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Forums - Politics Discussion - Face it. It is over. Trump won.

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Trump or Hillary?

Trump FTW! 305 51.69%
 
Hillary all the way! 285 48.31%
 
Total:590

I'm Canadian so I have no say in the end, but I watch a lot of American T.V. and see enough of the politics and debates to have a somewhat informed decision on who I would vote for.

This election reminds me a lot of the movie Gladiator. The great and mighty Caesar on his death bed who wishes for his top general Maximus to take over due to the absolute corruption of Roman politics. His "political as it gets" son Claudius, who would only make the existing state of Rome worse than it already is, will not give up this "right" and kills his own father to get it. Sure enough Rome continues to be a joke run by sleazy senators who keep the people "in line" by using the glitz and glam of show business.

I hate to say it but this pretty much sums America up to a "T" from my perspective. You have Trump who is not a politician and is not corrupted in the same way (corrupt businessman may be a different story) and you have Hillary the "rightful heir" who will just keep things the same way as they are now. How ironic it is that Hollywood clearly "favors" Hillary and she uses them a lot as a "veil" to cover up her agenda. Sound familiar?

Comparing Trump to the great General Maximus in the movie is a bit of a stretch yes, but it follows the plot line very closely. Truthfully I don't like either candidate all that much, but I definitely would pick Trump over Hillary.

Trump would at least be able to bring back some of the equality that once existed, financially anyway. Gender equality as well should get better with Trump with his daughter being a big part of his life and being an intelligent person herself. Racial equality is another story, but after Obama, I don't see Trump or Hillary being able to hold a candle to what Obama has done in that respect. Having someone like Trump in power for America right now seems like the best option. Someone who is realistic and willing to make tough decisions based on logic and not solely on politics. The fact that he seems never to get insulted or upset when someone disagrees with him or makes fun of him (outside of the political campaign competition), yet Hillary goes off the handle if you question her in any way, makes me feel that Trump is the right person to be dealing with other world leaders.

Trump may have a big mouth, and may say some dumb things sometimes, but they are always minor and forgetful in the grand scheme of things. I would much rather have Trump who will do the right thing for the people, as opposed to a sweet talker who's going to do what's best for her agenda and not for America.

Oddly enough most everyone else I talk to in Canada, friends, family, co-workers, seem to think Hillary would be better due to her political experience. Then again they are the same ones who voted for our current Prime Minister who hasn't been doing a whole lot of good for the country since he took over so...



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EricHiggin said:

I'm Canadian so I have no say in the end, but I watch a lot of American T.V. and see enough of the politics and debates to have a somewhat informed decision on who I would vote for.

This election reminds me a lot of the movie Gladiator. The great and mighty Caesar on his death bed who wishes for his top general Maximus to take over due to the absolute corruption of Roman politics. His "political as it gets" son Claudius, who would only make the existing state of Rome worse than it already is, will not give up this "right" and kills his own father to get it. Sure enough Rome continues to be a joke run by sleazy senators who keep the people "in line" by using the glitz and glam of show business.

I hate to say it but this pretty much sums America up to a "T" from my perspective. You have Trump who is not a politician and is not corrupted in the same way (corrupt businessman may be a different story) and you have Hillary the "rightful heir" who will just keep things the same way as they are now. How ironic it is that Hollywood clearly "favors" Hillary and she uses them a lot as a "veil" to cover up her agenda. Sound familiar?

Comparing Trump to the great General Maximus in the movie is a bit of a stretch yes, but it follows the plot line very closely. Truthfully I don't like either candidate all that much, but I definitely would pick Trump over Hillary.

Trump would at least be able to bring back some of the equality that once existed, financially anyway. Gender equality as well should get better with Trump with his daughter being a big part of his life and being an intelligent person herself. Racial equality is another story, but after Obama, I don't see Trump or Hillary being able to hold a candle to what Obama has done in that respect. Having someone like Trump in power for America right now seems like the best option. Someone who is realistic and willing to make tough decisions based on logic and not solely on politics. The fact that he seems never to get insulted or upset when someone disagrees with him or makes fun of him (outside of the political campaign competition), yet Hillary goes off the handle if you question her in any way, makes me feel that Trump is the right person to be dealing with other world leaders.

