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Chris Hu said:
KLAMarine said:
What a season. 73-9 still breaks 72-10 record regardless in my book.

Nope, the 95-96 Bulls team is miles better and the NBA was a lot better then it is now.  You also had the team with the most losses this season since the 76ers lost 72.  I totally agree with what Pippen said a couple of month ago that Bulls team would sweep this years Warriors team in a seven game series.

The '96 Bulls had the advantage of playing TWO expansion teams that year and shared a division with one of them (and lost a game to that one, the Raptors).

I wish someone who says the NBA was a lot better then than it is now would explain to me in a quantifiable or factual sense.



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Well since Lebron and the Cavs broke the curse of Cleveland. I wonder if the Chicago Cubs can break their 100+ years curse in the MLB. Lol!



burninmylight said:
Chris Hu said:

Nope, the 95-96 Bulls team is miles better and the NBA was a lot better then it is now.  You also had the team with the most losses this season since the 76ers lost 72.  I totally agree with what Pippen said a couple of month ago that Bulls team would sweep this years Warriors team in a seven game series.

The '96 Bulls had the advantage of playing TWO expansion teams that year and shared a division with one of them (and lost a game to that one, the Raptors).

I wish someone who says the NBA was a lot better then than it is now would explain to me in a quantifiable or factual sense.

Those two expansion teams where still better then this years 76ers and Lakers.  Also the Warriors lost to the Lakers in the regular season and since it happened late in the season it was the biggest differential in total wins by a team with a losing record beating a team with a winning record.  The '96 Raptors where actually a lot better then both the 76ers and Lakers they had the rookie of the year Damon Stoudamire.



Soundwave said:
Nuvendil said:

Oh yeah, nothing but 6'3" white boys in the mid to late 60s.  Nevermind Bill Russel and Wilt Chamberlain, two of the greatest at their postition whose athleticism was legendary for decades after they retired.  Nevermind Willis Reed, a hall of fame center everyone respects.  Nevermind Nate Thurmond, another Hall of Fame center whose athleticism and extraordinary defensive tallent made him the only player besides Bill Russel that Wilt Chamberlain feared.  Wilt Chamberlain, who was a 7'1" 275 lb monster with a 48" vertical and could bench 500lb, who averaged over 50 points in a season, averaged more minutes one season than there are in a game (good luck finding ANY 90s center who could do that), and once lead the league in assists just to show off that he could.  

Nevermind Bob Petit, another Hall of Fame big man, who is legendary in his position with extraordinary athleticism and strength, strong on deffense and dominant on offense and still a force in 65. 

Nevermind Walt Bellamy,  ANOTHER Hall of Fame center who was an exceptional player on both ends who only missed out on MVP chances primarily cause he shared a league with players like Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, and Oscar Robertson.  Oscar Robertson, who averaged a tripple double for a season, whose first FIVE seasons strung together are a tripple double, who is regarded by 99% of analysts as the greatest pointguard ever and the first great oversized guard. 

Oh, and nevermind Jerry Lucas, who despite being undersized to every other center/power forward listed above (he's in the hall of fame too, btw) still managed to get 7 all stars, an all star game MVP, 3 all NBA first teams and 2 all NBA second teams right smack in some of the best years of the other centers I mentioned.  He was also one of the best rebounders and most efficient scorers despite the inevitably stiff defense.

And those are just the hall of famers, sans Wayne Embry, nevermind all the others who were just kicking around in their shadows. 

And of course, all of that except Oscar is just centeres and/or big men.  And only hall of famers, nevermind players like LeRoy Ellis - a 6'11" center - or Luke Jackson - a 6'9" power forward - who were perfectly competent filler comparable to the filler players that are in every era, including the 90s, and who further trash the "all the centeres were undersized 6'5" white boys" nonsense. 

