Haven't followed WWE besides Wrestlemania in 3 years and decided to check out the rumble. It was pretty bad. They seriously need to develop new stars. I don't mind Ronda winning but the whole storyline between Brock and Reigns was already there no need to use the rumble as a plot point. The Reigns Rollins match was quite good though.

Welp, thank God I didn't pay for it.

Ah yes, Royal rumble. The only event on WWE's calendar that I'm ever even remotely interested in watching. And yet somehow they keep failing me. I have yet to actually watch the match, but I am already pretty certain I hate it. I hate brock winning. I hate world title matches that end in shenanigans (Even though I do think the idea of Roman Reigns losing by DQ but clearly winning in terms of dominance is pretty brilliant). I hate brock winning. I hate that Sasha Banks was dumped in like 5 minutes. I hate that Kevin Owens and Big E did basically nothing. I hate that shane is in the rumble. I hate that Brock won when he absolutely didn't need to win.

I hate that he won after less than 3 minutes, making him the 'fastest' winner ever, thus proving that he just comes in, gets paid, and gets out ASAP. His match was the shortest on the card, and his time in the rumble was by far the shortest of any winner.I wouldn't even mind brock if he gave a fuck about anything, but no, he's just in, do the match in 5-10 minutes, out. He does this, and Daniel Bryan/Adam Page goes an hour and is a bonafide classic. you need time to build stories. you need a bit of time to actually work the crowd. An occasional quick-shot exhibition match is awesome. Brock vs Goldberg at Wrestlemania/survivor series were both great because the length of the match was part of the story. But thius? Naw. Fuck all of this.

There's a reason I haven't been watching regularly since 2018. IT's just all garbage. No respect for up and coming talent. The booking sucks. Kevin Dunn the producer keeps fucking up and not getting anything on camera during the rumbles, they melted the wrestlemania sign due to the pyro...How is it this bad?

I don't mind Ronda Rousey winning because, for how much people hate her, she regularly puts on the best match on any card she's on, so I actually like watching her. I don't think she needed the Rumble Win either, but at least her winning will get something good out of it. Rhea Ripley or Sasha Banks or Bayley or Asuka/Bianca a second time woulda been better. Fuck, make Shayna Baszler win, have Ronda win the title at elimination chamber, BOOM, money match right there. It's just....they had dozens of options and they went for the most WWE, boring-assed bullshit they could.

Brock's just gonna squash roman. again. Because of fucking course he is. I am sooooooooooo sick of brock vs Roman. The only way that match is interesting for me is if Roman completely Destroys brock for like 20 minutes straight. Just dominates the match. spear, Superman punch, spear through the barricade, Brock tries to suplex, gets elbowed in the fucking head for 2 minutes straight, spear, suplex, more superman punches, just 20 minutes of Roman completely fucking DESTROYING Brock. a squash similar to when Brock squashed John Cena. that's the only way that'd be interesting. Roman ends up standing over Brock, having barely broke a sweat. And he raises the belt, says 'this is my yard now' and then Brock fucking retires because I'm so goddamn sick of him.

Again, I still have to watch the show, so the actual matches might be fine, but the booking is just so, SO bad. It's like...this is why I watch AEW exclusively now. I don't even watch NXT anymore becuase now NXT is the same bullshit as Raw/Smackdown, but smaller. I do not understand how a company so big and powerful gets it so consistently wrong.

Five minutes into the first match, I'm already sick of the commentators. Holy shit do they not know how obnoxious it is to overreact to virtually every little thing that happens?

The matches they set up were fine. Brock Lesnar vs Roman Reigns is fine. They've built the feud wonderfully. Roman's character is great, Brock's is great, Heyman is great, it's all great, even if it's not your cup of tea. Likewise, Ronda Rousey is a legit household name, she's good enough in the ring, and returning after a long time, they'd be stupid not to put her in the main event.

The issue is that they went with the obvious finish in both matches. As soon as Lesnar lost and Ronda entered you knew what was coming. And they also had two non-finishes for two matches that I actually really wanted to see. And, they didn't have to go that way, at least not both. Not sure why you expect Reigns to get squashed by Brock, as it hadn't happened in their other meetings. 

