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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - MCV: NX Graphics In Between A PS3 And PS4

curl-6 on 06 August 2016
Soundwave said:
curl-6 said:

Regarding ports, getting PS4/X1 software up and running on Tegra X1 is a feat similar to getting it running on Wii U/PS3/360, so I don't really expect it'll get many ports from PS4/X1.

A portable would have several cheats it could employ though ... first and foremost those games on a portable screen will look just fine even at 960x540. 

That means they can run on the portable at 1/4th the pixels, which also means suddenly a 500 GFLOP GPU in portable mode probably would be able to run a lot of ports. 

Here's a Nvidia 730M laptop mobile GPU btw (550 GFLOPS) ... it can run PS4/XB1 only games like Assassin's Creed Unity at 720p even:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7o4l1NEoxs

I'll believe in when I see it. The assets and everything would all have to be reworked and I simply don't think devs will put that much effort in, especially on a Nintendo platform.



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Soundwave on 06 August 2016
curl-6 said:
Soundwave said:

A portable would have several cheats it could employ though ... first and foremost those games on a portable screen will look just fine even at 960x540. 

That means they can run on the portable at 1/4th the pixels, which also means suddenly a 500 GFLOP GPU in portable mode probably would be able to run a lot of ports. 

Here's a Nvidia 730M laptop mobile GPU btw (550 GFLOPS) ... it can run PS4/XB1 only games like Assassin's Creed Unity at 720p even:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7o4l1NEoxs

I'll believe in when I see it. The assets and everything would all have to be reworked and I simply don't think devs will put that much effort in, especially on a Nintendo platform.

Western devs probably not (hey it's up to them I should say), but Japanese devs? 

They will, especially if NX is the market leader in Japan, which I think is a fairly high probability. Pokemon + Splatoon + Mario + Mario Kart + Monster Hunter + Dragon Quest + Animal Crossing will push it past the PS4's userbase in Japan quickly, then other Japanese devs will want to cash in. 

The big difference now will be though unlike the DS/3DS, NX probably will be able to handle "real" versions of big gun Japanese IP. That means Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, etc. 



curl-6 on 06 August 2016
Soundwave said:
curl-6 said:

I'll believe in when I see it. The assets and everything would all have to be reworked and I simply don't think devs will put that much effort in, especially on a Nintendo platform.

Western devs probably not, but Japanese devs? 

They will, especially if NX is the market leader in Japan, which I think is a fairly high probability. Pokemon + Splatoon + Mario + Mario Kart + Monster Hunter + Dragon Quest will push it past the PS4 in Japan quickly, then other Japanese devs will want to cash in. 

Monster Hunter and Dragon Quest sure, NX may even be lead platform for those. But PS4 stuff like Final Fantasy XV, or FF7 Remake? If NX really is Tegra X1 powered, that's like trying to get FF13 running on the Vita.



niceguygameplayer on 06 August 2016

From what I gathered, the Wii U is a little weaker than the PS3. The NX may be a little stronger than PS3. That would keep costs down and still provide pretty good graphics.



Soundwave on 06 August 2016
curl-6 said:
Soundwave said:

Western devs probably not, but Japanese devs? 

They will, especially if NX is the market leader in Japan, which I think is a fairly high probability. Pokemon + Splatoon + Mario + Mario Kart + Monster Hunter + Dragon Quest will push it past the PS4 in Japan quickly, then other Japanese devs will want to cash in. 

Monster Hunter and Dragon Quest sure, NX may even be lead platform for those. But PS4 stuff like Final Fantasy XV, or FF7 Remake? If NX really is Tegra X1 powered, that's like trying to get FF13 running on the Vita.

Again at 960x540 makes a big difference, at that resolution a 500 GFLOP Tegra X1 even punches at the weight of a 2 TFLOP processor because it only has to render 1/4th the pixels of a console that has to do it at 1080p. 

A Vita is a 38 GFLOP machine, trying to get FF13 (from 250-300 GFLOP consoles) to run on it is a much bigger problem. If a Vita was 100-120 gigaflops, I think yeah maybe FF13 would be possible at 640x480 or something. 

Also I don't think Nintendo is using stock Tegra X1 either, they're probably using the Pascal successor to X1, which will be announced/shown this month by Nvidia (the Tegra X2 basically). 



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zorg1000 on 06 August 2016
curl-6 said:
zorg1000 said:

In term of Japanese games, most PS4 games are also released on Vita or PS3 still.

The big stuff like Final Fantasy XV, FF7 Remake, KH3, the ones actually made for PS4/X1, aren't coming to PS3 or Vita.

Those games make up a small percentage of Japanese PS4 games.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

fatslob-:O on 06 August 2016
Soundwave said:

Western devs probably not (hey it's up to them I should say), but Japanese devs? 

They will, especially if NX is the market leader in Japan, which I think is a fairly high probability. Pokemon + Splatoon + Mario + Mario Kart + Monster Hunter + Dragon Quest will push it past the PS4's userbase in Japan quickly, then other Japanese devs will want to cash in. 

The big difference now will be though unlike the DS/3DS, NX probably will be able to handle "real" versions of big gun Japanese IP. That means Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, etc. 

Your awfully optimistic about the NX ... 

