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Forums - Movies & TV - 'Captain America: Civil War' Review Thread - 90% RT/75 MC score - WW BO = $991.0M/DOM = $314.2M

d21lewis said:
JWeinCom said:

Actually there is a pretty big disconnect...

Avengers had a rotten tomatoes score of 92%.  The user score was 91%.  Clearly one percent of the critics were bribed.

Winter Soldier had an 89% rotten tomatoes score.  User score is 92%.  The critics must have been paid to lower the score to avoid suspicion...

Age of Ultron had a 75% score on rotten tomatoes, and an 84% user score.

Iron man 3 is 75% to 75%.

Thor is another epic display of clear bribery.  77% score from critics but a mere 76% from users.

Guardians of the Galaxy:91%(critics)  to 92%.(audience)

Thor Dark World 67% to 79%. (a)

The First Avenger was 79% to 75%(a).  The bias is real!

Incredible Hulk 67% to 71%(a)

 

When we look at Metacritic, it's even worse.

Winter Soldier 70% Critics and 84% audience(a)

Avengers 69%  79% (a)

Ant Man 64% 8.0 (a)

Guardians of the Galaxy (76%) c 86% (a)

 

Clearly Disney is engaged in a massive conspiracy to inflate their ratings.

 

 

 

Some people will insist that the world is wrong to make themselves right.

I've read this whole thread.  It really doesn't matter to me.  I like DC and it's characters more but I found tons of enjoyment in both. Sometimes, Marvel (comics) gave me more enjoyment than DC offerings at the same time. Anyway....

Lawlight (unless I missed something) said that critics are supposed to be more critical but their reviews are often lined up with or sometimes better than the average viewer. He also said that bad movies make money all of the time.

Now, I don't think there's any type of conspiracy or anything. I do, however, think the bar has been raised. We've been spoiled by good/great comic book films so it's going to take more than a decent adaptation and special effects to make audiences cream their pants. 

I'm just commenting because it seems that you guys are responding and reacting to something that (again, unless I missed something) was never said by Law light, anyway. Anyway, I've said my piece. Can't wait to see the film. I've been a huge Capitan America fan since Mark Said wrote him in the 90s. Carry on.

"Disney bought their good graces, yes. You know something is wrong when movies from a studio is consistently liked more by critics than the general audience. The latter is supposed to be more forgiving and critics more critical."

It wasn't just a general statement, it was a specific claim about Disney and their movies.  However, as shown, the claim is utterly untrue when it comes to Marvel movies.  When you look at Disney movies in general, there is the same pattern.  With the exception of the two recent Pixar moviews, every Disney movie within basically the last two years either has a higher audience score than reviewer score or a score within about 3 percentage points.  Which means critics are more critical and audiences more forgiving... so the exact opposite of what is being said.



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DevilRising said:
Iron Man 2 was dull, and 3 was just bad. Thor 2 wasn't bad, but what they did with the Dark Elves, making them space aliens with ships and lasers, was just stupid, and the movie itself overall was "meh". Even Avengers 2, after the first one being so good, was kind of a mess, and they made Ultron a very uncompelling villain, which was sad.

So basically I'm banking off the fact that Cap 2 was REALLY good, arguably the best Marvel Universe movie yet, and that these directors know what they're doing, and using that to hold out optimism that they'll also make Cap 3 good. Or perhaps that they'll even get Avengers back on track and both parts of 3 (Hollywood these days lol), will also be good again.

But yes, short version: I am allowing myself to be at least mildly hyped for this, and I hope that it doesn't disappoint.

Avengers 2, Iron Man, Iron Man 3- were all terrible and have strangely highly ratings on RottenTomatoes. They aren't good films objectively in terms of pacing and plot.

The first Avengers, Captain American movies, Iron Man 1, Guardians of the Galaxy- those all are fairly good in terms of pacing and structure

 

if Civil War is anything like Iron Man 3 or Avengers 2 and gets a rating like theirs I would hold your breath, some Marvel movies seem to get ...erhm... strangely high ratings...

for example Iron Man 3 is probably one of the worst superhero movies of all time. The plot is extremely shaky, almost nothing happens (Iron man walks around a lot?), and the twist is awful and ruins something great from the comics. Yet that has almost an 80% positive critical rating on RT. Its just bizarre

 

200M opening weekend is extremely hopeful though



mountaindewslave said:
DevilRising said:
Iron Man 2 was dull, and 3 was just bad. Thor 2 wasn't bad, but what they did with the Dark Elves, making them space aliens with ships and lasers, was just stupid, and the movie itself overall was "meh". Even Avengers 2, after the first one being so good, was kind of a mess, and they made Ultron a very uncompelling villain, which was sad.

So basically I'm banking off the fact that Cap 2 was REALLY good, arguably the best Marvel Universe movie yet, and that these directors know what they're doing, and using that to hold out optimism that they'll also make Cap 3 good. Or perhaps that they'll even get Avengers back on track and both parts of 3 (Hollywood these days lol), will also be good again.

But yes, short version: I am allowing myself to be at least mildly hyped for this, and I hope that it doesn't disappoint.