You're also discounting guards like Jerry West, who despite being undersized for his position at the time (yes, he was undersized) and built more for todays league (he had a 3 point shot before the 3 point shot was a thing) and sharing the primary scoring position evenly with Elgin freaking Baylor manages to have the 4th highest PPG average and be the second best overall shooting guard statistically in NBA history, capable of sharpshooting or driving the paint with incredible athleticism and is a player who sits squarely on the short list of players snubbed in terms of NBA MVP awards.  West, whose penultimate game includes 44 points (16 of 17 shots from the field, 12 of 12 free throw attempts) with 12 rebounds, 12 assists and (unofficially counted) 10 blocked shots.  Whose insane finals performance in 69 got him the MVP on the losing team. 

Nevermind Baylor, another player on the short list of most snubbed players when it comes to the MVP award, who holds the 3 highest PPG average, whose athleticism, speed, strength, and moves made him a force and was frankly showtime before Magic Johnson ever came to the Lakers.

Nevermind Hal Greer, another star guard (hall of fame, btw) who helped Wilt be the only player ever to defeat Bill Russel in the finals. 

Nevermind Sam Jones, another hall of famer shooting guard who was key in the absurd Bill Russell dynasty.  Whose averages are stunted primarily by being on a team of stars where spreading the scoring was key.

Speaking of that star studded team, let's not forget the other hall of famers on that team.  Like Bailey Howell, a hall of fame Small Forward.  Or John Havilicek, the leader in total points by a Celtic who the Celtics in the 60s regularly had coming off the gosh darn bench.  And of course, I'm not counting minor Hall of Famers like K.C Jones, Don Nelson, Tom Sanders.

But let's move beyond that team and look at some others.  Like Gus Johnson from the Bullets, a hall of fame forward who, again, had some strong stats when considering the people listed above (like Wilt, who dislocated Gus's dang shoulder on a clean block through sheer force) he went against for all that and was known for being exceptionally strong and quick and could jump out the roof.  Or Earl Monroe who came in in 67 for the Bullets and is a hall of fame guard. 

Or how about those 76ers with Billy Cunningham, a small forward/power forward combo in the hall of fame.  Or Chet Walker, another small forward in the hall of fame.  Yep, nothing but 6'3" white boys here either.

I could go on and on, pointing out all the little problems with your statement.  But let me just say it outright:  the mid to late 60s were very different but they had the make up of modern basketball and a slew of powerful athletes.  It was not a league of 6'3" white booys and 6'6" white centeres who got beat up by a tiny number of super stars.  Every team had a hall of fame player, several had multiples.  The average height of centers in this period was 6'10", which is why Walter Dukes (7'1"), Swede Halbrook (7'3"), and Mel Counts (7'0") aren't in the Hall of Fame and didn't get crazy stats.  They weren't all that weird, they were standard competition.  And guards ran the gambit from 6'2" to 6'5", small forwards were in line with what we see today.  Many of the players of that era would have found success later in the leage.  Shoot, some did.  Havlicek went on to lead the Celtics to two more rings in the mid seventies long after the Russell era.  Players played extremely hard and physical with no flagrant fouls and loose officiating. 

The fact is you pay lip service to respect for the 60s but all I see is disrespect from you and others who don't know their sports history worth a crap.  The mid to late 60s were not the 50s, the days of Mikan dominating the game through sheer height were long gone.  It was an athletic game, a rough game, and filled with tallent condensed into a meer 10 teams in 66-67 and only expanding to 14 in 68-69.  Meaning all these Hall of Famers and competent fillers were compressed into those teams and you had to face the likes of Russel, Wilt, Thurmond, West, Baylor, and Havlicek far more often than you would have to play Jordan in 95 or Lebron in 2015.  You couldn't pad your win record with canon fodder teams, there were only like two maybe three in the league at a time.   

In short, get your facts right.  The 6'3 white boy with 6'6 center myth is old and has always been wrong. 

