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Forums - Politics Discussion - Face it. It is over. Trump won.

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Trump or Hillary?

Trump FTW! 305 51.69%
 
Hillary all the way! 285 48.31%
 
Total:590
Mnementh said:

Soundwave said:

Trump is the most dishonest person to come into politics in 30 years+++++. This whole thing about "they're both the same" is bullshit. They're not.

Well, Clinton is opting every time she has the chance for war. That alone makes her instantly a bad candidate in my book. I don't say Trump is good, but basically it boils down to Cholera vs. pestilence. Yes, we could argue for hours about who of the two is the lesser evil, but basically they're both bad. Fortunately the americans have other options: Jill Stein, Gary Johnson, Gloria la Riva...

Especially when she talks about replying by military means to Russia's supposed hacking, and blaming them for about anything, this is pure madness. That not becoming a major topic for newspaper really proves they are leashed. And she's alone on this, because wether it's Trump, Jill Stein, or Gary Johnson, they seems to have a much more realistic approach when dealing with a major nuclear weapon state.



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Norris2k said:

So yeah, tax cuts, infrastructure spending, get money back with better deals (China, military base, etc.), get rid of tax loopholes, review the spending, tax Chinese imports and get back the money from offshore seems like a very good plan for me.

I agree with you if there are tax cuts then loopholes should be removed.  Problem is that few politicians want to get rid of the loopholes because they are controlled by special interest groups aka lobbyist.  They mainly just talk about lowering taxes and no mention of getting rid of loopholes.  I'm all for lower taxes if you cut exemptions out for personal (even ones that I benefit from like getting some money back from student loan interest, and house) and businesses.



Norris2k said:
Mnementh said:

Well, Clinton is opting every time she has the chance for war. That alone makes her instantly a bad candidate in my book. I don't say Trump is good, but basically it boils down to Cholera vs. pestilence. Yes, we could argue for hours about who of the two is the lesser evil, but basically they're both bad. Fortunately the americans have other options: Jill Stein, Gary Johnson, Gloria la Riva...

Especially when she talks about replying by military means to Russia's supposed hacking, and blaming them for about anything, this is pure madness. That not becoming a major topic for newspaper really proves they are leashed. And she's alone on this, because wether it's Trump, Jill Stein, or Gary Johnson, they seems to have a much more realistic approach when dealing with a major nuclear weapon state.

Does this statement sound like she is advocating military action as in ground troops but cybertroops

"We need to respond to evolving threats from states like Russia, China, Iran and North Korea," Clinton said in the speech. "We need a military that is ready and agile so it can meet the full range of threats and operate on short notice across every domain – not just land, sea, air and space but also cyberspace."

Are you 2 stating that our military should not be capable of handling and responding to cyberattacks and should not treat those threats as if they were harmfull to theUS.  If any one of those countries knockout our infratstructure, banks, city and local government through cyberattacks how do you think we should respond?



The thing is both Trump and Hillary will get involved overseas.

Hillary is a classic neoliberal War Hawk



Machiavellian said:
Norris2k said:

Especially when she talks about replying by military means to Russia's supposed hacking, and blaming them for about anything, this is pure madness. That not becoming a major topic for newspaper really proves they are leashed. And she's alone on this, because wether it's Trump, Jill Stein, or Gary Johnson, they seems to have a much more realistic approach when dealing with a major nuclear weapon state.

Does this statement sound like she is advocating military action as in ground troops but cybertroops

"We need to respond to evolving threats from states like Russia, China, Iran and North Korea," Clinton said in the speech. "We need a military that is ready and agile so it can meet the full range of threats and operate on short notice across every domain – not just land, sea, air and space but also cyberspace."

Are you 2 stating that our military should not be capable of handling and responding to cyberattacks and should not treat those threats as if they were harmfull to theUS.  If any one of those countries knockout our infratstructure, banks, city and local government through cyberattacks how do you think we should respond?

What I'm refering to is "Russia is even hacking in the Democratic National Commity. Maybe even some state elections. So we have to step up our game. Make sure we are well defended, and ready to take the fight to those that go after us. [...] We will be ready with serious political, economical and military responses.". Even if you imply that this cyber counter attack, you do not make a bold statement about military answer to Russia.

USA is hacking a lot of countries, wikileaks proved even close allies like germany and France, and certainly Russia and China. Do you want them to take military measures, including cyber attacks ? That's now how it works, we are talking about cyber espionnage, everyone do it, everyone has to protect itself against it, and that's just how the game is.

Here she specifically point at espionnage and leaks from Russia, which as far as I know is not even proven, and which should not lead to any military response. Because how do you think Russia would react to a military response ? We are talking about ending the world here, that's totally crazy.

If a country knockout anything, that is an act of war, this is China/Russia or whatever declaring war on USA. This should be not linked in the same speech with DNC hacking, which is a whole different topic.