Tegra X1 requires at least 10 watts to be fully powered and that TDP is not suited for a form factor of a small tablet, that's a form factor of a small laptop ... 

Futhermore, games are more than just pure compute as they require fixed function units like the rasterizer, texture samplers and if they these are severely scaled back the chances of the NX getting ports from the HD twins will be drastically reduced ...



Soundwave on 06 August 2016
fatslob-:O said:
Soundwave said:

Western devs probably not (hey it's up to them I should say), but Japanese devs? 

They will, especially if NX is the market leader in Japan, which I think is a fairly high probability. Pokemon + Splatoon + Mario + Mario Kart + Monster Hunter + Dragon Quest will push it past the PS4's userbase in Japan quickly, then other Japanese devs will want to cash in. 

The big difference now will be though unlike the DS/3DS, NX probably will be able to handle "real" versions of big gun Japanese IP. That means Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, etc. 

Your awfully optimistic about the NX ... 

Tegra X1 requires at least 10 watts to be fully powered and that TDP is not suited for a form factor of a small tablet, that's a form factor of a small laptop ... 

Futhermore, games are more than just pure compute as they require fixed function units like the rasterizer, texture samplers and if they these are severely scaled back the chances of the NX getting ports from the HD twins will be drastically reduced ...

It's not so much about being optimistic, it's about is this now becoming a possibility. I think the new Pascal-based Tegra X2 will bring this into the range of possibility if you are willing to accept a lower resolution like 960x540 for games with PS4/XB1 fidelity. 

I think Nintendo is going for this. If they weren't they'd just release another pocket sized portable, the NX is going for this larger form factor because they see this oppurtunity and I think they could not pass it up (the ability to unify the entire Japanese market ... the DS/3DS should have had all the top Japanese games but they didn't because the hardware wouldn't allow it). 

If you have a system with all Nintendo games on it and all the top Japanese games on it and maybe even Android games on it too ... Western games is almost like a "whatever" gravy, it's just a bonus whatever you can get there. 



curl-6 on 06 August 2016
Soundwave said:
curl-6 said:

Monster Hunter and Dragon Quest sure, NX may even be lead platform for those. But PS4 stuff like Final Fantasy XV, or FF7 Remake? If NX really is Tegra X1 powered, that's like trying to get FF13 running on the Vita.

Again at 960x540 makes a big difference, at that resolution a 500 GFLOP Tegra X1 even punches at the weight of a 2 TFLOP processor because it only has to render 1/4th the pixels of a console that has to do it at 1080p. 

A Vita is a 38 GFLOP machine, trying to get FF13 (from 250-300 GFLOP consoles) to run on it is a much bigger problem. If a Vita was 100-120 gigaflops, I think yeah maybe FF13 would be possible at 640x480 or something. 

Also I don't think Nintendo is using stock Tegra X1 either, they're probably using the Pascal successor to X1, which will be announced/shown this month by Nvidia (the Tegra X2 basically). 

540p isn't a get out of jail free card, it won't allow PS4 graphics on a handheld. Downgrades would still have to be made to textures, shaders, effects, geometry, etc.

You simply can't run FFXV on a portable in 2017, even at 540p, the technology just isn't there yet.

 

zorg1000 said:
curl-6 said:

The big stuff like Final Fantasy XV, FF7 Remake, KH3, the ones actually made for PS4/X1, aren't coming to PS3 or Vita.

Those games make up a small percentage of Japanese PS4 games.

They're some of the most important though. FFXV, FF7R and KH3 are orders of magnitude more important than pretty much any of the multiplats Vita/PS3 get. They get the second-rate stuff like Star Ocean.



Soundwave on 06 August 2016
curl-6 said:
Soundwave said:

Again at 960x540 makes a big difference, at that resolution a 500 GFLOP Tegra X1 even punches at the weight of a 2 TFLOP processor because it only has to render 1/4th the pixels of a console that has to do it at 1080p. 

A Vita is a 38 GFLOP machine, trying to get FF13 (from 250-300 GFLOP consoles) to run on it is a much bigger problem. If a Vita was 100-120 gigaflops, I think yeah maybe FF13 would be possible at 640x480 or something. 

Also I don't think Nintendo is using stock Tegra X1 either, they're probably using the Pascal successor to X1, which will be announced/shown this month by Nvidia (the Tegra X2 basically). 

540p isn't a get out of jail free card, it won't allow PS4 graphics on a handheld. Downgrades would still have to be made to textures, shaders, effects, geometry, etc.

You simply can't run FFXV on a portable in 2017, even at 540p, the technology just isn't there yet.

 

zorg1000 said:

Those games make up a small percentage of Japanese PS4 games.

They're some of the most important though. FFXV, FF7R and KH3 are orders of magnitude more important than pretty much any of the multiplats Vita/PS3 get. They get the second-rate stuff like Star Ocean.

We don't know. I just showed a mobile Nvidia processor ... albiet a laptop one that's only 550 GFLOPS running PS4/XB1 only games at 720p no less. 

Can the Pascal Nvidia Tegra X2 (16nm) match the Nvidia 730M (28nm) from Jan 2013? I'm thinking it probably can. Not only is the power envelope closing but the architectural advances will be huge too.