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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Pachter: If the NX flops, Nintendo will still have 9.5 Billion dollars in the bank (They have 10 last time Pachter checked)

I thought they were down to 6 or 7 but 10 sounds good enough.



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Pemalite said:


Nintendo should rightfully be ridiculed on this, not defended.

Nintendo shut down 562 fan projects... Compound that with their war on Youtube content creators... And well, you get the idea. Nintendo aren't nice.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1273071

Maybe Nintendo is trying to look after their IPs.  Should they be nice?  Just don't put your fan made stuff on the net to share with everyone and they won't fuck with you.



sethnintendo said:

Maybe Nintendo is trying to look after their IPs.  Should they be nice?  Just don't put your fan made shit on the net to share with everyone and they won't fuck with you.

Nintendo *should* look after it's Intellectual Property. But they could also do so without crapping on their fan base.
Remember these are some of Nintendo's biggest fans that they are attacking.

Acevil said:

What I want to know is do you think fan projects deserve money? You do know how trademark works right? You also know the Nintendo strongest asset is these IPs, and what happens if Nintendo does not enforce trademarks? 

Also many companies defend their trademark, namely when their IP name is used. Chrono fan projects get shot down like that.


It really depends.
I mean if you make a fan project and you host it on your own servers, then there is substantual costs involved and that should at the very least be covered with say... Advertising or donations.

Again, other companies have not shut down fan projects, they have invested time and money and gave the fan community attention. (Blizzard for instance, tends to be typically good at this, minus the Overwatch confuffle.)

Nintendo could curate these fan projects, put them under the Nintendo banner and foster their biggest fans instead of attacking them, they will then remove any IP issues and their community would thrive.

potato_hamster said:

You're right. Nintendo isn't nice.  But that's the only thing you're right about.

They still aren't buying and publishing fan projects ever. They really can't do that and it's ridiculous to think so.


It doesn't matter when Nintendo shut them down, those fans started those projects knowing that the would never be allowed to release them freely. And the point remains, it doesn't matter how polished they may appear, the underpinnings of the game could be incredibly unstable, poorly written, incredibly unsecure. What if it turns out that buried deep in the code is a virus that infects the consoles the game are played on, and suddenly Wii Us every where start displaying hardcore porn periodically after the game has been installed for 30 days? Or, any of the other malicious things that can be done when a properly licensed game is ran legally on consoles? That would be on Nintendo. Nintendo simply cannot support these projects in any capacity, much less publish and support them. They would spend almost as much time combing through the game to certify and fix it than the would just making it themselves. It's just so silly to think they might do that.

You can ask anyone here that I'm not exactly a big fan of Nintendo, but this is different. Sony would shut down a fan-made Ratchet and Clank game. Microsoft would shut down a fan made Forza game. Nintendo is doing what any other company in their position would do. You can knock them all you want for shutting down let's plays and youtube videos. It's terrible that they do that. But there's a world of difference about making IP claims on Nintendo videos and shutting down Pokemon Uranium.

I disagree. And you have obviously missed the point of it all.


potato_hamster said:


Nintendo cannot and will not support fan projects. The simply can't do it. Your comparison to valve is a bit of a silly one. What valve-sanctioned mods (which, by the way is different than an independant release) have been published by valve and released on consoles? I'm almost positive the answer to that is 'none'. Supporting mods, and supporting independant releases that may or may not be built using engines that Nintendo develops and understands are two different things.



Those mods that ended up on consoles that you assume don't exist? Ever heard of Counterstrike?
Shall I name some more? ;)

Hows about Left 4 Dead? That started life also as a mod.

You have titles like The Stanley Parable as well, but they never went to console... And many games that weren't a Source mod but started out as Unreal Tournament/Quake mods.

potato_hamster said:

What if it turns out that buried deep in the code is a virus that infects the consoles the game are played on, and suddenly Wii Us every where start displaying hardcore porn periodically after the game has been installed for 30 days?
Or, any of the other malicious things that can be done when a properly licensed game is ran legally on consoles? That would be on Nintendo. Nintendo simply cannot support these projects in any capacity, much less publish and support them. They would spend almost as much time combing through the game to certify and fix it than the would just making it themselves. It's just so silly to think they might do that.


