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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Gaming's worst marketing/business decisions?

SpokenTruth said:
Miyamotoo said:

Not to mentione that PS2 also like PS3 sold at loose, while GC was profatible even with $100 price.

It's not well known but GC was sold at a ~$9 loss for quite a while.  How long is not known though.

Maybe at launch, but I found info that PS2 was sold $188 loss on launch.



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SpokenTruth said:
Miyamotoo said:

RE2 is only bigger PS1 game that was ported to N64, and there is good reason for that.

You could fit some of PS1 games on N64, but not only developers would need to cut lots a thing from PS1 version of games but scaling some PS1 game from few hundreds MB to only 64MB was very complicated, expensive and requires lots a time, so huge majority of devolpers refues to do that becuse they thought it wasnt profitable. So like I wrote, reason why N64 had bad 3rd party suport and actualy is Nintendo console with smallest number of relased games (ask yourself why that is case when N64 isnt nearly worst selling Nintendo console), is very obvious very small size of N64 catriidges (max 64MB) for 3rd partys that were relased games on CD.

Don't move the goal post.  You said they couldn't be done.  Now you're saying it could but is difficult or costly.

Your final point may be valid but you should be clear when making it the first time. 

My main point with this all talk is that N64 cartridge format instead of CD is reason why N64 had such a bad support and why N64 actually is Nintendo console with smallest number of released games. That is very obvious.

I agree that not only size of N64 cartridges was problem but also cost of cartridges itself compared to CD.



Nintendo leaving Sony at the altar is bar none the worst decision. Sure it gave consumers the PlayStation brand, but it screwed over Nintendo for all-time. The PS1 beat the N64 quite handily in sales, The PS2 is the highest-selling platform of all-time, The PS3 struggled but has managed to stay relevant longer than the Wii, and the PS4 is comfortably in the lead right now. The PSP also managed to be a viable rival in the handheld market, even if it only sold about 55% of the amount the DS sold.
Honorable mentions
Sega releasing the Saturn prematurely in the west
The Wii U's name, tablet controller, and extreme lack of marketing
The Xbox One reveal and Don Mattrick's comments
599 US Dollars and the expensive architecture of the PS3
Atari claiming the Jaguar to be 64-bit when its visuals and games failed to impress. This console ultimately led to their downfall.



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 161 million (was 73 million, then 96 million, then 113 million, then 125 million, then 144 million, then 151 million, then 156 million)

PS5: 115 million (was 105 million) Xbox Series S/X: 48 million (was 60 million, then 67 million, then 57 million)

PS4: 120 mil (was 100 then 130 million, then 122 million) Xbox One: 51 mil (was 50 then 55 mil)

3DS: 75.5 mil (was 73, then 77 million)

"Let go your earthly tether, enter the void, empty and become wind." - Guru Laghima

Miyamotoo said:
DonFerrari said:

Sony tried Playstation Phones with no luck, but that could be because of implementation

I refuse because you have 0 evidence... you are giving conjectures. GC was always cheaper than PS2 because Nintendo was trying to sell it against a market leader with very strong grip on the market. And the drive wasn't 100,00 I'm sure.

Yes it wouldn't be easy to fit. But RE2 with 2 CDs fitting on one N64 cartridge is proof enough that it was doable. It just wasn't cost effective because sales weren't there to be captured.

Wii even though sold more than PS360 had very bad SW sales overall and only sold 1st party. And being Wii the only case of a console that sold a lot even with negible 3rd party support (and not to gamers in general, as you can see the plummet on WiiU) isn't evidence that you can succeed with no multiplats so it can't be taken of their worse decisions.

Nintendo sold much stronger GC with profit with lower price of $100 than PS2 that actualy was sold with loose. Like I wrote, I remember back then DVD player prety high price and with PS2 you had console with built in DVD playyer, that definatly had huge imapact on PS2 price, very posible for around $100.