Avengers 2, Iron Man, Iron Man 3- were all terrible and have strangely highly ratings on RottenTomatoes. They aren't good films objectively in terms of pacing and plot.

The first Avengers, Captain American movies, Iron Man 1, Guardians of the Galaxy- those all are fairly good in terms of pacing and structure

 

if Civil War is anything like Iron Man 3 or Avengers 2 and gets a rating like theirs I would hold your breath, some Marvel movies seem to get ...erhm... strangely high ratings...

for example Iron Man 3 is probably one of the worst superhero movies of all time. The plot is extremely shaky, almost nothing happens (Iron man walks around a lot?), and the twist is awful and ruins something great from the comics. Yet that has almost an 80% positive critical rating on RT. Its just bizarre

 

200M opening weekend is extremely hopeful though

There is nothing strange about it, they just seem to think different than you do.

I mean, they don't even think that different, they found some movies just not as bad as you did. 

First Iron Man which you seem to  like has 

Metascore of 79 and userscore on IMDB of 7.9 

Iron Man 2

Meta 57 userscore 7.0 

Iron Man 3 

Meta 62 and userscore 7.3

So, if anything at all, critics found the quality of Iron Man 2/3 compared to 1 much worse  as half a million "normal" viewers per movie.

Half a million people gave Iron Man 2 and 3 only slightly worse scores as they gave the first one. Largest difference is Iron Man 2 with 9 points less. Critics gave the second and third one 22 and 17 points less as the first one.  

So, critics had a much bigger problem with 2 and 3 as the audience had. I don't see anything crazy and strange about this. Sure, you may think Iron Man 3 wouldn't even deserve a 40 or something but just because critics don't all think like that doesn't mean that they give strange scores. 

The audience gives most of the time higher ratings, sure, but if everyone would find Iron Man 3 that horrible as you do, this movie wouldn't sit on a 7.3. Even the Top 1000 voters on IMDB gave it a 6.6 on average. 



Lawlight said:
Acevil said:

I personally want to see this disconnect between Marvel movies critically and movie goers, that lawlight keeps going on about. 

Mission Impossible: Ghost Protocol. Critics were flows to Dubai for a high profile premiere. Yeah, no conflict of interest at all, right?

You seem to imply that the bold exists, and I want to see evidence of it. Also you just took a huge leap with that about MI:GP statement and what you were arguing. Thats like me saying "The airplane gave me peanuts, I will give it a good score, to airplane gave me a steak, I will give it a good score." (Prescreening is peanuts in this example. . .)



 

Volterra_90 said:
Lawlight said:

No, they're not all different things - entertainment and gifts can be a form of bribery. Whether I or you think critics are professional or not doesn't matter (though a lot of them are just like you and me and act very unprofessionally). If they were being professionals they wouldn't have watched the movies independently from the studios.

If critics let themselves be affected by attending to pre-screenings, a lot of high budget movies would get high reviews, and that's not the case. It's not just Disney which does this pre-screening thing and invite reviewers. Also you can't see a clearly disconnection or bias with critics when the reactions to the movies by critics and general audience alike are very similar...

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/franchise/marvel-cinematic-universe/

Look at the MCU critics score compared to the audience score. They're pretty similar. You can compare it with IMDb scores if you want. 

I don't think all studios pamper critics like Disney does. The founder of Collider got invited to the red carpet premiere. They should absolutely disclose that to the public when doing their review videos.

 



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JWeinCom said:
Acevil said:

I personally want to see this disconnect between Marvel movies critically and movie goers, that lawlight keeps going on about. 

Actually there is a pretty big disconnect...

Avengers had a rotten tomatoes score of 92%.  The user score was 91%.  Clearly one percent of the critics were bribed.

Winter Soldier had an 89% rotten tomatoes score.  User score is 92%.  The critics must have been paid to lower the score to avoid suspicion...

Age of Ultron had a 75% score on rotten tomatoes, and an 84% user score.

Iron man 3 is 75% to 75%.

Thor is another epic display of clear bribery.  77% score from critics but a mere 76% from users.

Guardians of the Galaxy:91%(critics)  to 92%.(audience)

Thor Dark World 67% to 79%. (a)

The First Avenger was 79% to 75%(a).  The bias is real!

Incredible Hulk 67% to 71%(a)

 

When we look at Metacritic, it's even worse.

Winter Soldier 70% Critics and 84% audience(a)

Avengers 69%  79% (a)

Ant Man 64% 8.0 (a)

Guardians of the Galaxy (76%) c 86% (a)

 

Clearly Disney is engaged in a massive conspiracy to inflate their ratings.

 

 

 

Some people will insist that the world is wrong to make themselves right.

Thank you for proving my point - several cases of reviewers' RT being higher than the audience who should be much more forgiving.

And the very fact that 75% of reviewers recommended Iron Man 3 says it. Critics should be much more critical and less forgiving than the general audience. But that's not the case here.



Lawlight said:
JWeinCom said:

Actually there is a pretty big disconnect...

Avengers had a rotten tomatoes score of 92%.  The user score was 91%.  Clearly one percent of the critics were bribed.

