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Forums - Sports Discussion - The Pro Wrasslin' Thread (WWE, WWF, WCW, TNA, ROH, NWA, NJPW, etc)

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What match are you excited for at WWE Payback 2017?

Neville vs. Austin Aries ... 0 0%
 
Randy Orton vs. Bray Wyat... 3 23.08%
 
The Hardy Boyz vs. Cesaro... 2 15.38%
 
Kevin Owens vs. Chris Jer... 3 23.08%
 
Bayley vs. Alexa Bliss (Raw Women's Title) 2 15.38%
 
Seth Rollins vs. Samoa Joe 1 7.69%
 
Roman Reigns vs. Braun Strowman 2 15.38%
 
Total:13

Anyone watching the Royal Rumble?



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PAOerfulone said:

Anyone watching the Royal Rumble?

Yup! Shocked to see Bianca Belair winning from the #3 slot and Edge winning from the #1 slot! 



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Runa216 said:
PAOerfulone said:

Anyone watching the Royal Rumble?

Yup! Shocked to see Bianca Belair winning from the #3 slot and Edge winning from the #1 slot! 

The Rumble matches themselves were meh. They were alright, but nothing really that great. But the finishes and the outcomes were absolutely fantastic!

Bianca Belair is one of THE young names, along with Rhea Rhipley, who are going to carry that Women's Division when the Four Horsewomen decide to call it quits. Her and Sasha (Who I think is one of the top 10, maybe top 5, best workers in the industry, male or female) is the Big Money match at WrestleMania, and I am very much looking forward to it. 

And Edge... Man. I gotta say, at first, I wasn't sold on the idea of him winning the Rumble. My first pick was Daniel Bryan. But now, that it has happened and I think about the prospect of Edge vs. Roman Reigns (I assume he's going to pick Roman.) at WrestleMania, the more pumped I am!

And honestly, I think Edge should win. While Roman has been on fire since he came back, turned Heel, and aligned with Paul Heyman, and his run with the title has been fantastic, the story they're telling with Edge is just magical. It's the Shawn Michaels story all over again. 

2002 - Shawn came back after a career-ending back injury, overcame his former best friend, turned hated enemy - Triple H. Then went on to win the World Heavyweight Championship.

Now - Edge comes back from a career-ending neck injury, overcomes his former friend, turned enemy, Randy Orton. And now is going on to challenge for the Universal Championship at WrestleMania!

And Roman is the PERFECT foil! The Tribal Chief, the Head of the Table, the New Top Dog in the Company. He could look down on Edge and bury him into the ground the entire feud saying: "You’re washed up. You’re too old. You can’t do it anymore. You’re a broken shell of what you used to be with a bad neck. Just one more bad bump, and you’ll be a crippled old man who can't even hold his daughters anymore! You don’t belong in MY ring!"

The promo work with Roman, Edge, and Paul Heyman would be fucking AWESOME! Just have Roman crank the Heel heat up to Maximum and come down HARD on Edge - the underdog, resilient, miracle kid Babyface who starts to doubt himself here and there, but come Hell or high water he's going to go to WrestleMania, and he's going to finish what he started. 

And at WrestleMania, Edge gets his ass KICKED. He is getting beaten down, battered, bloodied, and demolished like we have never seen him get his ass kicked before and Roman is just tearing him apart. But no matter how much Roman kicks the living shit out of him, Edge just simply refuses to quit. No matter how badly Roman beats him down, Edge just keeps getting back up and coming back for more and more. Eventually, Edge starts fighting back, gets the upper hand, starts wearing Roman down, and no matter what Roman tries to do, he's throwing everything at him INCLUDING the kitchen sink, he just simply cannot beat this motherfucker! He starts getting desperate, angry, and starts to make mental mistakes, to where Edge, the Ultimate Opportunist and Master Manipulator that he is, starts to pick him apart. And finally, after a long, hard-fought, grueling WAR, with both men being absolutely spent, and it's simply a battle of wills - Who wants it more. Finally, it's Edge who comes out on top. 