Trump may have a big mouth, and may say some dumb things sometimes, but they are always minor and forgetful in the grand scheme of things. I would much rather have Trump who will do the right thing for the people, as opposed to a sweet talker who's going to do what's best for her agenda and not for America.

Oddly enough most everyone else I talk to in Canada, friends, family, co-workers, seem to think Hillary would be better due to her political experience. Then again they are the same ones who voted for our current Prime Minister who hasn't been doing a whole lot of good for the country since he took over so...

In the movie Gladiator, everything would have been fine if the outgoing leader's recommendation for his successor had been respected.  Is this the plot similarity you mean? 



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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

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Machiavellian said:

They already are taking military measure.  This is nothing new and pretty much par for the course.  Are you saying that any president should not be willing to use our military if someone attacks us no matter how the attack is done.  There are many institutions that can fall prey to cyberattacks that directly effect and cripple the US.  Just because someone behind a computer did the act instead of shooting a gun does not mean the act doesn't have the same reach and ramifications.

Saying we will respond to attacks with everything the US has including military is pretty much par.  If another nation hacked us that caused loss of life or damange to our infrastructure then what do you think any president would do.  You are isolating one word but not looking at the whole picture which is that the statement mentioned multiple measures we would take.

No, I'm telling, again, that she is specifically talking about DNC hacking and about Russia. That is cyber espionnage, that is not State classified information, this is not an "attack", that is not proven it comes from Russia, the USA are doing the same thing, so she should not talk about military actions regarding that. If someone hacks and destroy a nuke plant, that is attack, and that will be dealt with military response, and there are thin chances Russia want to start a war with the USA, and thin chances they are stupid enough to not understand the signifiance of a cyber attack to the USA. If she want to talk about that anyway, then she should talk about that, not about the DNC leak. But you perfectly know she is exactly talking about DNC, and implying she would use USA might against anyone that want to show her messy business.



Machiavellian said:
Norris2k said:

Trump has been quite explicit about it, talking about ending "Carried Interest Tax Loophole". So it would give smaller companies the kind of low taxes global companies enjoy through loopholes. But at the end of the day, it depends if one can believe him on it or not. Obama also talked about it and just did nothing, so that's would not be new to be all talk, and no action. Based on campain funding alone, he is the one that has any chance to do it.

Could you find evidence where Trump has been explicit about getting rid of the loopholes.  From what I have found he made some off hand metion of removing loopholds but he was never made any specific and going through his tax plan there isn't anything there.  With Trump track record, and the fact that if he did not put it in writting the chance of him actually doing it is slim to none.  Just going by how Trump does business, his word means nothing and most time him putting something in writting means nothing as well.  You really have to go by what he actually put in writting and then from there beleive any talking point would be done to sell his plan but not neccessaryly something he would actually do.

Interesting enough, Hillary has made not only this claim to get rid of the "Carried Interest Tax loophole" she even went so far as to say she will institute executive action if Congress will not do it (which they will not).

There is a pretty good article about it in the New York times here. It's already a year old, so it's really something stated from the very beginning, not a late addition. He also talked again about it in his economic speech you can find on youtube, explicit but quite vague.

Again, at the end of the day, it's not just about if they are talking about it or not, it's about if you believe them or not. If you think Trump is a pathological lier and only care about self interest, then whatever he says, even if write it, it probably mean anyhting.

For me, just by looking on funding, I'm pretty sure that Clinton will do nothing (or in a meaningless way, or create other loopholes), because she got so much money from Wall Street (both in her fundation and funding), because she does not plan tax cuts to compensate, and because Obama that had much more credibility on this topic did nothing.
I believe Trump could do it because he basically get no money from, and he's hated by Wall Street, because he talked about it very soon and very strongly ("hedge fund get away with murder"), because he is an outsider, and because most corrupted politicians hate him. Also, I think he want to succeed, he want to be the guy that made America great again, remembered as the famous, unbelievable, Trump. I think Clinton does not have this kind of dream, she will achieve her political career by being president, the position itself is the goal. I'd be interested about your opinion on that, that's something I really believe. But still, I say "could do it", because it's not like he has never lied, it's not like I know him personally or through a long track of record.