It's called "curation". - You obviously don't give anyone access to the underpinnings of your device... Microsoft and Sony sure haven't and they have fairly open development ecosystems.
This is just scaremongering.


potato_hamster said:

You can ask anyone here that I'm not exactly a big fan of Nintendo, but this is different. Sony would shut down a fan-made Ratchet and Clank game. Microsoft would shut down a fan made Forza game. Nintendo is doing what any other company in their position would do. You can knock them all you want for shutting down let's plays and youtube videos. It's terrible that they do that. But there's a world of difference about making IP claims on Nintendo videos and shutting down Pokemon Uranium.


If Microsoft and Sony did the exact same thing and started shutting down fan projects (They don't tend to do this)
I would also be giving them ridicule, if you hadn't noticed I am fairly vocal when it comes to all the consoles.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

If NX flops, the amount of money they have in the bank is irrelevant. It's the amount of new ideas that can make them relevant in hardware that's important.

The problem is, the number of competent executives that could turn Nintendo around in hardware is so small across the globe that Nintendo pretty much has to stick to the team they have. I think experience has shown that getting executives in competitor hardware companies to jump ship has a bad track rcord, so unless they are developing top executive experience from within there's not a lot to be done.

That's if NX is a flop. If NX is a success like Wii (for 4 years at least) and DS then there's nothing to worry about.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

This isn't a healthy way of thinking. While they might have plenty in the bank, investors will be scared that the company in general is still losing money and sell off stock. This alone can be enough to put Nintendo in real trouble. They have to maintain investor confidence.



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Pemalite said:
sethnintendo said:

Maybe Nintendo is trying to look after their IPs.  Should they be nice?  Just don't put your fan made shit on the net to share with everyone and they won't fuck with you.

Nintendo *should* look after it's Intellectual Property. But they could also do so without crapping on their fan base.
Remember these are some of Nintendo's biggest fans that they are attacking.

I get where you are coming from and it is a difficult thing to balance.  Perhaps they will change some of their practices but I still see them wanting to come down with an iron fist when they can.  Not sure what the best solution would be. 



Pemalite said:


It really depends.
I mean if you make a fan project and you host it on your own servers, then there is substantual costs involved and that should at the very least be covered with say... Advertising or donations.

I strongly disagree with this ... 

That just defeats the purpose of IP ownership. If anyone but the creator could be allowed to monetize IPs then there would be no need for copyright laws. Making a derivative work only to profit from it without the creator's permission is no different from stealing and that's just ethically bankrupt ... 

I have no problems sharing derivative works but charging for it without consent of the copyright holder is going too far ...



fatslob-:O said:
Pemalite said:


It really depends.
I mean if you make a fan project and you host it on your own servers, then there is substantual costs involved and that should at the very least be covered with say... Advertising or donations.

I strongly disagree with this ... 

That just defeats the purpose of IP ownership. If anyone but the creator could be allowed to monetize IPs then there would be no need for copyright laws. Making a derivative work only to profit from it without the creator's permission is no different from stealing and that's just ethically bankrupt ... 

I have no problems sharing derivative works but charging for it without consent of the copyright holder is going too far ...

In such an instance you wouldn't really be monetizing the IP's.
You are just putting adverts on the website to cover costs (Like with the hundreds of games Nintendo took action against), it's really not that much different from VGChartz having advertising and tons of Game Trailers/Box Art/Art littered through the forums/website.

The alternative is Nintendo could curate and host it themselves, remember the internet is larger than Nintendo, it's impossible for Nintendo to remove *everything* that infringes their I.P. (Metroid and Pokemon Uranium are still freely available for instance.)
So it makes sense to cut the Iron-fist crap.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

 

Pemalite said:

I disagree. And you have obviously missed the point of it all.

How is that obvious? Your expectations are unrealistic.

