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Forums - Sports Discussion - The Pro Wrasslin' Thread (WWE, WWF, WCW, TNA, ROH, NWA, NJPW, etc)

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What match are you excited for at WWE Payback 2017?

Neville vs. Austin Aries ... 1 5.88%
 
Randy Orton vs. Bray Wyat... 3 17.65%
 
The Hardy Boyz vs. Cesaro... 3 17.65%
 
Kevin Owens vs. Chris Jer... 4 23.53%
 
Bayley vs. Alexa Bliss (Raw Women's Title) 3 17.65%
 
Seth Rollins vs. Samoa Joe 1 5.88%
 
Roman Reigns vs. Braun Strowman 2 11.76%
 
Total:17

Honestly, I don't think I've ever been less enthusiastic about Mania then I am right now.
Aside from Roman and Brock (shocker), I don't really care about anything else. Not even Seth and the possibility of Cody showing up or even Stone Cold coming back to confront Owens.
This is the first time where I've looked at WrestleMania and that "...Eh."



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First night of Mania was pretty decent. An enjoyable time overall, even if it wasn't as "stupendous" as they marketed it.

Opener was a Smackdown calibur match between Nakamura/Boogs and the Usos. It looked like they were building to something, but then the match just kind of came to a halt with a bland finish. Turns out Boogs had a legit injury, which is a shame. Not totally their fault, but a lackluster start nonetheless.

Logan Paul and Miz vs the Mysterios exceeded expectations. Logan Paul actually looked decent. Hit a nice looking blockbuster. Aside from the "celebrity" angle though, there was nothing amazing about this. But it was enjoyable enough.

Drew McIntyre and Happy Corbin was meh. It wasn't a bad match and they have good chemistry, just the build around the stupid sword wasn't very good. Ok TV level match. Hopefully McIntyre could move on. He cut the ropes while attempting to murder Madcap Moss which I guess is the payoff for the sword angle.

The best matches are the ones where you become actually emotionally invested in the outcome, and forget it's all fake. Bianca and Becky got be there. Just a great all around match playing into the extended build that played off of the storyline that had been progressing since Summerslam. Becky's in match acting is top notch, and when they look like they really care, you care. There are a couple of nitpicks, like Bianca's surge of energy at the end being a bit too extreme, but all in all an excellent match.

Seth Rollins' mystery opponent was exactly who you expected. Amazing how much much they were able to promote a match by not promoting it. For one night at least Cody seemed like a mega star. He finally got the fans on his side, and he didn't even have to set himself on fire! Will be interesting to see where they go from here. I was expecting this might just be a "Welcome Back" squash match, but they instead had a fairly long match that got better as it went on as it became less about the excitement of the return and more about the match itself.

Rousey vs Flair was just ok. There are some things Ronga does really well, but a long drawn out match is just not in her skillset right now. There were some good moments, but the transitions and stuff just weren't crisp and there were a couple of blown spots. Considering how good the two matches before were, this was a little bit of a let down. Not awful, but not Mania quality.

Stone Cold vs KO was a great example of underpromising and overdelivering. If they said this was going to be a match, people would probably be expecting too much, but marketing it as a show kept expectations low, and the match was a fun surprise. As for the match itself, well it was no Melina vs Alicia Fox. Stone Cold didn't look as good as you would hope, but also much better than you'd fear. It was some fun fluff that the 13 year old in me really enjoyed, and nothing wrong with sometimes just giving people what they want.

So overall, good night. The main problem is that even compared to normal PPVs, it felt like there was a lot of dead time. Just didn't have enough content for two whole events. We'll see if tonight is better or worse.



Well, so far, worse for night 2.

Opening match was a tag team spotfest, and it was fine. High energy opener. Did its job.

Lashly vs Amos was better than one might have expected. Omos is no Big Show, but he's competent enough to work a decent match with the right opponent. A bit early to have Omos lose, but Lashley has a legit claim to a title match, so keep him strong.

And, Sami Zayn vs Knoxville went ridiculously long. I found his schtick sophmoric when I was sophmoric. To sum this match up,



So, if you are like homer and find people getting hit in the nuts amusing, there you go.

As for the women's match, that just started, but already match of the night since they sent out Liv Morgan in black leather.

Edit: So, women's match was about as good as you could expect in a fatal four way tag. It was a Young Bucksish spotfest, so the type of people who like that sort of thing will probably like this. For me, the cooperation was too obvious at points which took me out of it. But as far as this sort of thing goes, it was one of the better of its ilk. Just kind of a bummer there are so many talented people thrown in here instead of having a bigger spot light. Probably could have taken out Omos vs Lashley or Mcyntyre vs Corbin and built up something worthwhile for Banks or Rhipley.

Edit Again: AJ Styles vs Edge was good because of course it was. Two of the best having a good old school match. Ending was kind of a bit odd. I don't know why they had Damian Priest just distract AJ by standing there doing nothing. It doesn't protect Styles cause he just looks like a moron, and it doesn't make Edge seem more dastardly. Just... weird choice.