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sethnintendo said:
Norris2k said:

So yeah, tax cuts, infrastructure spending, get money back with better deals (China, military base, etc.), get rid of tax loopholes, review the spending, tax Chinese imports and get back the money from offshore seems like a very good plan for me.

I agree with you if there are tax cuts then loopholes should be removed.  Problem is that few politicians want to get rid of the loopholes because they are controlled by special interest groups aka lobbyist.  They mainly just talk about lowering taxes and no mention of getting rid of loopholes.  I'm all for lower taxes if you cut exemptions out for personal (even ones that I benefit from like getting some money back from student loan interest, and house) and businesses.

Trump has been quite explicit about it, talking about ending "Carried Interest Tax Loophole". So it would give smaller companies the kind of low taxes global companies enjoy through loopholes. But at the end of the day, it depends if one can believe him on it or not. Obama also talked about it and just did nothing, so that's would not be new to be all talk, and no action. Based on campain funding alone, he is the one that has any chance to do it.



If conspiracy theories dont happen then I feel Hillary has this election in the bag,regardless of her health



NND: 0047-7271-7918 | XBL: Nights illusion | PSN: GameNChick

Norris2k said:
Machiavellian said:

Does this statement sound like she is advocating military action as in ground troops but cybertroops

"We need to respond to evolving threats from states like Russia, China, Iran and North Korea," Clinton said in the speech. "We need a military that is ready and agile so it can meet the full range of threats and operate on short notice across every domain – not just land, sea, air and space but also cyberspace."

Are you 2 stating that our military should not be capable of handling and responding to cyberattacks and should not treat those threats as if they were harmfull to theUS.  If any one of those countries knockout our infratstructure, banks, city and local government through cyberattacks how do you think we should respond?

What I'm refering to is "Russia is even hacking in the Democratic National Commity. Maybe even some state elections. So we have to step up our game. Make sure we are well defended, and ready to take the fight to those that go after us. [...] We will be ready with serious political, economical and military responses.". Even if you imply that this cyber counter attack, you do not make a bold statement about military answer to Russia.

USA is hacking a lot of countries, wikileaks proved even close allies like germany and France, and certainly Russia and China. Do you want them to take military measures, including cyber attacks ? That's now how it works, we are talking about cyber espionnage, everyone do it, everyone has to protect itself against it, and that's just how the game is.

Here she specifically point at espionnage and leaks from Russia, which as far as I know is not even proven, and which should not lead to any military response. Because how do you think Russia would react to a military response ? We are talking about ending the world here, that's totally crazy.

If a country knockout anything, that is an act of war, this is China/Russia or whatever declaring war on USA. This should be not linked in the same speech with DNC hacking, which is a whole different topic.

They already are taking military measure.  This is nothing new and pretty much par for the course.  Are you saying that any president should not be willing to use our military if someone attacks us no matter how the attack is done.  There are many institutions that can fall prey to cyberattacks that directly effect and cripple the US.  Just because someone behind a computer did the act instead of shooting a gun does not mean the act doesn't have the same reach and ramifications.

Saying we will respond to attacks with everything the US has including military is pretty much par.  If another nation hacked us that caused loss of life or damange to our infrastructure then what do you think any president would do.  You are isolating one word but not looking at the whole picture which is that the statement mentioned multiple measures we would take.



Norris2k said:
sethnintendo said:

I agree with you if there are tax cuts then loopholes should be removed.  Problem is that few politicians want to get rid of the loopholes because they are controlled by special interest groups aka lobbyist.  They mainly just talk about lowering taxes and no mention of getting rid of loopholes.  I'm all for lower taxes if you cut exemptions out for personal (even ones that I benefit from like getting some money back from student loan interest, and house) and businesses.

Trump has been quite explicit about it, talking about ending "Carried Interest Tax Loophole". So it would give smaller companies the kind of low taxes global companies enjoy through loopholes. But at the end of the day, it depends if one can believe him on it or not. Obama also talked about it and just did nothing, so that's would not be new to be all talk, and no action. Based on campain funding alone, he is the one that has any chance to do it.

Could you find evidence where Trump has been explicit about getting rid of the loopholes.  From what I have found he made some off hand metion of removing loopholds but he was never made any specific and going through his tax plan there isn't anything there.  With Trump track record, and the fact that if he did not put it in writting the chance of him actually doing it is slim to none.  Just going by how Trump does business, his word means nothing and most time him putting something in writting means nothing as well.  You really have to go by what he actually put in writting and then from there beleive any talking point would be done to sell his plan but not neccessaryly something he would actually do.

Interesting enough, Hillary has made not only this claim to get rid of the "Carried Interest Tax loophole" she even went so far as to say she will institute executive action if Congress will not do it (which they will not).



PwerlvlAmy said:
If conspiracy theories dont happen then I feel Hillary has this election in the bag,regardless of her health

This election is very unperdictable, I won't place any bets.