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Forums - Sports Discussion - The Pro Wrasslin' Thread (WWE, WWF, WCW, TNA, ROH, NWA, NJPW, etc)

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What match are you excited for at WWE Payback 2017?

Neville vs. Austin Aries ... 1 5.88%
 
Randy Orton vs. Bray Wyat... 3 17.65%
 
The Hardy Boyz vs. Cesaro... 3 17.65%
 
Kevin Owens vs. Chris Jer... 4 23.53%
 
Bayley vs. Alexa Bliss (Raw Women's Title) 3 17.65%
 
Seth Rollins vs. Samoa Joe 1 5.88%
 
Roman Reigns vs. Braun Strowman 2 11.76%
 
Total:17
No_Name_Needed said:
JWeinCom said:

 Being a hater is arbitrarily finding fault where there is none due to bias. Not pointing out legitimate flaws.

So, again, was my criticism invalid? If not, then what's wrong with pointing out actual flaws?

So why did you yourself bring up the hater thing? You know you look like a AEW hater at this point so you pointed out before anyone else could perhaps?

Like I said you find flaws in everything they do, you don't like them, and there are plenty of others just like you. It is what it is, I myself can find a litany of things wrong with the WWE today. Hell if I listed them all you would probably say I am WWE hater and defend them. If one has a preference (or bias) one way or the other, that is how things usually play out with pro wrestling.

I have not found flaws in everything they've done. I've found flaws in particular things that are genuinely flawed.

Now, it's possible that I'm finding flaws because I'm just biased. Or, it's possible that I'm finding flaws because there are legitimate flaws. Since you can't actually point out anything I've said that is wrong, I would have to say it's the latter, and this is legitimate criticism not caused by bias.

Which brings me to your question. I brought it up, because I know there are some people who will interpret any criticism as being a hater, even when it is warranted and legitimate. ^_^

Edit: At any rate, I'm done dragging things off topic with the discussion of my personal biases or lackthereof. If you can point out a flaw in something I said about wrestling, go for it. Otherwise, I'm not going to bother responding.

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 26 February 2022

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JWeinCom said:
No_Name_Needed said:

So why did you yourself bring up the hater thing? You know you look like a AEW hater at this point so you pointed out before anyone else could perhaps?

Like I said you find flaws in everything they do, you don't like them, and there are plenty of others just like you. It is what it is, I myself can find a litany of things wrong with the WWE today. Hell if I listed them all you would probably say I am WWE hater and defend them. If one has a preference (or bias) one way or the other, that is how things usually play out with pro wrestling.

I have not found flaws in everything they've done. I've found flaws in particular things that are genuinely flawed.

Now, it's possible that I'm finding flaws because I'm just biased. Or, it's possible that I'm finding flaws because there are legitimate flaws. Since you can't actually point out anything I've said that is wrong, I would have to say it's the latter, and this is legitimate criticism not caused by bias.

Which brings me to your question. I brought it up, because I know there are some people who will interpret any criticism as being a hater, even when it is warranted and legitimate. ^_^

What would be the point in me pointing out anything that you've said is wrong, you are just going to argue your not wrong. Having said that, I did give you my opinion on the women's division in an edit I made on page 148, and how I think you are wrong on that. But I think you preference for the WWE does play a part in how you see AEW, as I personally think WWE is far worse then anything on AEW and I don't think you've been nearly as critical of them here. But hey that's just my preference and bias coming into play isn't it.



No_Name_Needed said:
JWeinCom said:

I have not found flaws in everything they've done. I've found flaws in particular things that are genuinely flawed.

Now, it's possible that I'm finding flaws because I'm just biased. Or, it's possible that I'm finding flaws because there are legitimate flaws. Since you can't actually point out anything I've said that is wrong, I would have to say it's the latter, and this is legitimate criticism not caused by bias.