It's the Tried and True, Cinderella story with the fairy-tale, happy ending at WrestleMania. A WrestleMania Moment for the ages, the kind that WrestleMania was made for! 

I'm aware that it's probably an unpopular opinion and that taking the title of Roman when he's on the tear that he has been is crazy-talk. But it's not like the loss is going to hurt him. Edge can always drop the belt right back to him at the next PPV. But for WrestleMania... I don't know, man. I think this is a story and a moment that is just too good to pass up. 



That sounds pretty believable.

Was a decent show actually... Better than I expected. Been watching aew most weeks of late but will always tune in to wwe for the road to maina.

I really like Roman as a heel. The way he speaks and carries himself, it just makes sense. Glad they pulled the trigger early on and didn't wait until they were past the point of no return like Cena.

Was kinda expecting Rollins to win but I can see how messy a quick turn wouldn't work out all that well for him.

Hoping for Daniel Bryan even though I'm a pretty firm believer in using the royal rumble as a device to build talent up rather than keep established talent at the top. Like McIntyre last year, Bianca this year.

I can't wait to see the most IMPORTANT WWE PPV of the year soon... Fast lane.

Will maybe watch a smackdown or raw here and there between now and Mania but will likely just keep tuning into aew tbh.



Found this gem the other day.

Normally, I'd be upset about a top guy like Stone Cold brutally burying an undercard guy like Lance Storm like this.

But goddamn, this was fucking hilarious!



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ironmanDX said:

That sounds pretty believable.

Was a decent show actually... Better than I expected. Been watching aew most weeks of late but will always tune in to wwe for the road to maina.

I really like Roman as a heel. The way he speaks and carries himself, it just makes sense. Glad they pulled the trigger early on and didn't wait until they were past the point of no return like Cena.

Was kinda expecting Rollins to win but I can see how messy a quick turn wouldn't work out all that well for him.

Hoping for Daniel Bryan even though I'm a pretty firm believer in using the royal rumble as a device to build talent up rather than keep established talent at the top. Like McIntyre last year, Bianca this year.

I can't wait to see the most IMPORTANT WWE PPV of the year soon... Fast lane.

Will maybe watch a smackdown or raw here and there between now and Mania but will likely just keep tuning into aew tbh.

Wait, pulled the trigger early on XD.

They tried to get Reigns over as a face like 4 wrestlemanias in a row. 

Reigns has been great as a heel, but I'd hardly say they pulled the trigger early.



JWeinCom said:
ironmanDX said:

That sounds pretty believable.

Was a decent show actually... Better than I expected. Been watching aew most weeks of late but will always tune in to wwe for the road to maina.

I really like Roman as a heel. The way he speaks and carries himself, it just makes sense. Glad they pulled the trigger early on and didn't wait until they were past the point of no return like Cena.

Was kinda expecting Rollins to win but I can see how messy a quick turn wouldn't work out all that well for him.

Hoping for Daniel Bryan even though I'm a pretty firm believer in using the royal rumble as a device to build talent up rather than keep established talent at the top. Like McIntyre last year, Bianca this year.

I can't wait to see the most IMPORTANT WWE PPV of the year soon... Fast lane.

Will maybe watch a smackdown or raw here and there between now and Mania but will likely just keep tuning into aew tbh.

Wait, pulled the trigger early on XD.

They tried to get Reigns over as a face like 4 wrestlemanias in a row. 

Reigns has been great as a heel, but I'd hardly say they pulled the trigger early.

In regards to any regular wrestler, sure. Super late.

When it comes to their "guy" they plan on building the company around? Like Hogan, Cena... Hell... Even Bruno Sammartino never turned heel.

They pulled the trigger early in the context of who it was.



ironmanDX said:
JWeinCom said:

Wait, pulled the trigger early on XD.

