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Forums - Sony - Sony supported Mods in UT3 and Microsoft didnt where was the outcry back then? Media Bias

There was an outcry back then, you only have to check the forums (Gamefaqs, Epic Games' forums...etc) about people being displeased at the way Microsoft handled it. Heck even the Vice President of Epic Games back then praised Sony for doing what Microsoft didn't ( http://web.archive.org/web/20120713025003/http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2008/jan/30/themarkreininterview ), even if he somewhat tried to defend MS by saying that their closed-ecosystem that didn't allow for anything unchecked was great:

"I think Sony are real pioneers in this - I think they deserve a lot of credit for letting us do this. They're really doing something different, and it hints at what they want to do with the PlayStation Network in the future. They're definitely on the right track!"

So it's not Media Bias, really. Internet wasn't as big as it is today, and so the outcry isn't as big as it is today, but the fact is, the info is still lying there, for everyone to see.

 

Times change, I guess. I don't think Mark Rein thought Sony would one day prevent mods from happening in their console when he made that statement.



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Teeqoz said:
Acevil said:

I would say in the eyes of mainstreaming gaming media (Youtube, Memes, etc.), Skyrim is really what took it off. Half Life had it as well, and most likely the most famous for the gamers at the time.

I disagree. Minecraft is what made mods mainstream, not Skyrim.

Well, that just took it into insane levels, still feel skyrim had huge part, namely in the youtube scene, average non-pc gamer sense. I do agree that was and might still be the biggest mod community (console versions and microsoft seem to want to kill the mod community, also bungie support sucks now and no mod API).  



 

LudicrousSpeed said:
Kerotan said:
 It's all faux outrage aswell.

Pack it up, boys. We've been found out. We really didn't want mods in our game.

Did "we" not want them back in the ps3 days either?  Or all that time the pc has been doing them?  Why is it only an issue now?  No outrage last gen,  but meltdowns galore this gen. 



Acevil said:
Teeqoz said:

I disagree. Minecraft is what made mods mainstream, not Skyrim.

Well, that just took it into insane levels, still feel skyrim had huge part, namely in the youtube scene, average non-pc gamer sense. I do agree that was and might still be the biggest mod community (console versions and microsoft seem to want to kill the mod community, also bungie support sucks now and no mod API).  

We just disagree even more! I think Minecraft (in relation to mod support here) reached out to precisely those crowds much more than Skyrim. Skyrim might have played a part amongst PC gamers that wasn't really aware/interested in the mod community (because no, not all PC gamers take advantage of mods, not then, and not now either), while Minecraft was more important in more casual demographics.



Teeqoz said:
Acevil said:

Well, that just took it into insane levels, still feel skyrim had huge part, namely in the youtube scene, average non-pc gamer sense. I do agree that was and might still be the biggest mod community (console versions and microsoft seem to want to kill the mod community, also bungie support sucks now and no mod API).  

We just disagree even more! I think Minecraft (in relation to mod support here) reached out to precisely those crowds much more than Skyrim. Skyrim might have played a part amongst PC gamers that wasn't really aware/interested in the mod community (because no, not all PC gamers take advantage of mods, not then, and not now either), while Minecraft was more important in more casual demographics.

I understand what you mean, I can totally see that. Hell I barely use mods ever, and I have used shit tone of Minecraft mods. It was hell putting on mods during the beta. 



 

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Well, it is bias. Xbox always gets special treatment. Its just not expect to have the same criticism as PlayStation.



CGI-Quality said:
Hynad said:

You are being stubborn. The quantity of mods and downloads speak for themselves. Modding was a part of PC gaming way before Skyrim, no one is denying that, but Skyrim is the game that pushed that aspect to new level when it comes to mainstream awareness.

Nope, no stubborness to it. No one denied that Skyrim pushed modding to new heights. At all. The point was that it was a big deal before it.

I read his post completely out of context and I lol'd.  

 

Finally a thread where we can criticise mods and not get banned!  :P 



Teeqoz said:
Acevil said:

I would say in the eyes of mainstreaming gaming media (Youtube, Memes, etc.), Skyrim is really what took it off. Half Life had it as well, and most likely the most famous for the gamers at the time.