Edit: And if you don't see how the 3 point line was the single most drastic change to the NBA post-50s, I don't know what you are thinking. It changed everything. In the 60s you could colapse on a guy like Jordan with extreme force and numbers because kicking it out to the outside was just kicking out to a lower percentage 2. With a 3, you HAVE to stay further out, it is required. The 3 changed the game in an exceptional way and made life for driving shooting guards a LOT easier.

Edit2:  Also, average player height in 65 to 69 was 6'6" and the average weight was ~206 pounds.  That's 1 inch shorter and 7 pounds lighter than the mid 90s, a negligible difference. Don't believe me, check here http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats.html

Edit3:  I won't argue against those players being good (the ones you edited in) in that era, they would be.  But they wouldn't "wreck that era".  Shaq being the absolute easiest one to say soundly he wouldn't.  Wilt was faster, stronger, with more endurance and better midrange game and pound for pound plain better and how many rings does he have from that era?  1. 

There's only like two 7 footers in the entire league in 1968. 

The game was undeveloped at that point, Wilt and Russell seemed superhuman in that era because they were like basically the first players to be big and athletic. 

Jordan would average 40-50 ppg in the 60s, so would Shaq, so would LeBron, so would Kobe. Someone like Dwight Howard would probably be the 2nd or 3rd best player in the league. 

The players of the 60s were developed in the 1950s when basketball resources were laughably basic and the pool of players was small. It was a niche small sport that wasn't shown on TV at that time and a lot of the black community was segregated, playing in the NBA was not exactly a big goal for people in those days. A lot of those players worked jobs like as a substitute teacher in the summer time. 

It's only in the 70s were basketball starts to become a decent sized business and development of players beginning at the high school/college level really takes off, and with the end of segregation a lot more people actually had access to these schools and facilities that true modern basketball emerges IMO. 

The 60s were an important time for basketball development but in terms of going head to head with any modern good team, they would get waxed IMO and they would have no idea how to guard a player like Jordan or LeBron or Kobe or whoever. Even a player like Carmelo Anthony would probably dominate in that era.

So do Jordan, LeBron, Kobe and Carmelo get to bring their modern training, staff, nutrition, health monitoring, travel, coaching, advanced video and analytics gathering, and decades more composite experience of the game to look back on through the time machine with them into the 60s?



Chris Hu said:
burninmylight said:

The '96 Bulls had the advantage of playing TWO expansion teams that year and shared a division with one of them (and lost a game to that one, the Raptors).

I wish someone who says the NBA was a lot better then than it is now would explain to me in a quantifiable or factual sense.

Those two expansion teams where still better then this years 76ers and Lakers.  Also the Warriors lost to the Lakers in the regular season and since it happened late in the season it was the biggest differential in total wins by a team with a losing record beating a team with a winning record.  The '96 Raptors where actually a lot better then both the 76ers and Lakers they had the rookie of the year Damon Stoudamire.

Those two expansion teams were in it to win it. The Sixers and Lakers were not. Philly's former GM felt the need to write a 13-page memento explaining why his philosophy and plan to tank year in and year out was justified. The Laker's took the entire year off to dedicate it to a long washed up Kobe. The '96 Grizzlies and Raptors were just plain bad with no way around it. Damon Stoudamire didn't do shit with his career after padding stats on a horrible team. That team had Zan Tabak starting at center, FFS. Stoudamire is comparable to Brandon Jennings at best.

Also, please explain what makes the NBA better then than it is now.



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Johnw1104 said:
Shadow8 said:

The meme make me feel better about losing a bet xD

Haha that one's great.

73-9 is still impressive, but much like the Patriots' perfect regular season it really doesn't mean much. If anything, people will just remember this as an exceptional team that somehow followed up an amazing comeback (down 3-1 to the Thunder) with the biggest choke job in nba finals history (first team to lose a 3-1 lead).

I look forward to seeing what the Warriors do next season. I don't think they'll be in the ballpark of 73-9 again, but they definitely aren't going anywhere and might play with a chip on their shoulder in the playoffs. Also curious to see what they do this off season.

