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Forums - Politics - Germany: Two Men Allegedly Commit Sexual Offense Against A 14 Year Old Boy

Machina said:
binary solo said:

Not to mention, of course, that in this particular case homosexuality and paedophilia are prohibited in the Quran, so these guys have acted against the teachings of Islam. And of course the moral standard in the Quran relating to heterosexual activity is that sex should only be between a man and woman. So any sex crime committed by a Muslim is against Islamic law. Hence one cannot blame an immigrant's Muslim heritage for that behaviour, rather blame their lack of adherence to their Muslim faith for this behaviour. They might find some warped interpretation of the Quran to justify blowing things up and killing people in airports, but there's nothing in the Quran to justify crimes of this nature. So given rapists come in all colours and nationalities and Islamic law condemns sex outside of marriage and prohibits homosexual sex outright, it would seem that the immigrant and religious status of these people are not actually relevant to the case. 


Quran 9:29 - "Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the people of the Scripture, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

And yes, it means it literally. A brief bit of research into Muhammed's life soon makes that evident. Alternatively read a translated version of the Quran (1, 2, 3, or Google any number of others) - you don't have to read much, just an hour or so and the pattern will become clear - most pages contain some form of violence or incitement to violence against non-believers. I think if more people in the west read it they'd be less eager to come to this (or virtually any other) religion's defence all the time.

--------

You're right about homosexuality between adult men, but there are several verses in the Quran that allow for heterosexual rape of non-believers and slaves:

- Quran 4:24
- Quran 8:69-71
- Quran 16:75
- Quran 23:5-6
- Quran 33:50
- Quran 70:29-30

And of course you can rape your wife whenever you like (Quran 2:223). Heterosexual paedophilia is also explicitly endorsed by Muhammed's marriage to Aisha. I'll not go into the Quran's backwards views on women and inherent misogyny, but there's a tonne of that too.

Dude just stop, you have taken every last verse out of context and I assume you got these quotes and "interpretations" from pamela ghallers et al web site. Next you will probably post that Allah is the moon god or is that going to far and will expose the kind of web site you are getting all these lies from?



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This is why scum should be properly processed. Filter the crims from the rest and only let the law abiding, genuine refugees in. Real refugees are usually lovely people and some of our closest family friends are refugees from Uganda. They work a hell of a lot harder than most native Aussies and pay their fair share of taxes. They raise their kids to be respectful and integrate too.

Filter the scum.



This forum is probably not the right place to discuss such things but there is a relation to muslims and crime. The sad thing is that nobody really wants to do studies how they are related.
Is it a religious issue? Or a cultural issue? How is religion dependand on culture and vice versa?
Is it just a coincidence that muslims are seen as more aggressive? Is it just prejudices or do people who have experiences with muslims in Germany for decades already judged about these people? Or when it's not a coincidence, is there a causality involved? All questions which are not addressed in the public.
I can't even count anymore how often muslims were the topic of talk-shows and in the end it's always "don't generalize because not every one of them is criminal!" and by stating exactly this, we are preventing a discussion since years and nothing changed - no immigration effort from both the government and many that go to European countries.



X1Gates said:
Machina said:


Quran 9:29 - "Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the people of the Scripture, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

And yes, it means it literally. A brief bit of research into Muhammed's life soon makes that evident. Alternatively read a translated version of the Quran (1, 2, 3, or Google any number of others) - you don't have to read much, just an hour or so and the pattern will become clear - most pages contain some form of violence or incitement to violence against non-believers. I think if more people in the west read it they'd be less eager to come to this (or virtually any other) religion's defence all the time.

--------

You're right about homosexuality between adult men, but there are several verses in the Quran that allow for heterosexual rape of non-believers and slaves:

- Quran 4:24
- Quran 8:69-71
- Quran 16:75
- Quran 23:5-6
- Quran 33:50
- Quran 70:29-30

And of course you can rape your wife whenever you like (Quran 2:223). Heterosexual paedophilia is also explicitly endorsed by Muhammed's marriage to Aisha. I'll not go into the Quran's backwards views on women and inherent misogyny, but there's a tonne of that too.

Dude just stop, you have taken every last verse out of context and I assume you got these quotes and "interpretations" from pamela ghallers et al web site. Next you will probably post that Allah is the moon god or is that going to far and will expose the kind of web site you are getting all these lies from?

The problem is, many ppl read quran or bible and understand thing out of context and think they know the only truth !

Anyway any migrant should get a read books about how foreign ppl living and sign a charte they understand so no excuse for not understand how freedom country live and adapt to us country.

 




walsufnir said:
Is it just prejudices or do people who have experiences with muslims in Germany for decades already judged about these people? Or when it's not a coincidence, is there a causality involved?

As someone who lives in a corner of Germany with tons of turkish and turkish-german people, it highly depends on a ton of things.