I disagree. Minecraft is what made mods mainstream, not Skyrim.

Nah, you're both wrong.  Youtube is the reason modding hit the mainstream.  Even before Skyrim or Minecraft.  Oblivion was pretty big for mod vids and articles.  I'm sure there were some games before that.  Hell, most gamers probably don't even use mods, but they sure as heck watch vids and read articles about them.  Of course, mods have been a part of PC gaming since almost the beginning, becoming REALLY big with Doom.  There are so many Doom mods, it's probably countless.  There are probably even some that have been lost in time.

@ OP

At least where the American media is involved, there is definitely a bias towards MS.  I mean, compare the launches of last gen to this one.  Any negatives about the PS3 were harped on.  Poorer 3rd party games.  Expensive compared to the 360.  No controller vibration.  Were these things that should have been talked about?  Of course. But, let's look at this gen.

We started getting journalists excusing the power gap.  "Can't really tell the difference."  Inferior 3rd party games were no longer that big a deal.  Barely talking, some not even talking, about MS purposely deceiving gamers about the power of the XBO by having their launch games running on PCs.  Heck, some were even trying to excuse MS's online policies.  Now, not having 4K Bluray support and wanting quality control on mods is the worst thing ever and it may hurt the Slim and/or Pro.  (Looks at Amazon and Gamestop) Guess they were wrong?



Well in this case Bethesda themself are promoting the reaction, and having a corporate backer lends credibility in eyes of media etc.
Bethesda is certainly disengenous about the issue, they certainly knew from day 1 of Sony's requirements yet present it as if it is a sudden, unforseeable development.
Honestly, even if one doesn't like the outcome, it seems a pretty consistent ruling from Sony...
It just doesn't make sense for Sony to have a moderation system for games if mods can completely bypass that.
Game doesn't pass moderation?
No prob, just strip it down to engine and demo assets, then upload your porn/racist/crash-inducing whatever as a mod, NO PROBLEM.
Look, hackers trying to break the systems treat ability to execute arbitrary code as big deal, especially when tied into core systems like in this case the GPU etc.
Freely open mods pretty much means exactly that, and it is not craaaazy for Sony wanting to moderate that.
Sony probably has requirements to not compete with side Sony businesses e.g. music streaming.
Which could trivially be implemented a a "mod" within a game.
Any argument for why mods don't need moderation should equally apply to all games and apps, period, right?
So, sure, understandable why people don't like the outcome here, but expecting Sony to break their own rules seems silly.
Most especially for Bethesda who knew and worked with the rules all along, and then pretends like they're being prevented from doing something they thought they were allowed to do.
Saying "Sony will not approve user mods the way they should work: where users can do anything they want" is just fantasist material,
no professional developer should be publicising that level of fantasy material, when "users can do anything they want" has and is conflicted with how Sony has run Playstation from Day 1.
I mean, how does Bethesda know how mods "should" work on Playstation? Drop the presumption please.
If that really was their position, how did they ever publish games on Playstation, which in fact did have to pass moderation?
Why didn't they publicize their stance about how that was a violation of how things "should" work, at the time?
If they didn't have a problem with moderation then, what grounds do they have to complain now?
I honestly have less of a problem about gamers complaining about this, then Bethesda themself, especially their dishonest presentation of the issue,
when they were intimately involved with moderation all along, knew what the rules were, and cry when they Sony won't change them for Bethesda.



Ruler said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qinr93dlCI0

 

 

See this video for proof, i agree with him. Bethesda cant even run properly their main game without bugs, their mods are dangerious if they dont quality controll them. I think Sony makes the right decision to not allow them.

As you can see Sony supported Mods in Unreal Tournment 3 on the PS3 but Microsoft didnt so where was the outcry back then?

We did. They didn't care back then because they were trying out assassination animations on the PS3 just for fun. 

Market leader doesn't has to answer to the consumers sadly... Damn capitalism!