If I had to pick a team to win it all next year, it'd still be the Warriors. The one thing that this series confirmed that the previous finals heavily suggested in my mind, though, is that LeBron is still a tier above Curry. He may be of an age and have the mileage that he has to pace himself in the regular season, but he impacts the game in more ways than anyone else once he reaches the playoffs.

Curry is just in the perfect situation. Honestly, he wouldn't work or be nearly as effective on the vast majority of other teams. LeBron is the entire freaking business wherever he goes.



burninmylight said:
Chris Hu said:

Those two expansion teams where still better then this years 76ers and Lakers.  Also the Warriors lost to the Lakers in the regular season and since it happened late in the season it was the biggest differential in total wins by a team with a losing record beating a team with a winning record.  The '96 Raptors where actually a lot better then both the 76ers and Lakers they had the rookie of the year Damon Stoudamire.

Those two expansion teams were in it to win it. The Sixers and Lakers were not. Philly's former GM felt the need to write a 13-page memento explaining why his philosophy and plan to tank year in and year out was justified. The Laker's took the entire year off to dedicate it to a long washed up Kobe. The '96 Grizzlies and Raptors were just plain bad with no way around it. Damon Stoudamire didn't do shit with his career after padding stats on a horrible team. That team had Zan Tabak starting at center, FFS. Stoudamire is comparable to Brandon Jennings at best.

Also, please explain what makes the NBA better then than it is now.

So you pretty much agree with me that those two expansion teams where better then this years Lakers and 76ers.  The NBA is better then it is now because the overall talent pool was better and most teams actually still played defense and didn't really heavily on the 3 point shot to get wins.  Pippen said earlier this year that the '96 Bulls would sweep this years Warriors team in a seven game series and I totally agree with him.  Also one position that is clearly a lot better in the mid 90's then it is now is centers there is no one playing right now that is even close to being as good as David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, Shaquile O'Neal, Alonozo Mourning and Hakeem Olajuwon and the '96 Bulls eliminated three of those in the playoffs (Ewing, Mouring and O'Neal).  Plus they eliminated the defensive player of the year Gary Payton in the finals.



Johnw1104 said:

Haha that one's great.

73-9 is still impressive, but much like the Patriots' perfect regular season it really doesn't mean much. If anything, people will just remember this as an exceptional team that somehow followed up an amazing comeback (down 3-1 to the Thunder) with the biggest choke job in nba finals history (first team to lose a 3-1 lead).

I look forward to seeing what the Warriors do next season. I don't think they'll be in the ballpark of 73-9 again, but they definitely aren't going anywhere and might play with a chip on their shoulder in the playoffs. Also curious to see what they do this off season.

If I had to pick a team to win it all next year, it'd still be the Warriors. The one thing that this series confirmed that the previous finals heavily suggested in my mind, though, is that LeBron is still a tier above Curry. He may be of an age and have the mileage that he has to pace himself in the regular season, but he impacts the game in more ways than anyone else once he reaches the playoffs.

Not only is LeBron still better then Curry so is Kyrie Irving and he four years younger then Curry so he is still not close to reaching his prime.



Chris Hu said:
t3mporary_126 said:

http://m.imgur.com/Z0WsF6s?r

Lol guys is this true?

Yeah that is true but I guess he broke his own curse because I'm almost certain he actually picked Clevland tonight.

Well actually I was wrong both Skip and Steven A picked Golden State so now Steven A is 0-6 in predicting the NBA finals while working with ESPN First Take.



Damn why have we started a conversation on which generation is the best?

Who cares! We've just witnessed history! Might as well enjoy this before it becomes far in the past(like the 95-96 bulls)



 

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12/22/2016- Made a bet with Ganoncrotch that the first 6 months of 2017 will be worse than 2016. A poll will be made to determine the winner. Loser has to take a picture of them imitating their profile picture.