Pemalite said:

Those mods that ended up on consoles that you assume don't exist? Ever heard of Counterstrike?
Shall I name some more? ;)

Hows about Left 4 Dead? That started life also as a mod.

You have titles like The Stanley Parable as well, but they never went to console... And many games that weren't a Source mod but started out as Unreal Tournament/Quake mods.

Ohh Counterstrike, or Left 4 Dead. Great examples. So you think Valve took that mod as it was, and just released it all willy-nilly on consoles under their own brand? Because that's not what happened at all. In both of those cases, they pretty much re-wrote most of the game from scratch to build them to their standards, and went through a similar process to get them certified on consoles. It's almost like that's exactly what I said Nintendo would need to do for these fan projects...

Which they won't, because it requires almost as much effort as making your own first party games yourself. You're still not getting it, are you?

Pemalite said:

It's called "curation". - You obviously don't give anyone access to the underpinnings of your device... Microsoft and Sony sure haven't and they have fairly open development ecosystems.
This is just scaremongering.

Hey it's wonderful that you don't know what a game that's digitally signed has access to, but that's fine. Just a quick question. How do you think hackers and modders get custom firmware on consoles?  I promise you Sony, MS, and Nintendo don't want anyone to ever install their own OS on their platforms.  In fact Sony removed the ability to install Linux on the PS3 because there was a exploitable aspect to how that feature worked that they could not patch. Normally, these exploits involve convincing the operating system of that console that your code is either digitally signed, or part of a legitimate digitally signed program. It's probably because that opens up the hardware to do pretty much whatever you like with it, that's why they have a certification process to make sure that developers aren't actually doing things they're not allowed to do. So what makes you think that digitally signed games won't be able to do malicious things to your console? Please tell me what a new custom Operating System can do but malicious code cannot. I'm really curious.

Scaremongering? Hardly. In fact I guarantee that if Nintendo started a program such as thing, hackers/modders would be looking at ways to to put "a wolf in sheep's clothing" through the system. It would be incredibly easy to do if Nintendo isn't combing over the code to make sure it all checks out.

 

Pemalite said:


If Microsoft and Sony did the exact same thing and started shutting down fan projects (They don't tend to do this)
I would also be giving them ridicule, if you hadn't noticed I am fairly vocal when it comes to all the consoles.

Like how Microsoft shut down Halogen? Or how Sony/Activision shut down that fan-made Crash Bandicoot game? Or how Sega shut down that Streets of Rage fan game? Or Konami shut down that Metal Gear Solid remake? Or How Square Enix shut down that Chrono Trigger Fan project?

Literally everyone in the industry does this. Kinda odd that you're going after Nintendo when the main reason they shut down so many fan made games is because most notable fan made games that come to the surface feature Nintendo IPs.



Pemalite said:
fatslob-:O said:

I strongly disagree with this ... 

That just defeats the purpose of IP ownership. If anyone but the creator could be allowed to monetize IPs then there would be no need for copyright laws. Making a derivative work only to profit from it without the creator's permission is no different from stealing and that's just ethically bankrupt ... 

I have no problems sharing derivative works but charging for it without consent of the copyright holder is going too far ...

In such an instance you wouldn't really be monetizing the IP's.
You are just putting adverts on the website to cover costs (Like with the hundreds of games Nintendo took action against), it's really not that much different from VGChartz having advertising and tons of Game Trailers/Box Art/Art littered through the forums/website.

The alternative is Nintendo could curate and host it themselves, remember the internet is larger than Nintendo, it's impossible for Nintendo to remove *everything* that infringes their I.P. (Metroid and Pokemon Uranium are still freely available for instance.)
So it makes sense to cut the Iron-fist crap.

You really don't understand Intellectual Property rights if you think that taking in any type of income while using another company's IP isn't incredibly illegal. It doesn't matter if its only covering costs. It doesn't matter if you're only breaking even. It doesn't matter if you donate any extra money to make to charity. It's still illegal.

You have every right to disagree about whether or not it should be legal, but that doesn't change the reality that it is.