might help in development overall. 



Hmm, pie.

0D0 on 10 October 2016

I reckon it's the same for any sort of software business that delivers huge software solutions. The expectation for software is nuts. You can make a lot of money in IT, but it's still a very demanding area.



God bless You.

My Total Sales prediction for PS4 by the end of 2021: 110m+

When PS4 will hit 100m consoles sold: Before Christmas 2019

There were three ravens sat on a tree / They were as blacke as they might be / The one of them said to his mate, Where shall we our breakfast take?


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Cerebralbore101 on 10 October 2016
DonFerrari said:
Cerebralbore101 said:
There have been tons of studies over the years showing that productivity is higher at 40 hours a week, than it is at 60. Why? Because people get burned out. Of course, suits don't understand this, and they fail to realize that someone working 60 hours a week only gets as much work done as someone working 50 hours a week. Once you factor in overtime, and loss in productivity you realize that these companies are throwing money out the window. Then, let's not even get into what a high turnover rate does to a company.

Sure, suits are all a bunch of idiots. They haven't done dozen of courses, years of experience, etc... Have you started your company yet using all the knowledge you have?

Bussinessmen are not psychologists, or social scientists. CEOs are nothing more than laymen when it comes to this topic. You might as well try appealing to the years of experience of a crab fisherman on the topic of global warming.  



DonFerrari on 10 October 2016
Cerebralbore101 said:
DonFerrari said:

Sure, suits are all a bunch of idiots. They haven't done dozen of courses, years of experience, etc... Have you started your company yet using all the knowledge you have?

Bussinessmen are not psychologists, or social scientists. CEOs are nothing more than laymen when it comes to this topic. You might as well try appealing to the years of experience of a crab fisherman on the topic of global warming.  

Yes, sure CEO are dumb people that doesn't have departments to look at all that is needed. And I'm certain that psychologists and social scientists are the ones that have the best studies about productivity and thus are the most sought after professionals for companies.

CEOs are on their position to bring the best profit they can (and that pretty much involves improving efficiency). But since you know so much more than them, where is your company for you to apply all the knowledge you have.

And just to make it easier for you, you don't have to be PhD in a subject to understand or use the discoveries of it.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Cerebralbore101 on 10 October 2016
DonFerrari said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Bussinessmen are not psychologists, or social scientists. CEOs are nothing more than laymen when it comes to this topic. You might as well try appealing to the years of experience of a crab fisherman on the topic of global warming.  

Yes, sure CEO are dumb people that doesn't have departments to look at all that is needed. And I'm certain that psychologists and social scientists are the ones that have the best studies about productivity and thus are the most sought after professionals for companies.

CEOs are on their position to bring the best profit they can (and that pretty much involves improving efficiency). But since you know so much more than them, where is your company for you to apply all the knowledge you have.

And just to make it easier for you, you don't have to be PhD in a subject to understand or use the discoveries of it.

So if all the companies go asking the advice of a Voodoo magician, then that somehow makes him an expert? Sorry, but being right is not a popularity contest. 

CEO's are in their posistion to being the best profit that they can. That means doing everything they can to screw over their employees and customers. You need more than knowlege to have a company. You need money. Sorry, if I don't have a million dollars laying around to start up my own company. 

No, you don't need a PHD to understand a subject. But ignoring the input of a PHD in favor of some layman, is an idiotic thing to do. 



DonFerrari on 10 October 2016
Cerebralbore101 said:
DonFerrari said:

Yes, sure CEO are dumb people that doesn't have departments to look at all that is needed. And I'm certain that psychologists and social scientists are the ones that have the best studies about productivity and thus are the most sought after professionals for companies.

CEOs are on their position to bring the best profit they can (and that pretty much involves improving efficiency). But since you know so much more than them, where is your company for you to apply all the knowledge you have.

And just to make it easier for you, you don't have to be PhD in a subject to understand or use the discoveries of it.

So if all the companies go asking the advice of a Voodoo magician, then that somehow makes him an expert? Sorry, but being right is not a popularity contest. 

CEO's are in their posistion to being the best profit that they can. That means doing everything they can to screw over their employees and customers. You need more than knowlege to have a company. You need money. Sorry, if I don't have a million dollars laying around to start up my own company. 

No, you don't need a PHD to understand a subject. But ignoring the input of a PHD in favor of some layman, is an idiotic thing to do. 

I fail to see where did you got that asking advice makes someone an expert.

If you truly believe that making profit is about screwing employees and customers I have nothing else to discuss with you, and trust me even if you had 100M in the bank you wouldn't be able to start a company. But if you really knew what you pretend to know you wouldn't need more than 1k USD or even less to start your company.

And who is ignoring the input of PhD? But again I fail to see where do social scientists perform experiments on productivity and performance gains on production or abstract work. But again, you are the bright one and I'm the idiot and stupidy so you probably know better.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Cerebralbore101 on 11 October 2016
DonFerrari said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

So if all the companies go asking the advice of a Voodoo magician, then that somehow makes him an expert? Sorry, but being right is not a popularity contest. 

CEO's are in their posistion to being the best profit that they can. That means doing everything they can to screw over their employees and customers. You need more than knowlege to have a company. You need money. Sorry, if I don't have a million dollars laying around to start up my own company. 

No, you don't need a PHD to understand a subject. But ignoring the input of a PHD in favor of some layman, is an idiotic thing to do. 

I fail to see where did you got that asking advice makes someone an expert.

If you truly believe that making profit is about screwing employees and customers I have nothing else to discuss with you, and trust me even if you had 100M in the bank you wouldn't be able to start a company. But if you really knew what you pretend to know you wouldn't need more than 1k USD or even less to start your company.

And who is ignoring the input of PhD? But again I fail to see where do social scientists perform experiments on productivity and performance gains on production or abstract work. But again, you are the bright one and I'm the idiot and stupidy so you probably know better.

I'm done with you. You've done nothing but attack me personally. You don't even understand proper grammar. Only a fool argues with a fool. 

 

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