I'm not defending this show because it wasn't good, but at the same time it also doesn't warrant this kind of reaction. This show was essentially Batman v. Superman. It was designed to set up something down the road, and it did that. What they set up may or may not turn out good. But, as a show in itself, it wasn't satisfying. If I'd paid PPV prices for this, I'd definitely have been upset. For like 5 bucks a month as part of Peacock, it's fine.

Not sure why AEW comes in this, or why it makes sense to compare a Rumble to Bryan and Hangman. The fact that this show wasn't very good doesn't make me want to watch AEW any more, just like if it was great it wouldn't want to make me watch AEW any less. 

... Eh... Seems like an odd way to spend your time if you're expecting to dislike it and pretty much know you won't like the booking at least, but do you I guess.

They still sell them I think, for people who don't have broadband capable of streaming. I have Peacock pretty much only for the WWE network, so I feel I did pay for it, but not that much at least.

I just skipped the men’s Rumble match. This is the first WWE event I’ve watched since last Royal Rumble. And since they’ve done things like the whole Brock thing I basically asked my wife “look up the results and only tell me them if it’s Brock Lesnar or Randy Orton winning” - it’s not that I dislike Lesnar, but I don’t have any interest in another Lesnar/Reigns match, like the one they set up earlier with Heyman betraying Lesnar. Orton, I know he has a lot of fans, I just haven’t found any match he’s been in for about 16 years to be interesting. “Oh! But he tells a story in the ring!” - sure, insofar that his matches have a beginning, middle, and end with culmination points… is that supposed to impress me? Just about every wrestler I’ve ever seen does that. Telling a great story is something Orton doesn’t do… Bret Hart vs Michaels Iron Man Match was a great story, Bret Hart vs Austin WM13 was a great story, Ciampa vs Gargano was a great story with callbacks, like the sit down, to their earlier DIY team era. Rock vs Austin at Wrestlemania 17 was a great story. Orton’s best story is that match he had with Foley, which probably doesn’t even enter Foley’s top 40. I’m sure he’s a nice guy, so I feel kind of bad about this, but FUCK Orton, I’m glad he was gone in two minutes even if I didn’t suffer to watch it :D

Royal Rumble often had that great match back in the day, the match that was a contender for best match of the year. In 1998 we got to see Shawn Michaels shatter his back just months after the Montreal screw job. In 1999 a fantastic I Quit match between Mankind and The Rock (the one where Rock used a fake recording) - substantially better than Foley vs Orton, but Foley topped that one at the 2000 RR event
with perhaps the greatest Street Fight in WWE history against Triple H as Cactus Jack, his retirement match - IMO, this one was better than his match against Undertaker HIAC, but not as insane (that HIAC for the first time was like watching Cloverfoeld for the first time). In 2001, Benoit vs Jericho in the ladder match where Jericho bent Benoit’s back over the top of the ladder. In 2003, Benoit vs Angle, I’ll always remember this one because it was the first time I ever recall seeing a full rotation German in WWE. And the Royal Rumble, to this day is usually very interesting. I like the women’s match better than the men’s, usually.