Which brings me to your question. I brought it up, because I know there are some people who will interpret any criticism as being a hater, even when it is warranted and legitimate. ^_^

What would be the point in me pointing out anything that you've said is wrong, you are just going to argue your not wrong. Having said that, I did give you my opinion on the women's division in an edit I made on page 148, and how I think you are wrong on that. But I think you preference for the WWE does play a part in how you see AEW, as I personally think WWE is far worse then anything on AEW and I don't think you've been nearly as critical of them here. But hey that's just my preference and bias coming into play isn't it.

So you're going to put words in my mouth..?

If you think I'm just completely unreasonable and won't acknowledge any legitimate argument, you're free to bugger off.

I haven't mentioned WWE because it's irrelevant. For the sake of argument, I'll just grant that WWE is terrible. That doesn't somehow make AEW's women's division not shit. 

As for you showing I was wrong...

"The women's division is still the smallest and greenest division in AEW, one match on both shows I think is OK for now. If a year or two from now it is still only one match on both Dynamite and Rampage, then it would be a valid complaint."

... yeah, saying you think it's ok for the women's division to suck isn't really an argument. 

You're also just factually wrong. Because, the division has plenty of talented and experienced women. Thunder Rosa, Serena Deeb, Ruby Soho, Leva Bates, Mercedes Martinez, Kris Statlander, Hikaru Shida, Britt Baker. These are not green wrestlers. Mercedes Martinez has 20 years or so of experience, Serena Deeb 10, Hikaru Shida 13 and is a former champion in AEW, Ruby Soho has over a decade of experience, Leva Bates 15. Do none of these women deserve some screen time in the on the company's main show? 

So, I still stand by my criticism. Can you actually explain why it's wrong? And, how about staying away from talking about whatever you're imagining is going on in my head, and stick to what I actually said?



JWeinCom said:

No_Name_Needed said:

What would be the point in me pointing out anything that you've said is wrong, you are just going to argue your not wrong. Having said that, I did give you my opinion on the women's division in an edit I made on page 148, and how I think you are wrong on that. But I think you preference for the WWE does play a part in how you see AEW, as I personally think WWE is far worse then anything on AEW and I don't think you've been nearly as critical of them here. But hey that's just my preference and bias coming into play isn't it.

So you're going to put words in my mouth..?

If you think I'm just completely unreasonable and won't acknowledge any legitimate argument, you're free to bugger off.

I haven't mentioned WWE because it's irrelevant. For the sake of argument, I'll just grant that WWE is terrible. That doesn't somehow make AEW's women's division not shit. 

As for you showing I was wrong...

"The women's division is still the smallest and greenest division in AEW, one match on both shows I think is OK for now. If a year or two from now it is still only one match on both Dynamite and Rampage, then it would be a valid complaint."

... yeah, saying you think it's ok for the women's division to suck isn't really an argument. 

You're also just factually wrong. Because, the division has plenty of talented and experienced women. Thunder Rosa, Serena Deeb, Ruby Soho, Leva Bates, Mercedes Martinez, Kris Statlander, Hikaru Shida, Britt Baker. These are not green wrestlers. Mercedes Martinez has 20 years or so of experience, Serena Deeb 10, Hikaru Shida 13 and is a former champion in AEW, Ruby Soho has over a decade of experience, Leva Bates 15. Do none of these women deserve some screen time in the on the company's main show? 

So, I still stand by my criticism. Can you actually explain why it's wrong? And, how about staying away from talking about whatever you're imagining is going on in my head, and stick to what I actually said?

First off, I did not put words in your mouth period, I have no idea what you are talking about. I simply said you would likely say you are not wrong, like most people tend to do. That is not not putting words in your mouth, especially not specific words. I was also never imagining what was going on in your head, that was also unnecessary. No need to get worked up or telling me to bugger off. You could have just ignored my last comment like you said you would.

At this point I'm moving on, I didn't intend to make this a big thing nor do I want it to continue. I typically just lurk on websites for this very reason, to avoid getting into a hostile back and forth with someone. We can both have our opinions and like and or hate whatever we want. Now we can both "bugger off."

Last edited by No_Name_Needed - on 26 February 2022

No_Name_Needed said:
JWeinCom said:

So you're going to put words in my mouth..?

