Soundwave said:
Nuvendil said:
You are severely underestimating the skill of teams from the mid to late sixties and the differences of the rules. There was no 3 point line to spread the floor, looser officiating (FAR LOOSER), no flagrant fouls, far stricter carrying calls. The game was radically different. Players from that era were extraordinarily athletic, incredibly tough, and had extraordinary endurance cause that's what the league demanded. That's what the league created. I'm not saying they wouldn't be a good team, but the Lakers and Celtics and 76ers (from 67 with Wilt) would give them a lot of real trouble. The centers of that era were exceptionally strong and athletic, capable of guarding the paint from numerous threats. And fewer teams means the tallent was compressed. It would be a huge adjustment to take the 96 bulls and fling them into 67 basketball.
Not saying they wouldn't be a great team, but it would take a LOT of adjustments to reach that 72 and 10 dominance
|
And half the teams in the league had rosters with a bunch of 6-3 white dudes. Any good post-ABA 80s/90s/2000s team would wreck the the NBA in the 60s.
The 60s deserves respect for setting the foundation for proper basketball, but as far as being able to match up with modern teams, they'd get slaughtered. The weakest player on a modern would be decent/good back then because the pool of competetive players is so much better today so is the development of players, Bill Russell didn't even start playing until he was 13 and they didn't even have a proper basketball hoop in his neighborhood.
|
Oh yeah, nothing but 6'3" white boys in the mid to late 60s. Nevermind Bill Russel and Wilt Chamberlain, two of the greatest at their postition whose athleticism was legendary for decades after they retired. Nevermind Willis Reed, a hall of fame center everyone respects. Nevermind Nate Thurmond, another Hall of Fame center whose athleticism and extraordinary defensive tallent made him the only player besides Bill Russel that Wilt Chamberlain feared. Wilt Chamberlain, who was a 7'1" 275 lb monster with a 48" vertical and could bench 500lb, who averaged over 50 points in a season, averaged more minutes one season than there are in a game (good luck finding ANY 90s center who could do that), and once lead the league in assists just to show off that he could.
Nevermind Bob Petit, another Hall of Fame big man, who is legendary in his position with extraordinary athleticism and strength, strong on deffense and dominant on offense and still a force in 65.
Nevermind Walt Bellamy, ANOTHER Hall of Fame center who was an exceptional player on both ends who only missed out on MVP chances primarily cause he shared a league with players like Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, and Oscar Robertson. Oscar Robertson, who averaged a tripple double for a season, whose first FIVE seasons strung together are a tripple double, who is regarded by 99% of analysts as the greatest pointguard ever and the first great oversized guard.
Oh, and nevermind Jerry Lucas, who despite being undersized to every other center/power forward listed above (he's in the hall of fame too, btw) still managed to get 7 all stars, an all star game MVP, 3 all NBA first teams and 2 all NBA second teams right smack in some of the best years of the other centers I mentioned. He was also one of the best rebounders and most efficient scorers despite the inevitably stiff defense.
And those are just the hall of famers, sans Wayne Embry, nevermind all the others who were just kicking around in their shadows.
And of course, all of that except Oscar is just centeres and/or big men. And only hall of famers, nevermind players like LeRoy Ellis - a 6'11" center - or Luke Jackson - a 6'9" power forward - who were perfectly competent filler comparable to the filler players that are in every era, including the 90s, and who further trash the "all the centeres were undersized 6'5" white boys" nonsense.
You're also discounting guards like Jerry West, who despite being undersized for his position at the time (yes, he was undersized) and built more for todays league (he had a 3 point shot before the 3 point shot was a thing) and sharing the primary scoring position evenly with Elgin freaking Baylor manages to have the 4th highest PPG average and be the second best overall shooting guard statistically in NBA history, capable of sharpshooting or driving the paint with incredible athleticism and is a player who sits squarely on the short list of players snubbed in terms of NBA MVP awards. West, whose penultimate game includes 44 points (16 of 17 shots from the field, 12 of 12 free throw attempts) with 12 rebounds, 12 assists and (unofficially counted) 10 blocked shots. Whose insane finals performance in 69 got him the MVP on the losing team.