This year’s I LOVED the last few moments of the women’s match. I was disappointed to see Ivory go down so quickly, and to have her feel so scripted with her RTC gimmick on the mic - when she was by far the best in the women’s division in that capacity in her time. I understand why she didn’t do anything in the ring given she’s in her 60s, but I think they could have done her better. Wouldn’t it have been great if she commented on how WWE was finally cleaned up in the way RTC wanted? That would have been closer to the truth.
My favourite moments:
My three biggest highlights were Lita, Rousy, and one that made me legitimately angry for a half a second… yeah, I literally marked (I’ll get to that later).
First, Lita, blew the roof off! And she went out there and has as great of a showing as she’s ever had. She was moving faster and more fluid than she did most of her career in WWE (I’m guessing she worked injured a lot). She had passion, energy, she looked strong, I loved every moment of it! Oh yeah, Shotzi Blackheart, I’m not familiar with her as I stopped watching NXT before she became a thing, but damn! Her and Lita had sparks for the few moments they engaged.
Second, Rousey, holy fuck! I was happy to see her back, and winning. A lot of people hate her, but she never failed to entertain me. The mic’s not her strong point, I hope they keep her away from it except to say “fuck you!” to the crowd. I want her to be an angry heel that pisses off the crowd by destroying their favourites, twisting their arms. I’m going to be watching WWE again, whatever show she’s on. That said, I hated how they booked her toward the end of the match, laying on the ground like a wounded child - Rousey should have beat the fuck out of everyone and not done any overselling. It should have been about survival for everyone else at the end until Rousey’s inevitable victory. I want to see the Rousey that put Steph’s arm in a cast, the Rousey that beat the shit out of Correia. And I don’t want a smiley Rousey, I want her to do what Baszler did in NXT, a cruel heartless bitch.
Before I get to my last point, the women’s Royal Rumble showed just how much thinner the women’s division has become in the last year or two. So many of them were guest stars (I’m assuming), it felt like half. It kind of made it feel like a bit of a gimmick battle royale.
Now the third! First, I love the Riott Squad. Early in their career, there was this scene where they were just walking through the backstage area and casually trashing the place, years ago now, but it was brilliant. They had this genuine bond, and it transcends the labels of companies because they’re all friends in real life. That said, when I saw the Bellas put out Sarah Logan and Liv Morgan, I had a legitimate mark-out moment where I felt extreme rage! Then smiled as I realized the WWE bookers actually got me on that one :)
So I stayed in mark-mode (smark mode, I guess) a little longer for when Rousey beat the shit out of the Bellas :D

First thing Rousey should do is play into the Internet narrative that the crowd turning on her annoyed her (it likely didn’t), and say “I’m done with your shit! Yeah you fuckers cheered for me, but I’m not buying it! I’d make fun if you for being unemployed white trash if you weren’t all 15 and under or 75 and older. Or maybe you just look that way because of the inbreeding… well, maybe not, this isn’t AEW and she’s not MJF :D

Next, Lashley vs Lesnar was great until the end. I normally hate these big man vs big man matches, because they’re slow and boring with, but this one was really good! A lot better than Lesnar vs Roman will be. But, they must have had that idiot booker who had Rousey lay down selling for 3 minutes, because Lashley did the same fucking thing! Stop doing this shit! I wish wrestlers had more say in what they do, because you know Lesnar and Lashley would have had a better idea than that to fill the time gap. They fucked up the ending, plain and simple. Unfortunately, they clearly engineered a stupid Reigns vs Lesnar feud when a Lesnar vs Lashley Street Fight at Wrestlemania or I Quit match would have been much more fun.

I missed a bunch of Becky vs Piper Nevin (doudrop? WTF?). Did she come up with that one on her own? Someone should have said something. The match had some good spots, can’t comment much further.

Did anything else happen? I missed Beth Phoenix and Edge vs Miz and Maryse (which I might watch later), and Reigns vs whoever (that I’ll only watch if it’s a squash match with power bombs or something).

Video game youtubers at every Nintendo Direct. Every single announcement “HOLY SHIT!!! THIS IS THE MOST AMAZING THING EVER!” (Does a backflip).

”Dude, they just announced a new suit colour for Peach in Smash Bros”

This whole post of yours shows we'll never see eye to eye on this. 

The way WWE does basically everything is not only juvenile and shallow, but disrespectful. Disrespectful to the fans, to the talent, and to the industry as a whole. and they keep doing it. My reactions are absolutely justified, WWE needs to be better but instead they just cater to whatever makes the most money while taking the least risk. 

I don't even wanna get into WWE vs AEW, but it's so very clear which company actually respects its fans. And you can't even say I'm just an AEW Fanboy, because I was 100% with WWE from 1998-2018. A full 20 years of my life I was watching WWE, and the more I watch the less I like it. the more predictable it is. the clearer it is that whoever's dictating the story and direction actively goes out of the way to troll their audience. 