If you think I'm just completely unreasonable and won't acknowledge any legitimate argument, you're free to bugger off.

I haven't mentioned WWE because it's irrelevant. For the sake of argument, I'll just grant that WWE is terrible. That doesn't somehow make AEW's women's division not shit. 

As for you showing I was wrong...

"The women's division is still the smallest and greenest division in AEW, one match on both shows I think is OK for now. If a year or two from now it is still only one match on both Dynamite and Rampage, then it would be a valid complaint."

... yeah, saying you think it's ok for the women's division to suck isn't really an argument. 

You're also just factually wrong. Because, the division has plenty of talented and experienced women. Thunder Rosa, Serena Deeb, Ruby Soho, Leva Bates, Mercedes Martinez, Kris Statlander, Hikaru Shida, Britt Baker. These are not green wrestlers. Mercedes Martinez has 20 years or so of experience, Serena Deeb 10, Hikaru Shida 13 and is a former champion in AEW, Ruby Soho has over a decade of experience, Leva Bates 15. Do none of these women deserve some screen time in the on the company's main show? 

So, I still stand by my criticism. Can you actually explain why it's wrong? And, how about staying away from talking about whatever you're imagining is going on in my head, and stick to what I actually said?

First off, I did not put words in your mouth period, I have no idea what you are talking about. I simply said you would likely say you are not wrong, like most people tend to do. That is not not putting words in your mouth, especially not specific words. No need to get worked up or telling me to bugger off. You could have just ignored my last comment like you said you would.

At this point I'm moving on, I didn't intend to make this a big thing nor do I want it to continue. I typically just lurk on websites for this very reason, to avoid getting into a hostile back and forth with someone. We can both have our opinions and like and or hate whatever we want. Now we can both "bugger off."

Saying what someone is going to say is in fact putting words in their mouth. If you took anything I said as hostile, then my bad, not my intention. I didn't ignore the comment, because you said you had shown that I was wrong, and since I was responding to that, may as well respond to the rest. But I'm fine with dropping it. 



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JWeinCom said:
No_Name_Needed said:

First off, I did not put words in your mouth period, I have no idea what you are talking about. I simply said you would likely say you are not wrong, like most people tend to do. That is not not putting words in your mouth, especially not specific words. No need to get worked up or telling me to bugger off. You could have just ignored my last comment like you said you would.

At this point I'm moving on, I didn't intend to make this a big thing nor do I want it to continue. I typically just lurk on websites for this very reason, to avoid getting into a hostile back and forth with someone. We can both have our opinions and like and or hate whatever we want. Now we can both "bugger off."

Saying what someone is going to say is in fact putting words in their mouth. If you took anything I said as hostile, then my bad, not my intention. I didn't ignore the comment, because you said you had shown that I was wrong, and since I was responding to that, may as well respond to the rest. But I'm fine with dropping it. 

Great we can both drop it, it is for the best. Just one last thing, I was not trying to put words in your mouth, just saying most people never back down on the their views regardless of if they are right, wrong, or somewhere in-between. Perhaps I should have worded that better, but I was not putting words in your mouth. I truly hate when others do that, and I would not do it myself, at least not intentionally. So being accused of that sucks.



No_Name_Needed said:
JWeinCom said:

Saying what someone is going to say is in fact putting words in their mouth. If you took anything I said as hostile, then my bad, not my intention. I didn't ignore the comment, because you said you had shown that I was wrong, and since I was responding to that, may as well respond to the rest. But I'm fine with dropping it. 

Great we can both drop it, it is for the best. Just one last thing, I was not trying to put words in your mouth, just saying most people never back down on the their views regardless of if they are right, wrong, or somewhere in-between. Perhaps I should have worded that better, but I was not putting words in your mouth. I truly hate when others do that, and I would not do it myself, at least not intentionally. So being accused of that sucks.

Alright, maybe I thought you were speaking specifically when you meant it generally. Either way, I'm over it.