Winter Soldier had an 89% rotten tomatoes score.  User score is 92%.  The critics must have been paid to lower the score to avoid suspicion...

Age of Ultron had a 75% score on rotten tomatoes, and an 84% user score.

Iron man 3 is 75% to 75%.

Thor is another epic display of clear bribery.  77% score from critics but a mere 76% from users.

Guardians of the Galaxy:91%(critics)  to 92%.(audience)

Thor Dark World 67% to 79%. (a)

The First Avenger was 79% to 75%(a).  The bias is real!

Incredible Hulk 67% to 71%(a)

 

When we look at Metacritic, it's even worse.

Winter Soldier 70% Critics and 84% audience(a)

Avengers 69%  79% (a)

Ant Man 64% 8.0 (a)

Guardians of the Galaxy (76%) c 86% (a)

 

Clearly Disney is engaged in a massive conspiracy to inflate their ratings.

 

 

 

Some people will insist that the world is wrong to make themselves right.

Thank you for proving my point - several cases of reviewers' RT being higher than the audience who should be much more forgiving.

And the very fact that 75% of reviewers recommended Iron Man 3 says it. Critics should be much more critical and less forgiving than the general audience. But that's not the case here.

Which is the case for some movies of every movie studio?  Just look up at Warner, you will find "several cases of reviewers' RT being higher than the audience who should be much more forgiving"

And Iron Man 3 with 75% doesn't say anything, just that critics liked it more than you did on average. But since you can't believe it it has to be rigged, right? In no way could critics simply say "well, not a really great movie but still worth to watch it"



Lawlight said:
JWeinCom said:

Some people will insist that the world is wrong to make themselves right.

Thank you for proving my point - several cases of reviewers' RT being higher than the audience who should be much more forgiving.

And the very fact that 75% of reviewers recommended Iron Man 3 says it. Critics should be much more critical and less forgiving than the general audience. But that's not the case here.

Not sure if trolling or doesn't understand how math and statistics work... 

Average user score=79%  Average critic score= 82%.  So no, critics are not preferring marvel's movies better than audiences.

Also... not sure if trolling or doesn't understand what the word consistently means...

"Disney bought their good graces, yes. You know something is wrong when movies from a studio is consistently liked more by critics than the general audience. The latter is supposed to be more forgiving and critics more critical."

Of the 9 movies I gave, 3 of them had a higher review score on RT from critics then audiences. 1/3 of the time is not consistently by any stretch of the imagination.  Consistently technically means always.  Colloquially, it can mean most of the time.  One out of three times is not consistent.  Several times =/= consistently.  If you think my post in any way proved your point you're mathing wrong.

If we go to the metacritic examples that conveniently were ignored, audience scores were higher by an average of 12% points.  The critic score was never higher.  If you look up all the marvel movies (which I'm not going to post here, check it out if you actually care), there is not one instance of audience scores being higher than critic scores.  Now THAT is consistent.



mountaindewslave said:
DevilRising said:
Iron Man 2 was dull, and 3 was just bad. Thor 2 wasn't bad, but what they did with the Dark Elves, making them space aliens with ships and lasers, was just stupid, and the movie itself overall was "meh". Even Avengers 2, after the first one being so good, was kind of a mess, and they made Ultron a very uncompelling villain, which was sad.

So basically I'm banking off the fact that Cap 2 was REALLY good, arguably the best Marvel Universe movie yet, and that these directors know what they're doing, and using that to hold out optimism that they'll also make Cap 3 good. Or perhaps that they'll even get Avengers back on track and both parts of 3 (Hollywood these days lol), will also be good again.

But yes, short version: I am allowing myself to be at least mildly hyped for this, and I hope that it doesn't disappoint.

Avengers 2, Iron Man, Iron Man 3- were all terrible and have strangely highly ratings on RottenTomatoes. They aren't good films objectively in terms of pacing and plot.

The first Avengers, Captain American movies, Iron Man 1, Guardians of the Galaxy- those all are fairly good in terms of pacing and structure

 

if Civil War is anything like Iron Man 3 or Avengers 2 and gets a rating like theirs I would hold your breath, some Marvel movies seem to get ...erhm... strangely high ratings...

for example Iron Man 3 is probably one of the worst superhero movies of all time. The plot is extremely shaky, almost nothing happens (Iron man walks around a lot?), and the twist is awful and ruins something great from the comics. Yet that has almost an 80% positive critical rating on RT. Its just bizarre

 

200M opening weekend is extremely hopeful though

Age of Ultron hit 190 million domestically.  Captain America did 95 million.  So, it depends if the audience sees this as more of an Avengers movie or a Captain America.  They're promoting this one about as heavily as they did AOU from as far as I can tell, and it also has Spider-man and junk.  200 million is far from a given, but it's not all that unrealistic.



spurgeonryan said:
AFter the last one being really good I have higher hopes for it. Also since Iron Man is in it that is going to help it a lot. Still not sure what is going on with the story line, strange that CAP would do this, but I do not know the comics.

Hope it will all be good.

It make sense, you'll know when you see the movie :P. At least in the comics, I'm not sure if the movie is good. Let's hope so.