Yes RE2 fit, and it was nightmare for devolpers, why is RE2 basicly only stronger PS1 game that ended on N64!? Becuse it wasn't profitable, it was very complicated, expensive and requires lots a time becuse very small size of cartridges, not beacuse N64 sales. You totally ignoring fact that GC had around 50% worse sales than N64 while GC had much better 3rd party support!? Like I wrote, why N64 is Nintendo console with smallest number of released games ever when isn't nearly worst selling Nintendo console!? It's very obvious that is because of very limited size of N64 cartridges, but you can keep deny that.

Sry, but in what world 915m sold copies of SW on 101m HW is bad, that is attach rate of 9, do you realise that only GC had better attach rate with 9.5!?

Wii is clear fact that Nintendo could succeed even with bad developer relationships, offcourse that is better that Nintendo have great developers relationships, but this is a clear fact.

Man, you keep throwing the same number and that is pointless... A Ferrari selling for 500k against a Polo for 15k doesn't in any way means that the Ferrari costed 499k to build against a 14k to build the Polo. The fact that DVD players were very expensive can be attached to a lot of reasons not necessarily the drive itself. You know that PS3 emulation with the emotion engine was one of the reasons for the high price (and that after 7 years of cost reducion on the processor due to the big success of PS2). So the exquisite architeture of PS2 could be more of a reason to the high price of PS2 than the drive could ever hope to. You also failed to give any pricing for the GC drive against PS2 to say it really was much cheaper. So I'll stand by that Nintendo done the choice for mini-disc because they though piracy would be lesser and that they didn't see any need for 8Gb of space (you could even say that it was basically the same reason for them choosing cartdrige on N64).

So on the cartridge we can resume all that in, it's possible but costly, so with bad relationship and bad sales, costier port no interest was present.

if you consider that it's actually 8 (because 1 game was auto bundled forever and latter there were 2 or more) so GC having 9,5 is 18,75% higher, that is significant. And considering how most sales were for 1st party titles that won't help your argument that Wii was a success, even more when the successor plummet 86% on HW sales and the system were abandoned with 1 to 2 years before the next system entered. I can hardly say that is a true success. You can at most say that while Nintendo was supporting it, they made a lot of money, but you can't say it was a real success as a CONSOLE.

So you can take 1 in 8 attempts to prove a point as a fact while ignoring the 7 against, great.

Miyamotoo said:
SpokenTruth said:

It's not well known but GC was sold at a ~$9 loss for quite a while.  How long is not known though.

Maybe at launch, but I found info that PS2 was sold $188 loss on launch.

Please provide the evidence.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
Miyamotoo said:

Nintendo sold much stronger GC with profit with lower price of $100 than PS2 that actualy was sold with loose. Like I wrote, I remember back then DVD player prety high price and with PS2 you had console with built in DVD playyer, that definatly had huge imapact on PS2 price, very posible for around $100.

Yes RE2 fit, and it was nightmare for devolpers, why is RE2 basicly only stronger PS1 game that ended on N64!? Becuse it wasn't profitable, it was very complicated, expensive and requires lots a time becuse very small size of cartridges, not beacuse N64 sales. You totally ignoring fact that GC had around 50% worse sales than N64 while GC had much better 3rd party support!? Like I wrote, why N64 is Nintendo console with smallest number of released games ever when isn't nearly worst selling Nintendo console!? It's very obvious that is because of very limited size of N64 cartridges, but you can keep deny that.

Sry, but in what world 915m sold copies of SW on 101m HW is bad, that is attach rate of 9, do you realise that only GC had better attach rate with 9.5!?

Wii is clear fact that Nintendo could succeed even with bad developer relationships, offcourse that is better that Nintendo have great developers relationships, but this is a clear fact.

Man, you keep throwing the same number and that is pointless... A Ferrari selling for 500k against a Polo for 15k doesn't in any way means that the Ferrari costed 499k to build against a 14k to build the Polo. The fact that DVD players were very expensive can be attached to a lot of reasons not necessarily the drive itself. You know that PS3 emulation with the emotion engine was one of the reasons for the high price (and that after 7 years of cost reducion on the processor due to the big success of PS2). So the exquisite architeture of PS2 could be more of a reason to the high price of PS2 than the drive could ever hope to. You also failed to give any pricing for the GC drive against PS2 to say it really was much cheaper. So I'll stand by that Nintendo done the choice for mini-disc because they though piracy would be lesser and that they didn't see any need for 8Gb of space (you could even say that it was basically the same reason for them choosing cartdrige on N64).