They tried to get Reigns over as a face like 4 wrestlemanias in a row. 

Reigns has been great as a heel, but I'd hardly say they pulled the trigger early.

In regards to any regular wrestler, sure. Super late.

When it comes to their "guy" they plan on building the company around? Like Hogan, Cena... Hell... Even Bruno Sammartino never turned heel.

They pulled the trigger early in the context of who it was.

Yeah but that was in the era before weekly TV where we'd get sick of seeing someone win. Stone Cold and the Rock both went heel at points. 



JWeinCom said:

Yeah but that was in the era before weekly TV where we'd get sick of seeing someone win. Stone Cold and the Rock both went heel at points. 

Turning your top Babyface heel can work so long as the circumstances are lined up to where it can lead to huge success and more money for the promotion which is why Rock and Stone Cold's heel turns were so different.

Rock's heel turn worked because by '02, the fans had turned on him because he was leaving for Hollywood and felt like he sold out. So they wanted to boo him. Which was how we got Hollywood Rock, which in my view, is the greatest version of the Rock. Much like how Hollywood Hogan in WCW with the New World Order was just as, if not more popular, than Hulkamania. And it's for those two reasons why I'm still a little upset that we never did get Heel Cena, because the fans wanted to boo Cena as much as they wanted to boo Hogan after '92 and Rock in '02, and a corporate heel Cena, especially in '11-'12 against a babyface CM Punk, would've been AWESOME!

It worked with Rock and Hogan, it would've worked with Cena, and it's working for Roman now because the fans turned on them and wanted to boo them... unlike Austin.

Turning Stone Cold heel at WM17 was a HUGE mistake. And his Heel run in '01 was a flop. Even though it gave us some great, hilarious moments with Kurt Angle, there's a reason why by the end of the year, he was right back to being a babyface. Because unlike Hogan post '92, Cena post '05, Rock in '02, or Roman post-Shield, the fans NEVER wanted to boo him. There is no wrester in the history of the business, who was more over and more popular, at their peak, than Stone Cold Steve Austin. He's #1 in my view. He was so popular, he could've taken a crap in the middle of the ring and the fans would've popped. He could do no wrong. And in the weeks leading up to WrestleMania 17, he was as hot and as over as he had always been up to that point. Probably the worst decision they ever made at WrestleMania aside from ending the Streak.

ironmanDX said:

In regards to any regular wrestler, sure. Super late.

When it comes to their "guy" they plan on building the company around? Like Hogan, Cena... Hell... Even Bruno Sammartino never turned heel.

They pulled the trigger early in the context of who it was.

The difference between those guys and Roman was that they had already proven themselves as 'Top Guy' babyfaces capable of carrying the company to where they felt it would've been counterproductive from a business standpoint to turn them heel. 

Not sure about Bruno, but in regards to Hogan and Cena they did it the exact same way that Roman is doing now, they started out as heels, got over on their own as heels, perfected their craft as heels, and got so over and so popular with the crowd that they inevitably had to turn babyface. And then they were just as over as babyfaces as they were as heels. Sure the longer their runs went on, the fans eventually soured and got sick and tired of Hulkamania and 'Super Cena' when they were getting pushed too much at the expense of other guys on the roster *COUGHNexusCOUGH*. But there was never a question about whether or not they were over as Babyfaces and could carry the company on their backs as 'Top Guys', they absolutely could. 

The same couldn't be said for Reigns because he was never over on his own heel OR a babyface before last year.

Even though Reigns started out as a heel, he was over as part of the Shield with Rollins and Ambrose and they all turned babyface together. Then, when the Shield broke up and Reigns ventured on his own, he didn't catch on nearly as much with the fans the way Rollins and Ambrose did because those two had already made a name for themselves on the indies and had already mastered their craft the way Hogan and Cena did when they were given the torch, whereas Reigns was still very green. And the longer they insisted on it, the more it hurt Roman. To the point where finally, Vince had caved in and turned him heel and let him and Heyman run with this "Tribal Chief" character, and now FINALLY Roman is perfecting HIS craft and is now well on his way to being that top babyface Vince wants him to be.

