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Forums - Sports Discussion - The Pro Wrasslin' Thread (WWE, WWF, WCW, TNA, ROH, NWA, NJPW, etc)

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What match are you excited for at WWE Payback 2017?

Neville vs. Austin Aries ... 1 6.67%
 
Randy Orton vs. Bray Wyat... 3 20.00%
 
The Hardy Boyz vs. Cesaro... 2 13.33%
 
Kevin Owens vs. Chris Jer... 3 20.00%
 
Bayley vs. Alexa Bliss (Raw Women's Title) 3 20.00%
 
Seth Rollins vs. Samoa Joe 1 6.67%
 
Roman Reigns vs. Braun Strowman 2 13.33%
 
Total:15
BasilZero said:

Acknowledge the bloodline you noobs.

Done! :D



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

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Jumpin said:

I’ve been thinking about how pro-wrestling rewrites history and legacies. But much of the time these legacies and moments not only don’t match up with our memories, but looking back at the old VHS tapes, the history is more like we remember it rather than how it’s it’s later presented (or ignored in many cases).

1. Myth: The Curtain Call as some major turning point of pro-wrestling.

Reality: The curtain call was barely noticed by anyone at the time, and those who did, didn’t really care. Reason: this one’s obvious, it helps build Triple H’s legacy into something bigger than it was, make him seem like a guy who was held back when the reality was he wasn’t ready at that point in time. Triple H was a great tag team character, a good IC level guy, but a poor world champion (below mediocre) when he first landed the belt off Mankind in 1999–arguably one of the worst title reigns of the 1990s. It wasn’t until the end of 1999 that, IMO, he really became the top tier singles guy and THE major heel in the company most people know him as. His match at the 2000 Royal Rumble was his first great match, and is probably both his and Foley’s best match of all time. The reality is that Triple H’s story is impressive without trying to pass up his legacy into something bigger than it was prior to the 1999.

2. Myth: Ric Flair was one of the greatest wrestlers of all time, on the level of Hogan. That he was a highly skilled wrestler.

Reality: (and I know people hate to hear this considering how heavily he’s been respected for the last 20 years, BUT) He wasn’t that big before the 2000s—his real story is a guy who stuck in there and really made it big late in his career, but Triple H and others have re-arranged it so his earlier legacy is a lot bigger earlier on than the reality. He held world titles, but he was the least popular guy to have done so. The thing most people could pick Flair out for was as a Buddy Rogers tribute: the big feathery robe he wore and the figure four leg lock. He was mediocre in the ring, being slower than most, and having a lower arsenal of moves (mostly chops, the woo, and falling strangely). During promos, WWE makes fun of Ultimate Warrior (another guy bigger than Flair), but Flair did the exact same stuff, acting weird, yelling, and mostly incoherent. Apart from being at the bottom of the world title tier (because, let’s be real, his biggest moment prior to 2000 was as one of the transitional champions between the Hogan and Hart eras) he was viewed as one of the dinosaurs at the height of WCW, and kind of a freak show given he looked so old (he was old, but looked even older than his age) and has known mainly for that (and the loose skin). There were even world title tier guys who were more popular than Flair in the 1980s and early 90s like Jerry the King Lawler, Supafly, Razor Ramon (in the 90s at least), Roddy Piper, Jake the Snake, and Dusty Rhodes. Reason: I don’t know, I think the story of a guy who held in there at a relatively high level and reached his pinnacle long after most would have retired is a better story than the history re-write.

3. Myth: Either an insignificant Bret Hart era.

Reality: this one is one of the harder ones to hide because too many people remember Hart being the top guy for years through the 1990s and one of the most deserving guys during the 1980s. And one of the things that the Bret Hart era had on top of the popularity was that he had this level of authenticity that Hogan and Ultimate Warrior lacked. Bret was cut from the same cloth as the Steamboats, the Dynamite Kids, and the Davey Boy Smiths. The Montreal Screwjob is to this day the most infamous moment that occurred in a pro-wrestling ring aside from his brother’s death. Even when Austin and Rock were huge and Bret was languishing/injured in WCW, if he popped up in WWE, it would have been one of the biggest moments in the industry. Reason: I think this one is obvious, there was a massive break between Bret and WWE.

4. Stone Cold Steve Austin’s rise occurred at King of the Ring 1996.

Reality: it began about a half a year later at Survivor series. While in context the moment looks huge, the reality is not many people thought much about King if the Ring at the time, and Austin wasn’t really in the top tier until his feud with Bret Hart. The match that really made him was Hart vs. Austin in 1997 where he bled all over his face. Reason: just easier to communicate, I think most wrestling fans are aware of this, and WWE doesn’t try to hide it, it’s just one of those things that many casual fans remember differently because of how WWE began to package Austin’s career legacy starting as early as the Austin VHS tapes released in 1998.