LadyJasmine said:
PwerlvlAmy said:
If conspiracy theories dont happen then I feel Hillary has this election in the bag,regardless of her health

This election is very unperdictable, I won't place any bets. 

No doubt. I say Hillary because of what happened to Bernie. There's no way possible Hillary can lose



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PwerlvlAmy said:
LadyJasmine said:

This election is very unperdictable, I won't place any bets. 

No doubt. I say Hillary because of what happened to Bernie. There's no way possible Hillary can lose

And exactly what happened to Bernie that would inform Hillary's performance in the general election? 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

EricHiggin said:

I'm Canadian so I have no say in the end, but I watch a lot of American T.V. and see enough of the politics and debates to have a somewhat informed decision on who I would vote for.

This election reminds me a lot of the movie Gladiator. The great and mighty Caesar on his death bed who wishes for his top general Maximus to take over due to the absolute corruption of Roman politics. His "political as it gets" son Claudius, who would only make the existing state of Rome worse than it already is, will not give up this "right" and kills his own father to get it. Sure enough Rome continues to be a joke run by sleazy senators who keep the people "in line" by using the glitz and glam of show business.

I hate to say it but this pretty much sums America up to a "T" from my perspective. You have Trump who is not a politician and is not corrupted in the same way (corrupt businessman may be a different story) and you have Hillary the "rightful heir" who will just keep things the same way as they are now. How ironic it is that Hollywood clearly "favors" Hillary and she uses them a lot as a "veil" to cover up her agenda. Sound familiar?

Comparing Trump to the great General Maximus in the movie is a bit of a stretch yes, but it follows the plot line very closely. Truthfully I don't like either candidate all that much, but I definitely would pick Trump over Hillary.

Trump would at least be able to bring back some of the equality that once existed, financially anyway. Gender equality as well should get better with Trump with his daughter being a big part of his life and being an intelligent person herself. Racial equality is another story, but after Obama, I don't see Trump or Hillary being able to hold a candle to what Obama has done in that respect. Having someone like Trump in power for America right now seems like the best option. Someone who is realistic and willing to make tough decisions based on logic and not solely on politics. The fact that he seems never to get insulted or upset when someone disagrees with him or makes fun of him (outside of the political campaign competition), yet Hillary goes off the handle if you question her in any way, makes me feel that Trump is the right person to be dealing with other world leaders.

Trump may have a big mouth, and may say some dumb things sometimes, but they are always minor and forgetful in the grand scheme of things. I would much rather have Trump who will do the right thing for the people, as opposed to a sweet talker who's going to do what's best for her agenda and not for America.

Oddly enough most everyone else I talk to in Canada, friends, family, co-workers, seem to think Hillary would be better due to her political experience. Then again they are the same ones who voted for our current Prime Minister who hasn't been doing a whole lot of good for the country since he took over so...

EricHiggin, have you done actually any research on Trump outside of what you may hear from TV.  The reason I say this is that your opinion seems to be one where you are dismissing a lot of the history of Trump the businessman and seem to be making assumption that he is somehow better.  It's not that Trump has a big mouth its the fact that he doesn't have a clue what he is doing.  You can easily go to Trump web site and Hillary website and see a clear difference between the 2.  One site list a lot of policy about pretty much every political issue and stance on those issues.  You go to another site and you see a lot of ambigious talking points but most important you see a very small list of items that canidate is going to do.  

You say Trump will bring back equality but exactly how will this be accomplish by him.

Trump daughter cannot advise or have any real communication with her father if he becomes president because it would be a conflict of interest if she and her brother are still running the Trump Organization as Trump stated they would do if he become POTUS.  

Your next point I have to wonder if you actually have paid any attention to Trump.  You state Trump seesm to never get insulted or upset when someone disagrees with him make me seriously wonder exactly what canidate you have been watching for he past year.

Exactly why do you believe Trump will do the right thing for the American people and not do the right thing for Trump and his family.  Like I asked, have you did any research on Trump the business man.  After that look at his tax plan how it favors people like him.