Xia Li is either an amazing worker or dangerous as fuck. It looked like she just legitimately did a spinning heel kick to Natalya's head as hard as she could. If that was actually safe, then it was a great spot, but it actually made me crings and worry about Natalya.



BasilZero said:

Watched the promos between MJF and Punk - along with the Jericho and Eddie Kingston.

Great promo talkers.

Also the Daniel Bryan and Moxley feud is going good.

Three most favorite storylines going on AEW.


As for WWE - I know Lesnar/Reigns has been done so much but I'm loving the change of character for Lesnar and Reigns staying Heel is great. Was worried few weeks back when he feuded with Rollins, thought Reigns was gonna turn face.

Speaking of Rollins, looks like they are teasing tag team between Rollins and KO.


Also the rumor of Stone Cold fighting KO at WM....uhhh doesnt sound too good unless its a cinematic match.

I kind of want Stone Cold to fight at mania, but if he actually does happen, I'm sure it won't be what I imagine it would be. Stone Cold is 57 now which is 2 years younger than Flair and Michaels which was a classic, but that was mainly due to the booking. Also, Steve Austin wasn't as good as flair as a Wrestler, and KO is no Shawn Michaels. 

MJF's promo was interesting. Given his history it's probably a mind game, and his delivery made me think that too, but there's a little part of me that was wondering if he was being real. I'm not sure it made me want to see the match, but it made me interested to see where the program goes.

Jericho's promo was good. And, he's really gotten into better shape over the past 6 months or so, so good for him. I'm not sure they should have been making those comments about sports entertainment right after the Penta/Pac/Murphy/Black thing which was definitely very sports entertainment. I'm not sold on Kingston. So far his feuds seem to just be "I don't like the cut of that guy's jib". From what I've seen at least. Just seems like a grumpy dude. 



BasilZero said:
JWeinCom said:

I kind of want Stone Cold to fight at mania, but if he actually does happen, I'm sure it won't be what I imagine it would be. Stone Cold is 57 now which is 2 years younger than Flair and Michaels which was a classic, but that was mainly due to the booking. Also, Steve Austin wasn't as good as flair as a Wrestler, and KO is no Shawn Michaels. 

MJF's promo was interesting. Given his history it's probably a mind game, and his delivery made me think that too, but there's a little part of me that was wondering if he was being real. I'm not sure it made me want to see the match, but it made me interested to see where the program goes.

Jericho's promo was good. And, he's really gotten into better shape over the past 6 months or so, so good for him. I'm not sure they should have been making those comments about sports entertainment right after the Penta/Pac/Murphy/Black thing which was definitely very sports entertainment. I'm not sold on Kingston. So far his feuds seem to just be "I don't like the cut of that guy's jib". From what I've seen at least. Just seems like a grumpy dude. 

Kingston's like a souped up Brooklyn brawler lol

Speaking of Penta....I'm not familiar with the character as much but from the few clips I've seen....his new "persona" doesnt seem any different from what he was like before - I mean he's wearing a trenchcoat....


Really doesnt help the debut of his "Dark persona" he loses or gets beaten up on the first night lol.

Yeah, that's a good description of Kingston. Which maybe works for some people, but not me. Although he plays that character well, it's just not one that I would like. 

And yeah. I don't watch Dynamite regularly but I think that was the first time we saw this new persona. It was a cool entrance, but then, in the match he just did the same things as usual, except not the glove thing. And... won with a roll up? When you have characters like that (Undertaker, Wyatt, Mankind) you generally don't have them win with a roll up. And then he was nearly decapitated moments later. But Buddy Murphy showed up to prevent that... only to beat the shit out of Penta some more. @_@ it was just a bizarre mess.

And that's like, the third attempted murder in a couple of weeks. Drew is running around threatening people with a sword, and Big E threatened to run over one of Los Lotharios... and these are supposed to be the good guys. I could suspend a little disbelief, but someone should really be getting the police involved at this point. And unless they plan to behead Baron Corbin at Wrestlemania there isn't going to be any payoff anyway.