I think this is really underselling Flair and ignoring a lot of what he did outside WWE, and especially stuff before the 90s. His biggest moment definitely wasn't as a transitional champion. His stuff with the Horseman was bigger, his feuds with Steamboat and Dusty, and so on. How much you like his matches is subjective (and I'm not actually a huge fan of his in ring work), but it's hard to argue that he wasn't the biggest start that was created outside WWE (at least as far as American audiences go). Only real competition would be Sting and Goldberg. The fact that he had a pretty good run towards the end of his career (or at least what should have been the end) is really just gravy. 



WWE apparently fired Mandy Rose due to her onlyfans or whatever service account. I'm fine with WWE having standards for how they expect Superstars to act, being that they are a family company and people are pretty prudish, but this seems kind of hypocritical. WWE has heavily emphasized Rose's sex appeal for years now. It's especially a bummer because Rose has really put in work to become a lot better in the ring, when she really could have coasted on her looks, especially under the last regime.

The bright side for Mandy is that her page is gonna get a lot more attention. AEW should be all over that, and this could be a good selling point for female stars in general. Women can make a lot of money doing the only fans stuff (which seems kind of silly to me, but hey, if I was in that kind of demand, I'd sure be doing it), and even just stuff like Twitch which I believe they're still down on. For certain people, particularly ones who have already had national exposure, that could make AEW a better deal even if they don't offer as much money.

And this probably won't apply, especially since nobody posts here anymore, but anyone who wants to slutshame Mandy or anyone else, should go fuck themselves. If that's what she wants to do with her body, it's nobody's business, unless they want to pay 30 dollars a month.



Mandy Rose huh?



The road to WrestleMania is almost here, boys and girls.

Woohoo!



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gooch_destroyer said:

The road to WrestleMania is almost here, boys and girls.

Woohoo!

Yup. Product's the best its been in a while. The stories are weaving together nicely, and a lot of guys are being allowed to showcase more of their skills. That being said, there are some downsides. It's getting really crowded with all of the returns, and a lot of them aren't doing super well. Pretty much everyone is at least getting some screen time, but people like Emma or Legando Phantasma (or whoever they are), show up and stop feeling like a big deal pretty quick.

Really hoping that the Rock vs Roman isn't the main event of mania. As awesome as the Bloodline is it's time for Roman to drop the belt, and the Rock isn't the guy to drop it to. Cody is probably the best choice if he is healthy. Zayn would be great, but his storyline more appropriately ends with him and Owens facing the Usos for the tag belts. KO would work, but they're doing that at Royal Rumble.

One thing they could do if they REALLY want to have Roman Reigns vs The Rock is do something similar to what they did at Wrestlemania 10. Cody wins the rumble, but puts his title shot on the line against Solo Sikoa on night one, with the condition that if Cody wins, the Bloodline is banned from ringside on Night 2. Meanwhile on night 1 the Rock faces Reigns in a non-sanctioned match to prove who is the head of the table.



Cody should be back by Rumble time so here's hoping he gets to be part of the main event.

I dont think The Rock has any time to come back to do a mania match.

He'll likely announce that he will be a part of another movie in a few months.





BasilZero said:

Cody should be back by Rumble time so here's hoping he gets to be part of the main event.

I dont think The Rock has any time to come back to do a mania match.

He'll likely announce that he will be a part of another movie in a few months.

No idea what his schedule is like, but whether or not they could do that, they shouldn't. This is kind of the biggest test for the WWE. The biggest mistake they've made for the past 20 years is not putting over people when they should. It's particularly frustrating when they give moments that could be used for making stars to people who don't need it. I.e. the Rock ending the summer of Punk, Lesnar breaking the streak, Cena ending Miro's unbeaten streak, Lesnar winning the ruble, Goldberg beating Wyatt, etc etc. We'll see if HHH is going to fix that and use his first Mania to actually make new stars.

Rhea Riplay, Sami Zayn, and Cody Rhodes are definitely at the point where one big win can make them huge stars. Hopefully they all have a good showcase.



I think Cody should win the Men's Rumble.

Charlotte might win the Women's rumble.



gooch_destroyer said:

I think Cody should win the Men's Rumble.

Charlotte might win the Women's rumble.

Cody seems the obvious choice if he's healthy, which it seems he will be. And, a lot of times the obvious choice is the right one. If not Cody, Zayn winning could be interesting, especially if you have the Bloodline turn on him before then. That could be literally the biggest pop in Mania history if it's done right.

Charlotte winning is always a possibility... cause Charlotte wins a lot of stuff. To be fair, she's very talented, but she's another person where she keeps being given moments she doesn't need. She didn't need to end Asuka's streak or beat Rhea for the NXT title. Charlotte is about as over as she will be I think. I don't see her vs Bianca being a match people are dying to see, and I don't think anyone really needs to see Charlotte vs Rousey again. (Although, lets be honest and give Charlotte some huge props, cause she had some great matches with Rousey, and others haven't been able to do the same thing).

The women's rumble is a lot more interesting to me because they have two belts, so there's more directions they could go, especially because they have a really dominant face and heel holding either titles. Rhea Ripley I think is the best choice. Becky could also win to set up a match with Rousey, although you could just book that match without a Rumble win. If Banks came back I'd be down for Banks vs Belair II.