Norris2k said:

There is a pretty good article about it in the New York times here. It's already a year old, so it's really something stated from the very beginning, not a late addition. He also talked again about it in his economic speech you can find on youtube, explicit but quite vague.

Again, at the end of the day, it's not just about if they are talking about it or not, it's about if you believe them or not. If you think Trump is a pathological lier and only care about self interest, then whatever he says, even if write it, it probably mean anyhting.

For me, just by looking on funding, I'm pretty sure that Clinton will do nothing (or in a meaningless way, or create other loopholes), because she got so much money from Wall Street (both in her fundation and funding), because she does not plan tax cuts to compensate, and because Obama that had much more credibility on this topic did nothing.
I believe Trump could do it because he basically get no money from, and he's hated by Wall Street, because he talked about it very soon and very strongly ("hedge fund get away with murder"), because he is an outsider, and because most corrupted politicians hate him. Also, I think he want to succeed, he want to be the guy that made America great again, remembered as the famous, unbelievable, Trump. I think Clinton does not have this kind of dream, she will achieve her political career by being president, the position itself is the goal. I'd be interested about your opinion on that, that's something I really believe. But still, I say "could do it", because it's not like he has never lied, it's not like I know him personally or through a long track of record.

I can tell you I believe that unless Republicans are serious on getting rid of the loophold then nothing will come of it.  Since this was not something put into Trump econmic plan, I would have to guess its not something he is pulling behind 100%.  Also you said that Obama has done nothing for getting rid fo the loophold.  I believe you should actually read the first link you posted because it clearly stated that he has tried to get rid of the loophold a few times but as always was blocked by Congress and most importantly Republicans.

Trump being an outsider and hated by his party and the democrates means he will get nothing done.  You cannot come into the President office and not be able to get your own party let alone the other party to put forth your policy if they are all going to just nix it in Congress.  Being an outsider, no real political experience and hated by your party and the other party just means he will have an even worst situation then Obama did.

My opinion on Hillary is that she definitely want to be the first woman president and this drives her every day.  She will say and do whatever it takes to reach this goal.  I also believe that she does not want to be considred the worst president.  I believe she will actually attemp to do what she has stated because she wants to be remembered as a successful person and President to close out her career.  Yes, I believe that Hillary and her husand have used their positions to get rich.  I believe that Hillary will continue to use her position to get even richer.

I believe that Trump only wants to be President because it helps Trump organization.  From the early Primaries to now, it seems like Trump does not put in the work to understand the multiple issues facing the country.  It appears to me that Trump wants the job because it will make selling his name an even bigger lurcative business.  I see him pushing policy that seem to only help himself.  Look at the people that make up Trump economic advisor team and you see that even though Trump has talked about getting rid of loopholds, he advisors are made up of exactly the people this would hurt.  Also all of those people are the biggest donors to his campaign which seems suspect that he says he is not susceptible to big money donors but then he hires them to help run the country.  I do not believe Trump cares about being a good president or actually turning America around.  



Machiavellian said:

I can tell you I believe that unless Republicans are serious on getting rid of the loophold then nothing will come of it.  Since this was not something put into Trump econmic plan, I would have to guess its not something he is pulling behind 100%.  Also you said that Obama has done nothing for getting rid fo the loophold.  I believe you should actually read the first link you posted because it clearly stated that he has tried to get rid of the loophold a few times but as always was blocked by Congress and most importantly Republicans.

Trump being an outsider and hated by his party and the democrates means he will get nothing done.  You cannot come into the President office and not be able to get your own party let alone the other party to put forth your policy if they are all going to just nix it in Congress.  Being an outsider, no real political experience and hated by your party and the other party just means he will have an even worst situation then Obama did.

My opinion on Hillary is that she definitely want to be the first woman president and this drives her every day.  She will say and do whatever it takes to reach this goal.  I also believe that she does not want to be considred the worst president.  I believe she will actually attemp to do what she has stated because she wants to be remembered as a successful person and President to close out her career.  Yes, I believe that Hillary and her husand have used their positions to get rich.  I believe that Hillary will continue to use her position to get even richer.