So on the cartridge we can resume all that in, it's possible but costly, so with bad relationship and bad sales, costier port no interest was present.

if you consider that it's actually 8 (because 1 game was auto bundled forever and latter there were 2 or more) so GC having 9,5 is 18,75% higher, that is significant. And considering how most sales were for 1st party titles that won't help your argument that Wii was a success, even more when the successor plummet 86% on HW sales and the system were abandoned with 1 to 2 years before the next system entered. I can hardly say that is a true success. You can at most say that while Nintendo was supporting it, they made a lot of money, but you can't say it was a real success as a CONSOLE.

So you can take 1 in 8 attempts to prove a point as a fact while ignoring the 7 against, great.

Miyamotoo said:

Maybe at launch, but I found info that PS2 was sold $188 loss on launch.

Please provide the evidence.

I will not talk any more about GC, clear fact is that GC was more powerful than PS2 and had lower price for $100, and only huge difference was DVD player in PS2. Do the math.

No, all comes to cartridge format, not to bad relationship. 3rd party wouldn't make games for N64 even if they ideal relationship because it was profitable, like I wrote, some game wouldn't fit at all, for other games it was very complicated, expensive and requires lots a time because very small size of cartridges, and huge cost of N64 cartridges. But you can still deny that.

Even 8 games is pretty good atach rate, and actually best atach rate after GC had and on pair with NES, so  saying that "Wii had very bad SW sales" is pure nonsense. Fact that most of Wii sold game are 1st party games means Nintendo made more money then they would with 3rd party games. Offcourse that more that 100m units of HW and more than 900m units of SW are huge succes, and actualy far biggest Nintendo sucess in console space, also clear fact. They made bilons of profit from Wii.



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Miyamotoo said:
DonFerrari said:

Man, you keep throwing the same number and that is pointless... A Ferrari selling for 500k against a Polo for 15k doesn't in any way means that the Ferrari costed 499k to build against a 14k to build the Polo. The fact that DVD players were very expensive can be attached to a lot of reasons not necessarily the drive itself. You know that PS3 emulation with the emotion engine was one of the reasons for the high price (and that after 7 years of cost reducion on the processor due to the big success of PS2). So the exquisite architeture of PS2 could be more of a reason to the high price of PS2 than the drive could ever hope to. You also failed to give any pricing for the GC drive against PS2 to say it really was much cheaper. So I'll stand by that Nintendo done the choice for mini-disc because they though piracy would be lesser and that they didn't see any need for 8Gb of space (you could even say that it was basically the same reason for them choosing cartdrige on N64).

So on the cartridge we can resume all that in, it's possible but costly, so with bad relationship and bad sales, costier port no interest was present.

if you consider that it's actually 8 (because 1 game was auto bundled forever and latter there were 2 or more) so GC having 9,5 is 18,75% higher, that is significant. And considering how most sales were for 1st party titles that won't help your argument that Wii was a success, even more when the successor plummet 86% on HW sales and the system were abandoned with 1 to 2 years before the next system entered. I can hardly say that is a true success. You can at most say that while Nintendo was supporting it, they made a lot of money, but you can't say it was a real success as a CONSOLE.

So you can take 1 in 8 attempts to prove a point as a fact while ignoring the 7 against, great.

Please provide the evidence.

I will not talk any more about GC, clear fact is that GC was more powerful than PS2 and had lower price for $100, and only huge difference was DVD player in PS2. Do the math.

No, all comes to cartridge format, not to bad relationship. 3rd party wouldn't make games for N64 even if they ideal relationship because it was profitable, like I wrote, some game wouldn't fit at all, for other games it was very complicated, expensive and requires lots a time because very small size of cartridges, and huge cost of N64 cartridges. But you can still deny that.

Even 8 games is pretty good atach rate, and actually best atach rate after GC had and on pair with NES, so  saying that "Wii had very bad SW sales" is pure nonsense. Fact that most of Wii sold game are 1st party games means Nintendo made more money then they would with 3rd party games. Offcourse that more that 100m units of HW and more than 900m units of SW are huge succes, and actualy far biggest Nintendo sucess in console space, also clear fact. They made bilons of profit from Wii.