I go back every year in January and watch every royal rumble from 2000 up to whatever year it is, and I've been doing this since 2012. I watch them all, sometimes 2-3 of them a day. this year, I was watching with a bit more scrutiny now that I've seen how much better Professional Wrestling can be. Pretty much everything from 2000-2010 had a consistent level of quality to them. Well structured, with storylines littered throughout. Stories within the rumble itself like Kane just wrecking the 2001 show or Jericho faking out michaels in 2003 or the hazing of Daniel Puder in 2005 (I didn;t say they were ALL good stories). But whatever happened, something was happening. there was a narrative at play be it for that show or for later. 

The rumble regularly set up or paid off multiple stories, with clashes happening and mixes and matches that made sense. Remember how Mick Foley came in and wrecked Randy Orton, setting up a match at Wrestlemania without having to give the win to either of them? Remember how 2007 ended with Michaels and Taker, then 2008 started with Michaels and Taker? Remember how in 2009, Orton successfully rallied Legacy to win over HHH? Remember in 2006 when Rey Mysterio channeled Eddie Guerrero to win? All of this is great storytelling, with spots and almost always a feel-good ending. Or, at the least, an ending that worked. 

then, in 2011-2015, shit just suuuuuuuucked. Like, the commentary crew changed, the bullshit was through the roof, heels were obnoxious instead of menacing, and it was all just a bunch of garbled bullshit. I notice this isn't too far after WWE went PG so I imagine that had a lot to do with it. but, like, Michael Cole just yelling loudly and being a moron about everything only to then turn around and do the thing he was complaining about in 2012? Garbage. Bad writing, bad character work. Cole is better now, but there was a 2-3 year stretch when his commentary ruined everything. I know the color commentator (heel commentator) is supposed to be a shitty person, but he was just bad. 

Lately, they do the same shit with corey Graves. which sucks because I know for a fact corey Graves is a great commentator. but now he's just acting like an obnoxious fool you have to listen to because he's on commentary. He just makes me go 'shut up and go away'. He has 'go away' heat, not heel heat. You know who has great fucking heel heat? You know, the one where he's a slimy shithead and you want to see someone beat him down? MJF. He's the most snivelling shit-heel asshole in wrestling right now and while his bullshit is just as obnoxious and stupid as WWE, he does it WELL. In a way that makes you root against him. 

but yeah, 2011-2015 it was always the wrong winner, the favourites either got thrown out early/disrespectfully, or the commentary was just terrible. Alberto Del Rio was just...I went back and reexamined his career and I genuinely have no idea what anyone saw in him. Boring, lame, uninteresting, not threatening, etc. Plus he was barely in the company when he won, so I just don't get it. sheamus was probably the best from this stretch but Jericho should have won. Cena didn't need the win. Batista didn't need the win. I do actually agree with Roman winning in theory but man did the fans hate him and Bryan should have won either 2014 or 2015.

Fortunately, 2016-2021 were varying levels of okay. HHH winning in 2016 was....okay, I don't think HHH needed the win but in the context of the story it made perfect sense. Orton didn't need to win a second time and the resulting Wrestlemania match was trash. If they needed Randy vs Bray, let Bray win for whatever reason. New star, new winner, elevates folks. Shinsuke winning was great and the last bit with the old school vs the new school was genuinely brilliant, too bad shinsuke never got elevated like he was supposed to and his match with AJ sucked. Seth Rollins winning and besting Brock was pretty awesome from top to bottom and that was a pretty decent show. 2020's sucked for the first half. I really, really hate Brock's style now; used to love him in 2002-2004, but holy crap his stuff is just so bland and repetitive now. Coulda done something with Braun Strowman and Keith lee, but nooooooo....it's not the WWE way. But the end/winner was right. 2021 was...actually shockingly really good. like I said, I went back and watched them over the last few weeks and 2021's rumble was easily one of the better ones. 