Last edited by PAOerfulone - on 17 February 2021

PAOerfulone said:
JWeinCom said:

Yeah but that was in the era before weekly TV where we'd get sick of seeing someone win. Stone Cold and the Rock both went heel at points. 

Turning your top Babyface heel can work so long as the circumstances are lined up to where it can lead to huge success and more money for the promotion which is why Rock and Stone Cold's heel turns were so different.

Rock's heel turn worked because by '02, the fans had turned on him because he was leaving for Hollywood and felt like he sold out. So they wanted to boo him. Which was how we got Hollywood Rock, which in my view, is the greatest version of the Rock. Much like how Hollywood Hogan in WCW with the New World Order was just as, if not more popular, than Hulkamania. And it's for those two reasons why I'm still a little upset that we never did get Heel Cena, because the fans wanted to boo Cena as much as they wanted to boo Hogan after '92 and Rock in '02, and a corporate heel Cena, especially in '11-'12 against a babyface CM Punk, would've been AWESOME!

It worked with Rock and Hogan, it would've worked with Cena, and it's working for Roman now because the fans turned on them and wanted to boo them... unlike Austin.

Turning Stone Cold heel at WM17 was a HUGE mistake. And his Heel run in '01 was a flop. Even though it gave us some great, hilarious moments with Kurt Angle, there's a reason why by the end of the year, he was right back to being a babyface. Because unlike Hogan post '92, Cena post '05, Rock in '02, or Roman post-Shield, the fans NEVER wanted to boo him. There is no wrester in the history of the business, who was more over and more popular, at their peak, than Stone Cold Steve Austin. He's #1 in my view. He was so popular, he could've taken a crap in the middle of the ring and the fans would've popped. He could do no wrong. And in the weeks leading up to WrestleMania 17, he was as hot and as over as he had always been up to that point. Probably the worst decision they ever made at WrestleMania aside from ending the Streak.

ironmanDX said:

In regards to any regular wrestler, sure. Super late.

When it comes to their "guy" they plan on building the company around? Like Hogan, Cena... Hell... Even Bruno Sammartino never turned heel.

They pulled the trigger early in the context of who it was.

The difference between those guys and Roman was that they had already proven themselves as 'Top Guy' babyfaces capable of carrying the company to where they felt it would've been counterproductive from a business standpoint to turn them heel. 

Not sure about Bruno, but in regards to Hogan and Cena they did it the exact same way that Roman is doing now, they started out as heels, got over on their own as heels, perfected their craft as heels, and got so over and so popular with the crowd that they inevitably had to turn babyface. And then they were just as over as babyfaces as they were as heels. Sure the longer their runs went on, the fans eventually soured and got sick and tired of Hulkamania and 'Super Cena' when they were getting pushed too much at the expense of other guys on the roster *COUGHNexusCOUGH*. But there was never a question about whether or not they were over as Babyfaces and could carry the company on their backs as 'Top Guys', they absolutely could. 

The same couldn't be said for Reigns because he was never over on his own heel OR a babyface before last year.

Even though Reigns started out as a heel, he was over as part of the Shield with Rollins and Ambrose and they all turned babyface together. Then, when the Shield broke up and Reigns ventured on his own, he didn't catch on nearly as much with the fans the way Rollins and Ambrose did because those two had already made a name for themselves on the indies and had already mastered their craft the way Hogan and Cena did when they were given the torch, whereas Reigns was still very green. And the longer they insisted on it, the more it hurt Roman. To the point where finally, Vince had caved in and turned him heel and let him and Heyman run with this "Tribal Chief" character, and now FINALLY Roman is perfecting HIS craft and is now well on his way to being that top babyface Vince wants him to be.

Never said the Austin heel turn was a good thing, just that top guys don't always stay baby faces.