Ok, you win.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:

...

The fact that you can't read a DVD movie on it doesn't make the drive itself much cheaper I suppose (and you are just throwing a conjecture, not an evidence) and I told you that the royalties weren't big so I'll give you the very high royalty prices

DVD-ROM Drive The greater of:
(ⅰ) 4% of the net selling price (up to a maximum of US$8.00 per drive) or
(ⅱ) US$4.00 per drive;
US$2.00 per drive on or after the effective date of the New DVD6C License Agreement

 

That info is "As of January 1, 2016" the royalty scheme may or may not have been higher in 2000 (PS2) or in 2001 (Gamecube/Xbox).

Even now the greater of the two is still $8 US per console, that's no small addition to the price of the console.  A lot of people forget that DVD movie playback was NOT included in the original Xbox out of the box either.  You needed to buy a $30 dongle to unlock the DVD movie playback on the original Xbox.

Microsoft was a company with unlimited resources and spared no expense when it came to the original Xbox hardware, but they still didn't want to eat the fee for DVD movie playback.



Intrinsic said:
Mr_No said:

Not that I'm refuting your facts, but what were those draconian approaches towards third-party games Nintendo used to have back with the NES and the SNES?

After the NES era, nintendo were at the top of their game and third party support was booming. Then in the SNES era, at a time when third parties were most dependent on nintendo, nintendo introduced the highest royalties programme ever. Not just making third parties pay royalties for game, but on dev kits and every catridge made. And nintendo had a rigorous QA programme it put them through too. Back then, third parties felt like they were being extorted but nintendo was the king of the hill and called all the shots.

Where'd you get this from?



foxtail said:
DonFerrari said:

...

The fact that you can't read a DVD movie on it doesn't make the drive itself much cheaper I suppose (and you are just throwing a conjecture, not an evidence) and I told you that the royalties weren't big so I'll give you the very high royalty prices

DVD-ROM Drive The greater of:
(ⅰ) 4% of the net selling price (up to a maximum of US$8.00 per drive) or
(ⅱ) US$4.00 per drive;
US$2.00 per drive on or after the effective date of the New DVD6C License Agreement

 

That info is "As of January 1, 2016" the royalty scheme may or may not have been higher in 2000 (PS2) or in 2001 (Gamecube/Xbox).

Even now the greater of the two is still $8 US per console, that's no small addition to the price of the console.  A lot of people forget that DVD movie playback was NOT included in the original Xbox out of the box either.  You needed to buy a $30 dongle to unlock the DVD movie playback on the original Xbox.

Microsoft was a company with unlimited resources and spared no expense when it came to the original Xbox hardware, but they still didn't want to eat the fee for DVD movie playback.

The info was updated on January 1st... if you look at the Disc itself you will have the historical price going from 7,5c to 4c and lower... so for me it reads as the table you answered was valid at the time.

And no it isn't 8 per console... it's NO MORE than 8 USD, relative to 4% of the selling price of the drive.

So Sorry, but saying that Nintendo didn't put a DVD drive because of 4-8 extra cost on royalty is a silly reason by their part.

I'm not forgeting that DVD playback wasn't available (and I never used PS2 DVD playback function). We were talking about the cost to have a standard drive that would have a disc with a 8Gb capacity (could even be a different reading technique if it didn't made the production cost higher on either the HW or discs)



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

KLAMarine said:
Intrinsic said:

After the NES era, nintendo were at the top of their game and third party support was booming. Then in the SNES era, at a time when third parties were most dependent on nintendo, nintendo introduced the highest royalties programme ever. Not just making third parties pay royalties for game, but on dev kits and every catridge made. And nintendo had a rigorous QA programme it put them through too. Back then, third parties felt like they were being extorted but nintendo was the king of the hill and called all the shots.

Where'd you get this from?

Get that from? well i was alibe back then and was in my teens when most of all that was happenning. Thpugh then we made our stories up from mags but in time thede things all came out. Feel free to look up hisyory of nintendo and ypu will see it wll for youreelf too.