I don't have much to comment on the women's rumbles because there are so few of them and even when I don't like Charlotte winning, it made sense and given her status within the women's division, she deserved at least one rumble win. Asuka, Becky Lynch, Charlotte, Bianca Belair, and Ronda Rousey are all good pics and I don't have any complaints (Even though it's clear they want Charlotte to be the best ever in that regard, too; there's a reason people are sick of her, and it's not because of her actual skill or passion. She's the female Roman Reigns)

I'm rambling. I doubt you'll even read it. I'm just saying that I spent 25-30 hours over the course of this month comparing and contrasting the various rumbles throughout the ages and there was a clearly marked decline from 2011 onward. Again, 2016-2021 were all kinda ups and downs, but they didn't have the same storyline build up or in-ring storytelling. Rarely have any of the winners or plots been resolved or successfully carried through. Even when they get things right, they still somehow manage to fuck it up. and an ongoing throughline since 2011 is that they actively resist anyone the fans actively get behind. Punk should have gotten a rumble victory. Bryan Danielson should have gotten a rumble victory. Bray Wyatt deserved one. Jericho absolutely deserved one. We didn't need to see Cena, Orton, Brock, Batista, and Edge getting second wins when those all could have went to better or more deserving guys. The Rumble is at its best when it's elevating new talent, or skyrocketing someone up the card who clearly deserves it. You don't need to give those guys the boost. 

guys like Kevin Owens and AJ Styles and Big E and so many others needed it more. They deserve it much more. and WWE Disrespecting them by refusing to give it to them is exactly why there's such a consistent backlash to it all. the WWE Talent is pretty damn great overall. I'd say 75% of the roster is deserving of praise for their work. They're amazing at what they do and guys like Owens and Zayn and AJ and Rollins are among the best in the world. the writing just sucks, the direction sucks, the booking is disrespectful, and since 2014-2015, it just seems like the creative direction of the company is specifically designed to troll the fans and piss everyone off. Either WWE is deaf to the chants of the audience or they are actively trolling. Either way, it's not a company I feel anyone over the age of 12 should emotionally invest in. Their writing and booking just don't pay off. and that should piss you off knowing that they're legitimately the biggest and most influential company in town. 

I skimmed it, but am confused as to why you quoted me in it, because it was not at all responsive to what I said.

In regards to AEW vs WWE, it's really irrelevant to the conversation. Unless you made some deal with the devil where you have to follow one and only one wrestling promotion, it doesn't really matter which one is better. If both are good watch both, if both suck watch neither. If they're both putting on excellent stuff, then you may have to choose because time is limited, but one putting on a bad show should have no bearing on how likely you are to watch the other. Like you said, last year's was very good. Did that make you say "Well fuck AEW, never watching that shit again WWE for life fuckers!" It shouldn't have, and this is the same kind of reaction in the other direction.

In regards to the rest of it... It was a bad rumble. Not really fighting that point, since I already said I was disappointed. Last year's rumble was good. It happens. The last five years winners have been Lesnar, Edge, McIntyre, Rollins, and Nakamura. So a good balance of top stars and people who needed a push. For women, its been Rousey, Belair, Flair, Becky Lynch, and Asuka. Again, a decent balance. If the Rumble was always won by people who were "up and comers" it would lose meaning. Because there are four top belts now (which kind of sucks in itself but w/e) there's still a chance for two more needing superstars to get a mania spot, so we'll see how that shakes out.

As for the overall quality of the product, of course something becomes more predictable the more you watch it. Because good storytelling is fundamentally going to be the same. Naturally, as time goes on, they've already used up the best ideas. Not everyone has been watching for 20 years, so if they have stories that work, they want to use them for newer fans. If you cater only to your longtime fans, you wind up with an ever shrinking audience. Same things tend to happen with comic books, games, and other medium. Maybe after 20 years you've just kind of seen enough of the product, and if so, then that's fine, don't watch it. But... to feel disrespected implies that you're taking it personally, which is kind of odd. The wrestler's might have a reason to take it personally, but if so, they're adults, and they can work that out.

If WWE is trying to make money while minimizing risk... then yeah. That's what good businesspeople do. The fact that it's making money means it's appealing to an audience, just not you.   

At any rate, you claim to have spent 25-30 hours comparing various rumbles... Which, I don't mean to be disrespectful, but seems kind of odd. I mean, if you found that to be a good way to spend your time, then by all means, but it seems like you're perhaps a bit too emotionally invested. For me, I watch the PPVs, Raw and Smackdown when I can. I generally enjoy the time I spend watching, and if I don't, I may post my feelings, and then just move on. Again, you do you, but becoming overinvested in something can completely suck the joy out of it, and that's what this seems like to me.