Nevermind Baylor, another player on the short list of most snubbed players when it comes to the MVP award, who holds the 3 highest PPG average, whose athleticism, speed, strength, and moves made him a force and was frankly showtime before Magic Johnson ever came to the Lakers.
Nevermind Hal Greer, another star guard (hall of fame, btw) who helped Wilt be the only player ever to defeat Bill Russel in the finals.
Nevermind Sam Jones, another hall of famer shooting guard who was key in the absurd Bill Russell dynasty. Whose averages are stunted primarily by being on a team of stars where spreading the scoring was key.
Speaking of that star studded team, let's not forget the other hall of famers on that team. Like Bailey Howell, a hall of fame Small Forward. Or John Havilicek, the leader in total points by a Celtic who the Celtics in the 60s regularly had coming off the gosh darn bench. And of course, I'm not counting minor Hall of Famers like K.C Jones, Don Nelson, Tom Sanders.
But let's move beyond that team and look at some others. Like Gus Johnson from the Bullets, a hall of fame forward who, again, had some strong stats when considering the people listed above (like Wilt, who dislocated Gus's dang shoulder on a clean block through sheer force) he went against for all that and was known for being exceptionally strong and quick and could jump out the roof. Or Earl Monroe who came in in 67 for the Bullets and is a hall of fame guard.
Or how about those 76ers with Billy Cunningham, a small forward/power forward combo in the hall of fame. Or Chet Walker, another small forward in the hall of fame. Yep, nothing but 6'3" white boys here either.
I could go on and on, pointing out all the little problems with your statement. But let me just say it outright: the mid to late 60s were very different but they had the make up of modern basketball and a slew of powerful athletes. It was not a league of 6'3" white booys and 6'6" white centeres who got beat up by a tiny number of super stars. Every team had a hall of fame player, several had multiples. The average height of centers in this period was 6'10", which is why Walter Dukes (7'1"), Swede Halbrook (7'3"), and Mel Counts (7'0") aren't in the Hall of Fame and didn't get crazy stats. They weren't all that weird, they were standard competition. And guards ran the gambit from 6'2" to 6'5", small forwards were in line with what we see today. Many of the players of that era would have found success later in the leage. Shoot, some did. Havlicek went on to lead the Celtics to two more rings in the mid seventies long after the Russell era. Players played extremely hard and physical with no flagrant fouls and loose officiating.
The fact is you pay lip service to respect for the 60s but all I see is disrespect from you and others who don't know their sports history worth a crap. The mid to late 60s were not the 50s, the days of Mikan dominating the game through sheer height were long gone. It was an athletic game, a rough game, and filled with tallent condensed into a meer 10 teams in 66-67 and only expanding to 14 in 68-69. Meaning all these Hall of Famers and competent fillers were compressed into those teams and you had to face the likes of Russel, Wilt, Thurmond, West, Baylor, and Havlicek far more often than you would have to play Jordan in 95 or Lebron in 2015. You couldn't pad your win record with canon fodder teams, there were only like two maybe three in the league at a time.
In short, get your facts right. The 6'3 white boy with 6'6 center myth is old and has always been wrong.
Edit: And if you don't see how the 3 point line was the single most drastic change to the NBA post-50s, I don't know what you are thinking. It changed everything. In the 60s you could colapse on a guy like Jordan with extreme force and numbers because kicking it out to the outside was just kicking out to a lower percentage 2. With a 3, you HAVE to stay further out, it is required. The 3 changed the game in an exceptional way and made life for driving shooting guards a LOT easier.
Edit2: Also, average player height in 65 to 69 was 6'6" and the average weight was ~206 pounds. That's 1 inch shorter and 7 pounds lighter than the mid 90s, a negligible difference. Don't believe me, check here http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats.html
Edit3: I won't argue against those players being good (the ones you edited in) in that era, they would be. But they wouldn't "wreck that era". Shaq being the absolute easiest one to say soundly he wouldn't. Wilt was faster, stronger, with more endurance and better midrange game and pound for pound plain better and how many rings does he have from that era? 1.
