irstupid said:
JWeinCom said:
Are we really trying to rationalize Man of Steel by saying it was better than a movie that was released in 1981? People appreciate the original Superman movies for what they were in their cheesy glory. They were mostly fun early attempts to get a superhero on the big screen. By 2013 though, superhero movies had improved massively.
The complaint of Metropolis' destruction wasn't about Superman himself, but about a shittily written plot. They were trying to make a Superman movie dark and grim, and it just didn't need to be. Just cause the Dark Knight trilogy was all dark didn't mean Superman had to be. The Marvel movies have succeeded mainly because they, mostly, get the tone right. A deadpool movie being full of gratuitous violence is fine. Same thing wouldn't work for a Spider-man movie.
Whether the destruction was Superman's fault or not, it was just bad. Superman should be positive and uplifting. Instead, we had millions of people dying and countless lives ruined all to solve a problem that was drawn to the planet by Superman himself. Nothing positive happens in this movie at all. And then Superman stands in the ashes to kiss Lois like he's a rockstar. Fact is that Superman did nothing to make the Earth a better place and Jor-el fucked Metropolis in the ass.
And in Superman 2, they fought in Metropolis, but that fight was more tame than the average Super Bowl parade. It's pretty reasonable to think nobody died in that fight. And if they did, it was like 12 people who were too stupid to realize they shouldn't sit there and watch Superman fight. Comparing the destruction in Superman 2 to the destruction of Man of Steel is like comparing a BB gun to a nuke.
Zod's whole thing was that he was kind of a douche. His reason for destroying the Earth was that he didn't want to suffer like Clark did... then when Clark takes his helmet off, he just kind of adjusted in two or three seconds. What an ass.
As for destroying the truck, that was stupid as hell. Superman went to such lengths to hide his powers that he let his dad die (which was actually really unnecessary... If Pa Kent thought he could possibly save the dog without dying, then couldn't Clark do it without everyone being like OMG ALIEN!) Yet instead of just kicking a drunk out of a bar (something that people can do without being super powered aliens) he chose to do something that would require superpowers.
Of course, you're free to like it. But, if others don't, maybe it's not because they're moronic hypocrites. Maybe, it is your opinion that is flawed.
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Not justifying a movie by comparing it to another of a different age, just pointing out hypocricy.
THe love for Superman 2 and how it portrayed superman PERFECTLY is widely known. Everyone wants that superman. THey love that superman. It's the only superman they know.
First superman has not been like that superman in the comics in like 30 years.
Secodn that very superman you love so much is more sadistic and sick than the man of steel one. As I said he flat out goes back days later to get revenge on a trucker. He smiles and kills a defenseless/powerless zod and has no remorse.
Then lets get on the bs story. Lois figures out his secret, so to hide it he nearly lets her drown in the river. Then all of an hour later he "accidently" trips into a fire spilling his secret for real this time. Oh and then he just up and removes his powers asap so he can shag her, all without even informing her what he is doing or any regard to the world now not having a superman.
Oh and the kicker to all Rotton Tomatoes. Superman Returns has an awesome score. Let that sink in.
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Again, we expect more from super hero movies nowadays. First of all, Zod's death was a bit more vague in Superman 2. There was also a TV edit that showed the villains alive, and this is the version a lot of younger people (like me) have seen. They go with the classic "villain falling down a huge hole" thing that they like to do to avoid showing death. Since this is a comic book movie, and comic characters frequently like through that kind of shit, a lot of people probably didn't even think of it that way. Zods death in Man of Steel however is clear and violent.
And while people complain about Zod being killed (which I didn't have a problem with personally as they never established Superman as a character as a character with a strong moral opposition to killing people, and Superman has I believed killed kryptonians in the comics), that's not the real issue. The issue is that the movie is relentlessly grim. Superman (probably) killing Zod in Superman 2 was a weird moment from an otherwise fun movie. Superman killing Zod in Man of Steel is the last depressing moment in a string of increasingly more depressing moments. There's simply not one good thing that happens in the film aside from things getting less fucked up than they possibly could have. By the time we get to the end, it's just too much.
As for the trucker guy, you're just reaching there. Clark comes to him rather innocuously allowing him the chance not to be a douche. He decides to be a douche, and then punches Clark hurting himself. Then Clark makes him dizzy and slides him across a bar. The guy is clearly a bully (he also shoves the server for no real reason), and Clark teaches him a lesson. Not saying I love the scene, but sadistic is a huge stretch.
While they've tried to add some edge to Superman and he's not quite as boyscouty as he was, he's never been that bleak either. Snyder shouldn't, and couldn't, go back to the 1970s-80s Superman, but he also shouldn't have gone to the opposite extreme. He's bullied like Peter Parker, hated and feared like the X-men, overwhelmed by his senses like Daredevils, and morose like Batman. He's more a composite of what made other heroes interesting than a unique take on Superman.
I don't really remember the rest of the plot well enough to comment. But, I will say that Man of Steel has more than enough plotholes of its own.
As for Superman Returns, it definitely doesn't deserve a 76%, but it was still a way better movie than Man of Steel. In the same way that a shit sandwich is better than eating shards of broken glass. It at least moderately felt like a Superman movie with Clark actually contributing to the world in some way and not being a somber little bitch.