I believe that Trump only wants to be President because it helps Trump organization.  From the early Primaries to now, it seems like Trump does not put in the work to understand the multiple issues facing the country.  It appears to me that Trump wants the job because it will make selling his name an even bigger lurcative business.  I see him pushing policy that seem to only help himself.  Look at the people that make up Trump economic advisor team and you see that even though Trump has talked about getting rid of loopholds, he advisors are made up of exactly the people this would hurt.  Also all of those people are the biggest donors to his campaign which seems suspect that he says he is not susceptible to big money donors but then he hires them to help run the country.  I do not believe Trump cares about being a good president or actually turning America around.  

Fair answer, even if I disagree, you can deal with an advisor, with the congress, but not with a lobby financing you.

About Obama "doing nothing", just to clarify... I ignored this part in this article as it is in my opinion pure media bias. He was elected in 2009, he waited 6 straights years until 2015 to start talking about it, when the situation with the congress is at its worst, as far as I understand it he is just talks but no bill, nothing, and he has no plan this time for an executive order (according to Bernie Sander, it's doable this way, even if - same source - not really fine). Just because he waited 6 years, that's a joke to say he did anything about it, really. Look, I put the blame on the GOP for the blockings, but he fights it or he resigns.



Norris2k said:
Machiavellian said:

I can tell you I believe that unless Republicans are serious on getting rid of the loophold then nothing will come of it.  Since this was not something put into Trump econmic plan, I would have to guess its not something he is pulling behind 100%.  Also you said that Obama has done nothing for getting rid fo the loophold.  I believe you should actually read the first link you posted because it clearly stated that he has tried to get rid of the loophold a few times but as always was blocked by Congress and most importantly Republicans.

Trump being an outsider and hated by his party and the democrates means he will get nothing done.  You cannot come into the President office and not be able to get your own party let alone the other party to put forth your policy if they are all going to just nix it in Congress.  Being an outsider, no real political experience and hated by your party and the other party just means he will have an even worst situation then Obama did.

My opinion on Hillary is that she definitely want to be the first woman president and this drives her every day.  She will say and do whatever it takes to reach this goal.  I also believe that she does not want to be considred the worst president.  I believe she will actually attemp to do what she has stated because she wants to be remembered as a successful person and President to close out her career.  Yes, I believe that Hillary and her husand have used their positions to get rich.  I believe that Hillary will continue to use her position to get even richer.

I believe that Trump only wants to be President because it helps Trump organization.  From the early Primaries to now, it seems like Trump does not put in the work to understand the multiple issues facing the country.  It appears to me that Trump wants the job because it will make selling his name an even bigger lurcative business.  I see him pushing policy that seem to only help himself.  Look at the people that make up Trump economic advisor team and you see that even though Trump has talked about getting rid of loopholds, he advisors are made up of exactly the people this would hurt.  Also all of those people are the biggest donors to his campaign which seems suspect that he says he is not susceptible to big money donors but then he hires them to help run the country.  I do not believe Trump cares about being a good president or actually turning America around.  

Fair answer, even if I disagree, you can deal with an advisor, with the congress, but not with a lobby financing you.

About Obama "doing nothing", just to clarify... I ignored this part in this article as it is in my opinion pure media bias. He was elected in 2009, he waited 6 straights years until 2015 to start talking about it, when the situation with the congress is at its worst, as far as I understand it he is just talks but no bill, nothing, and he has no plan this time for an executive order (according to Bernie Sander, it's doable this way, even if - same source - not really fine). Just because he waited 6 years, that's a joke to say he did anything about it, really. Look, I put the blame on the GOP for the blockings, but he fights it or he resigns.

Actually from this <a href="http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/42/tax-carried-interest-as-ordinary-income/">Link</a>, they have tried to get rid of this loophold since 2010.  As evident from the Link, trying to get something done unless you have enough controlling votes is pretty hard unless the other party and even a few in your own is getting something for it.  Anytime a president goes outside of congress to do something there is a lot of flack.  You never really know how the deals are made outside of the public eye and the cost to get things done.  Either way, I believe you cannot say he did nothing or only did something at the end.  There seems to be a lot of political crap going on which is probably a lot of stuff we never get privy to.