-Integration: That's really an issue. Fact is, the better people are integrated the less problems. And while not so few really are well integrated others are not at all

-Mentality: That's even depending from where in Turkey families came from. And yes, it depends on religious views as well. Though i'd actually not saya that religous muslims are always conservative or even centuries backwards.

-Social status: Well, that one is nothing new and not even a problem for ethnic minorities. But with muslims overall still having a lower social status it's just likely to see more problems.

There's a ton of reasons. Some might have cultural and/or religious background while others won't.



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captain carot said:
walsufnir said:
Is it just prejudices or do people who have experiences with muslims in Germany for decades already judged about these people? Or when it's not a coincidence, is there a causality involved?

As someone who lives in a corner of Germany with tons of turkish and turkish-german people, it highly depends on a ton of things.

-Integration: That's really an issue. Fact is, the better people are integrated the less problems. And while not so few really are well integrated others are not at all

-Mentality: That's even depending from where in Turkey families came from. And yes, it depends on religious views as well. Though i'd actually not saya that religous muslims are always conservative or even centuries backwards.

-Social status: Well, that one is nothing new and not even a problem for ethnic minorities. But with muslims overall still having a lower social status it's just likely to see more problems.

There's a ton of reasons. Some might have cultural and/or religious background while others won't.

 

Oh yes, there is a ton of reasons, at least I believe so. The problem is that we have problems with muslims in whole Europe but don't talk about it as a general problem. Germans have to deal with Turkish people because they are the largest number. But in NL it's more people from Marocco that cause problems so people think that the problems are different. But in fact they are not when you look at the actual problems. For years and decades this problem was only talked about in a national way and not in an international way although the integration problems happen in many countries and are largely with mulims. Again, it could only be a coincidence but what is if it's not? How do governments want to address these problems? I mean, it's apparently largely a problem with muslims.

I don't think that the governments don't know about the similarities and the common problems but I think they fear of the consequences or don't even want to think about the consequences but instead they are trying to avoid the talk but the people see the problems every day and they are close to no parties that care about the problems.



Mr Puggsly said:
Qwark said:

 

Statements made ​​in public that deliberately incite hatred against certain individuals or groups in society are punishable.

 

This is our law, considering shading negative light over these immigrants does exactly that it is in fact not legal. It incites hatred against a minority which is punishable by law, rarely executed but still.

 

Swedish law forbids registration based on people’s ancestry or religion; 

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/swedish-pm-is-right-you-cant-blame-muslim-refugees-for-rise-in-rapes/2016/01/21/

Considering Germany and Sweden already share nearly 3/4 of eachother is laws thanks to EU. It's safe to assume that those laws also apply in Germany.


Just because a law exist doesent mean its racist or intended incite hate.

It sounds like they have to avoid giving information in fear of being called racist.

As long as that keeps the peace that is indeed how our law is written, doesn't say we execute as such. In Dutch law we have some basic rules we call them beginselen they are some sort of ground rules. One of them is the prevention beginsel. Which states that when someone can reasonably assume a negative concequence could follow out of a certain action he should avoid doing that or research the potential outcome. Considering such news post feed extreme right, populists etc. and further dooms innocent immigrants with an even worse public image CGI-QUALITY it's title is better.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

Well there are jackaasses all around the world and there are good people too. The people of the middle east are not all barbarians like the media would like you to think. For example out of the billion plus Muslims only a few thousand are terrorists. And the ratio of Muslim terrorists to ever terrorist is also a lot less than 1http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/14/are-all-terrorists-muslims-it-s-not-even-close.html



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

Eagle367 said:
Well there are jackaasses all around the world and there are good people too. The people of the middle east are not all barbarians like the media would like you to think. For example out of the billion plus Muslims only a few thousand are terrorists. And the ratio of Muslim terrorists to ever terrorist is also a lot less than 1http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/14/are-all-terrorists-muslims-it-s-not-even-close.html

Yes but we are not discussing terrorists but the actual situation in Europe, how it was the last 3 decades, how it is now and where the problems are. Saying that jackasses are to be found everywhere is something that doesn't help the discussion at all.



This is the full verse;

“Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter… But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful… If they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression.” (2:190–2:193)

This verse is about the pagans in Mecca who were not allowing the free practise of Islam and were oppressing the muslims of that time. Nothing to do with your idea about "killing all the kaffir" because if that was the case the lands that were conquered by muslims in the past would be free of all non-muslims by now since muslims have been commanded to kill all (in your words). Nations such as Spain would have no christians etc. The verses in the quran have been revealed throughout the prophet Muhammed (saw) time and not compiled at once. So the "violent" verses are a response to transgressions from foreign and local entities. Now read the full verse I posted and tell me, why did you leave out the part "but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors." and "But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful… If they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression."?