Seamus and New Day were bumped from last night, so they gave them the match tonight and gave it like 5 minutes. Kind of pointless. 

Pat Macafee vs Austin Theory was surprisingly good. Everything after the match itself was some of the dumbest stuff I've seen in wrestling history. I fucking loved it. There is a time and a place for sports entertainment, and this was it. It didn't happen at the expense of a legit wrestler, and it let us have the nostalgic fun of Austin stunning McMahon one last time. And, as I get older, I kind of appreciate a 76 year old man getting to go out there and have the time of his life. 

The main event was fine. Just kind of missing something considering how much they hyped it. The build was good in the sense that both guys were so unbeatable that it seemed impossible for either of them to lose. On the other hand, both guys win so much that it's hard to get excited about one of them winning. The match itself was fine, but we've seen better matches out of each guy with other people, and even better matches between the two of them. And, we've seen better matches today and yesterday. It was good just couldn't live up to the hype. Reigns run as a heel has been great, and I'm glad Lesnar wasn't the guy to end it. But, now is really time to get on to the guy that will. 

Overall it was a mostly enjoyable day of watching wrestling (watched both the shows today). Saturday's event was very good, and today was just ok. I like the two day Mania in theory, but they didn't build up enough good feuds to fill 2 days. If you took the best stuff, AJ vs Edge, Rollins vs Rhodes, Bianca Belair vs Becky Lynch, KO vs Austin, MacAfee vs Theory, and Lesnar vs Reigns, you have one of the better manias on record. But, while I like more people getting a chance, there was a lot of stuff that just felt thrown in. They just didn't have enough material. 

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 04 April 2022

This may surprise some, but I used to be OBSESSED with wrestling back in like 2007-2011. Huge fan of the story telling component, of all things lol. I quit after getting way too into it. I mean, I used to watch every Raw, every Smackdown, some ECW, and I was reading behind the scenes details and rumors on some wrestling website I can't remember the name of all the time. It was bad, so I quit lol.

Anyway, I decided, since I have paid Peacock for other reasons, to just skim through WrestleMania to check things out again. I was concerned it could suck me back in, but it did the opposite. Seeing Triple H come out clearly limited by his heart issues, seeing Undertaker come out in professional clothing clearly indicating he isn't doing wrestling anymore, seeing how diminished Vince McMahon sounded in the recording with Seth Rollins in his office and seeing how slowly he strutted down the aisle, just made me kind of sad. I wonder, now, if this is how my dad viewed people like Ric Flair back when he'd watch wrestling with me in that 2007-2011 period. It's hard watching people you got such entertainment from get like this.



On a less somber note, I have always thought it would be cool if they started mixing women and men together in matches, especially if the story or physical size calls for it. Why limit yourself to fighters A-M fighting each other and fighters N-Z fighting each other when you could have A-Z matches happening? A lot more variety potential.

Just imagine how awesome a slow-building, decade long rivalry Charlotte Flair and Cody Rhodes could have like their fathers had in the 80's. Would be amazing!



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Yup, this is the first wrestlemania I've skipped. I was quite hopefull and getting hyped but just kinda fell off and didn't end up watching it either. Have not watched much AEW either.

Probably becuase Formula 1 and AFL (Australian football) is back, it's taken a backseat again. Though I did find the royal rumble to be quite... average which certainly didn't help.



BasilZero said:
Dulfite said:

This may surprise some, but I used to be OBSESSED with wrestling back in like 2007-2011. Huge fan of the story telling component, of all things lol. I quit after getting way too into it. I mean, I used to watch every Raw, every Smackdown, some ECW, and I was reading behind the scenes details and rumors on some wrestling website I can't remember the name of all the time. It was bad, so I quit lol.


2007 to 2009 was good but after that I would say it got real bad until 2015 and 2016.

Its kind of bad right now but thankfully AEW exists so it balances out (that and now that there's potential of AEW stars going to WWE and vice versa which already has been happening).

I started watching in 1998 or something, watched until 2004, then sorta slipped away. Kept away until 2011 when Edge retired and CM Punk did his pipe bomb. Stayed with it until 2018 or something, but then gave up again (Seriously WWE is so bad...I don't know how anyone can defend their creative decisions. It's almost like they actively chose the worst option for every booking decision, or actively resist the fans for some absurd reason.) 

But then AEW came out in 2019 and I've been hooked ever since. IT's a blend of sports entertainment/goofiness and actual good wrestling. It has some dumb shit, for sure, but at least they don't actively resist the fans or disrespect their talent to put over dudes from 1996 coming back to steal the spotlight all the time. It's just more compelling and it's the most I've been into Pro Wrestling, maybe ever. 



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch, XSX

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

BasilZero said:
Dulfite said:

This may surprise some, but I used to be OBSESSED with wrestling back in like 2007-2011. Huge fan of the story telling component, of all things lol. I quit after getting way too into it. I mean, I used to watch every Raw, every Smackdown, some ECW, and I was reading behind the scenes details and rumors on some wrestling website I can't remember the name of all the time. It was bad, so I quit lol.


2007 to 2009 was good but after that I would say it got real bad until 2015 and 2016.

