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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Uncharted director criticizes triple-a development, says it can 'destroy people'

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pray4mojo said:
Brii said:

Not to be rude, but that's a rather naive and shortsighted mindset. In fact, a major mistake developers or anyone working on group-based projects often face is when they're coming down to a deadline and things are looking dire so their superior just hires more people. That'll make things go faster, right? Well, besides the fact that these new employees must be trained and caught up to speed, are less proficient and knowledgable about what they're making and more inclined towards mistakes, or don't have a personality or views that jive well with the rest of the development team. This actually makes things worse and puts an even bigger strain on the previous developers because now they have to serve as trainers and glorified babysitters.

It's a mistake to believe that because developer(X) can do 40 hours of work in a week, that if X= 40, then X*2 = 80. Humans are not a stagnant X value, and their productivity flucuates depending on various circumstances.

I don't work in the video game industry, but I do work as a developer in a different field with projects of a much smaller scale. Generally it's one developer per project. But putting two on a project does not cut down timelines in half. It perhaps creates 20% more efficiency if nothing goes wrong, because it's not as simple as splitting the code in half and one person doing one part and the other doing another. We still need to discuss and coordinate at all times.

That's also not counting the fact that you're doubling the BUDGET as well by hiring so many people on, even if it's all at the start. You may be fine with a 50% paycut, but this is a lot of people's livelihoods and they don't have the luxury of picking a paycut over long work hours when supporting a family.

I understand all that but you also can't expect people to work 7 days a week, 12 hours a day either. If having larger teams isn't the solution, there should be another one. People shouldn't have to work themselves into the hospital in the western world like they're in sweat shops.

Of course there are solutions, but sometimes no one wants to take them because it would end up being worse for them.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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I wouldn't want to be in their shoes.

Whats shocking is if you look at their wage slips.

I've done accounts for some guys who used to work over at Square Enix in Wimbledon. Not glamorus at all. A lot of them work for peanuts.



Former Uncharted director. As for her opinion she is partially correct. Unless games focuses in visuals and unnecessary investment (full body mo cap to other investment); AAA games can still be properly managed.



pray4mojo said:
Brii said:

Not to be rude, but that's a rather naive and shortsighted mindset. In fact, a major mistake developers or anyone working on group-based projects often face is when they're coming down to a deadline and things are looking dire so their superior just hires more people. That'll make things go faster, right? Well, besides the fact that these new employees must be trained and caught up to speed, are less proficient and knowledgable about what they're making and more inclined towards mistakes, or don't have a personality or views that jive well with the rest of the development team. This actually makes things worse and puts an even bigger strain on the previous developers because now they have to serve as trainers and glorified babysitters.

It's a mistake to believe that because developer(X) can do 40 hours of work in a week, that if X= 40, then X*2 = 80. Humans are not a stagnant X value, and their productivity flucuates depending on various circumstances.

I don't work in the video game industry, but I do work as a developer in a different field with projects of a much smaller scale. Generally it's one developer per project. But putting two on a project does not cut down timelines in half. It perhaps creates 20% more efficiency if nothing goes wrong, because it's not as simple as splitting the code in half and one person doing one part and the other doing another. We still need to discuss and coordinate at all times.

That's also not counting the fact that you're doubling the BUDGET as well by hiring so many people on, even if it's all at the start. You may be fine with a 50% paycut, but this is a lot of people's livelihoods and they don't have the luxury of picking a paycut over long work hours when supporting a family.

I understand all that but you also can't expect people to work 7 days a week, 12 hours a day either. If having larger teams isn't the solution, there should be another one. People shouldn't have to work themselves into the hospital in the western world like they're in sweat shops.

The thing is, the people that have the opporunity to create those solutions often don't want to, because it's not as beneficial for them. The developers have little say in the matter when their superior is cracking the whip on them. It's a direct conflict of interest. Again, referring back to my own job, what is best for our project managers (low immediate costs, short timelines, keeping clients happy by giving into to their every whim) is directly at odds with what is best for me (better but more immediately expensive tools and processes, adequate timlines, and sometimes telling the client that they have no idea what they want and they should just listen to my expertise on the matter goshdangit). That's just the unfortunate nature of the job. We're the grunt workers and the code monkeys at the end of the day.

It doesn't help when gamers put pressure on these companies to make bigger, better games with better graphics and no delays or far off release dates. 



Brii said:
pray4mojo said:

I understand all that but you also can't expect people to work 7 days a week, 12 hours a day either. If having larger teams isn't the solution, there should be another one. People shouldn't have to work themselves into the hospital in the western world like they're in sweat shops.

The thing is, the people that have the opporunity to create those solutions often don't want to, because it's not as beneficial for them. The developers have little say in the matter when their superior is cracking the whip on them. It's a direct conflict of interest. Again, referring back to my own job, what is best for our project managers (low immediate costs, short timelines, keeping clients happy by giving into to their every whim) is directly at odds with what is best for me (better but more immediately expensive tools and processes, adequate timlines, and sometimes telling the client that they have no idea what they want and they should just listen to my expertise on the matter goshdangit). That's just the unfortunate nature of the job. We're the grunt workers and the code monkeys at the end of the day.

It doesn't help when gamers put pressure on these companies to make bigger, better games with better graphics and no delays or far off release dates. 

Well, just from reading the OP and talking to you, I have a whole new perspective on the subject and an appreciation for huge games in general. It's not right what these guys have to go through and it's a shame our society is so hell bent on profits. 

It seems only something like federal oversight and regulations will solve it.



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Pretty sure this is no hidden secret, Ken Levine upped and left because of similar problems in AAA development, he recently said it hit him particularly hard because he's never really been the upbeat type. The AAA approach as a whole looks to be more self destructive for the industry when that's all everyone is going for.

The industry really needs to return to the once in a while AAA project supported by projects that even though are less in scope are polished and quality instead of the constant AAA attempts like today as it's becoming more miss than hits tbh.



Wyrdness said:

Pretty sure this is no hidden secret, Ken Levine upped and left because of similar problems in AAA development, he recently said it hit him particularly hard because he's never really been the upbeat type. The AAA approach as a whole looks to be more self destructive for the industry when that's all everyone is going for.

The industry really needs to return to the once in a while AAA project supported by projects that even though are less in scope are polished and quality instead of the constant AAA attempts like today as it's becoming more miss than hits tbh.

Are you saying that other companies should become more like Nintendo?



GoOnKid said:

Are you saying that other companies should become more like Nintendo?

And where did you get that conclusion from?



Wyrdness said:
GoOnKid said:

Are you saying that other companies should become more like Nintendo?

And where did you get that conclusion from?

"The industry really needs to return to the once in a while AAA project supported by projects that even though are less in scope are polished and quality."

This describes Nintendo's philosophy quite well, I think.



GoOnKid said:
Wyrdness said:

And where did you get that conclusion from?

"The industry really needs to return to the once in a while AAA project supported by projects that even though are less in scope are polished and quality."

This describes Nintendo's philosophy quite well, I think.

Their philosophy is more gameplay first everything else later tbh, what i described is more how most companies operated before the latter half of the 7th gen, Nintendo sure enough still operate this way but I wouldn't say it's their philosophy per say they just stuck with the approach despite the industry going AAA mad while building on their gameplay first philosophy.