Its kind of bad right now but thankfully AEW exists so it balances out (that and now that there's potential of AEW stars going to WWE and vice versa which already has been happening).

WWE always seems to be interesting when there’s some kind of drive or struggle against common cultural expectations or rules going on. The main reason people loved it so much in the late 90s and early 2000s was because they were counterculture. They were doing stuff on TV you weren’t supposed to do. Yeah, you might see a lot of that stuff  in films, but that was a different world. Nowadays it’s flipped, anything goes on TV - LOTS of nudity and extreme violence - they even have rape and incest in TV shows now (that was an rarity in film, even in the 70s through 90s period) - but now, sex scenes in films won’t even show a tit anymore.

The women’s Revolution was another counterculture thing. WWE was going against the grain once again when you had rampant sexism permeating the culture. They’re like “Yeah, we’re going to make women 10 times more prominent on our shows” - it kind of felt like “Are they supposed to do that? Won’t the pro-wrestling market hate that?” And the opposite happened.

Off topic, but it’s why I loved Paul Verhoeven American films; even Showgirls - maybe especially Showgirls. They were doing violence and sex stuff that the general public hated. Showgirls was so far over that line that it’s become a massive cult classic even to this day - it was totally rejected by the press, bashed with every criticism under the sun when asked about it, bombed at the box office. Still one of MGMs highest selling films of all time thanks to rentals and home video sales :D



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

BasilZero said:
Runa216 said:

I started watching in 1998 or something, watched until 2004, then sorta slipped away. Kept away until 2011 when Edge retired and CM Punk did his pipe bomb. Stayed with it until 2018 or something, but then gave up again (Seriously WWE is so bad...I don't know how anyone can defend their creative decisions. It's almost like they actively chose the worst option for every booking decision, or actively resist the fans for some absurd reason.) 

But then AEW came out in 2019 and I've been hooked ever since. IT's a blend of sports entertainment/goofiness and actual good wrestling. It has some dumb shit, for sure, but at least they don't actively resist the fans or disrespect their talent to put over dudes from 1996 coming back to steal the spotlight all the time. It's just more compelling and it's the most I've been into Pro Wrestling, maybe ever. 


I honestly didnt start watching WWF/WWE until 2002 or 2003.

I was a WCW fan lol - mainly due to Goldberg, NWO and Sting.


But ya WWE for the most part is bad but it has its good moments every now and then.

I do still watch the WWE PPVs but that's about it. Because they push so many video packages you can get the entirety of the story compressed in 3-5 minutes without missing anything. their repeat shows, their 50/50 booking, their repetition of matches and story beats...it's all quite redundant. You really only need to watch the PPV matches and the pre-show hype. 

And I confess, I actually liked this year's Wrestlemania. it still wasn't AEW quality in terms of matches or storytelling, but I thought they did a lot more good than bad, I didn't hate any of the matches (not even that godawful Vince/Pat match, which was only there for story reasons, not for the actual match), and while I disagree with Ronda losing after everything (Seriously, Charlotte's good but she's not THAT good), I actually thought most of the booking decisions were correct this time. If nothing else, I'm just glad Brock didn't win. I know he's supposed to be the face in that exchange but Roman going over was absolutely the right decision. I've always felt Roman was great at what he did, it was just the booking/writing that let him down. 

I just wish they'd make him ACTUALLY dominant instead of the same old 'the heel can't win without cheating or getting outside help' trope they fall back on every goddamn time. Ironically, except Brock Lesnar. Reigns should be running through fools without help like Brock Lesnar. no shitty Paul Heyman distractions, no Uso protection club. Just Reigns standing tall, being dominant, and actually EARNING his place. 

So yeah, I don't HATE WWE entirely, I just think that, between the terrible writing and the poor booking and the falling back on the same tired tropes, it's gotten boring. I know I really shouldn't be constantly comparing WWE and AEW since they're playing to different audiences, but it's such a stark difference between them. 

Like, you're potentially going to get classic, 5-star matches on AEW Dynamite because they actually try to do something interesting every week. WWE has so much programming that they gotta repeat stuff and it leaves little room for creativity. the wrestlers in WWE are generally pretty damn good, but the booking and writing regularly ruin them. 

Oh, and as an aside, it upsets me to an irrational level that Cody is back in WWE. it genuinely pisses me off, and I know it shouldn't. I didn't even like him all that much in AEW but I still feel betrayed unless this is VERY clever long-term booking where he uses this to come back to AEW in a year or two or something. Either way, it just pisses me off and I lost a lot of respect for him. 



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch, XSX

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

I have a confession to make. I am not a real person. I am an anti AEW bot, like pretty much everyone who speaks negatively about AEW.

https://twitter.com/TonyKhan/status/1512479987672432640?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1512480599256100869%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es2_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwrestlingheadlines.com%2Ftony-khan-makes-wild-claim-about-anti-aew-fans-being-bots%2F

Either he's trying to steal Sami Zayn's gimmick, or he is legitimately unhinged. Maybe the my pillow guy will hold a rally to show just how deep this conspiracy goes.