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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Microsoft to unify PC and Xbox One platforms, ending fixed console hardware

SvennoJ on 03 March 2016
TheMessiah said:
 

From what I understand its because games haven't utilized UWP yet. If they did they would be available in the Xbox pc store. Scaling the graphics from Xbox to Xbox pc is easier when UWP is used. Because you don't have to change much code.

Different from how a developer currently ports games from console to pc.

Of course Visuals are the reason why MS would upgrade an Xbox. Admittedly they can add current tech they couldn't when the gen started like 4K Blu-ray, 4K Netflix etc to. Maybe a 2nd hdmi in.

The trains already in motion, and I guess we will see just how its done and whether the consumer likes this choice with their wallets or not.

After the huge praise Surface pro and now Surface Book have got Microsoft seem to be innovating much better these days with good results. Surface is getting a pretty good name. And is the leader in increasing hybrid market share. They seem on the ball the last few years. They have had a great turn around for Xbox One largely thanks to Phil Spencer. He seems really involved in making Xbox great again.

I'm sure the current Microsoft knows how to achieve this unity and upgrades. The Microsoft of the 2010-2013 Was a bit lost in the gaming sector and wasn't matching the good work done by the Windows and Surface teams.

I guess we will see later this year.

I got to admit, I admire your conviction, but this UWP mantra is starting to sound like marketing the Cloud.
There is no fairy dust in making software, even on the exact same hardware, only faster processor and different amounts of memory, hdd or ssd we had to test throroughly and adjust data, balance memory management and timing between threads to make the best of the different hardware platforms. Cross compile is the easy part, the real work happens after.

I don't know about the huge praise surface pro got, all I know it's out of my price reach. Not at all good power/price ratio imo.
I'm not sure about the big turn around for XBox One either, still hiding sales for example.

But sure we will see. My guess is a cheap streaming box, no disc drive, 1tb hdd, hdmi 2.0, windows 10 with xbox one innards. XBox One games will look exactly the same, there is just no profit to be made with a slight yet costly upgrade. The only upgrade will be for the OS and streaming.
Of course it will be marketed as a completely new thing, Windows 10 UWP all in One machine, nicely locked to the windows 10 store. With keyboard and mouse support in a the next update it's ready for re-launch. The main focus will be on Windows 10, windows 10 store, all xbox one games on windows 10, buy an xbox one game get it in your windows 10 library as well, etc.

But if you want the games to look better, you have to buy your own hardware with windows 10 on it. Simple.



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Aeolus451 on 03 March 2016
CGI-Quality said:

http://www.vgchartz.com/article/263488/spencer-i-wouldnt-say-our-strategy-is-to-unify-the-xbox-one-and-pc/

Maybe they're waiting for E3 to fully disclose their plans. In fact, I'd bet on it!

Yeah.... No unification.  It's just a feature called cross-buy. So many wild theories in just this thread alone.



TheMessiah on 03 March 2016
SvennoJ said:
TheMessiah said:

From what I understand its because games haven't utilized UWP yet. If they did they would be available in the Xbox pc store. Scaling the graphics from Xbox to Xbox pc is easier when UWP is used. Because you don't have to change much code.

Different from how a developer currently ports games from console to pc.

Of course Visuals are the reason why MS would upgrade an Xbox. Admittedly they can add current tech they couldn't when the gen started like 4K Blu-ray, 4K Netflix etc to. Maybe a 2nd hdmi in.

The trains already in motion, and I guess we will see just how its done and whether the consumer likes this choice with their wallets or not.

After the huge praise Surface pro and now Surface Book have got Microsoft seem to be innovating much better these days with good results. Surface is getting a pretty good name. And is the leader in increasing hybrid market share. They seem on the ball the last few years. They have had a great turn around for Xbox One largely thanks to Phil Spencer. He seems really involved in making Xbox great again.

I'm sure the current Microsoft knows how to achieve this unity and upgrades. The Microsoft of the 2010-2013 Was a bit lost in the gaming sector and wasn't matching the good work done by the Windows and Surface teams.

I guess we will see later this year.

I got to admit, I admire your conviction, but this UWP mantra is starting to sound like marketing the Cloud.
There is no fairy dust in making software, even on the exact same hardware, only faster processor and different amounts of memory, hdd or ssd we had to test throroughly and adjust data, balance memory management and timing between threads to make the best of the different hardware platforms. Cross compile is the easy part, the real work happens after.

I don't know about the huge praise surface pro got, all I know it's out of my price reach. Not at all good power/price ratio imo.
I'm not sure about the big turn around for XBox One either, still hiding sales for example.

But sure we will see. My guess is a cheap streaming box, no disc drive, 1tb hdd, hdmi 2.0, windows 10 with xbox one innards. XBox One games will look exactly the same, there is just no profit to be made with a slight yet costly upgrade. The only upgrade will be for the OS and streaming.
Of course it will be marketed as a completely new thing, Windows 10 UWP all in One machine, nicely locked to the windows 10 store. With keyboard and mouse support in a the next update it's ready for re-launch. The main focus will be on Windows 10, windows 10 store, all xbox one games on windows 10, buy an xbox one game get it in your windows 10 library as well, etc.

But if you want the games to look better, you have to buy your own hardware with windows 10 on it. Simple.

I'm only talking about Xbox one upgrades because Phil Spencer announced that's there plan. To get out of long generations. Forwards and backwards compatible. He said he would share detailed plans at a later date.  They seem to already be rolling with it. So they must have been analysing this over the last year or more. We will just have to see how they achieve this. I just think interchangeable parts is not how they will go. Its more confusing than a phone upgrade type scenario but instead of yearly more every 3 years.

I guess we will just have to wait till E3 or after.

Yeah the Surface Pros are meant to bridge rablet and pc functions. When you consider you don't need to purchase a separate tablet the cost is good. Reviews are really good for Surface family products. Including their new Surface Book ultra laptop. Its also selling more and more every year. Gaining some good traction and customer feedback.

Sure the PS4 is selling far superior, but the Xbox One is selling ahead of 360 still. Phil Spencer has a good game focus. So its a big turn around from the doom and gloom at launch. MS has the best exclusive list they have ever had. With more variety than just fps games. Killer Instinct is a great game, Sunset Overdrive, Orin and the blinds forest to name some. Games not normally associated with Xbox exclusives as they are diversifying their genres. Its definitely a turn around from Xbox one image of December 2013.



SvennoJ on 03 March 2016
TheMessiah said:

I guess we will just have to wait till E3 or after.

Yeah the Surface Pros are meant to bridge rablet and pc functions. When you consider you don't need to purchase a separate tablet the cost is good. Reviews are really good for Surface family products. Including their new Surface Book ultra laptop. Its also selling more and more every year. Gaining some good traction and customer feedback.

Sure the PS4 is selling far superior, but the Xbox One is selling ahead of 360 still. Phil Spencer has a good game focus. So its a big turn around from the doom and gloom at launch. MS has the best exclusive list they have ever had. With more variety than just fps games. Killer Instinct is a great game, Sunset Overdrive, Orin and the blinds forest to name some. Games not normally associated with Xbox exclusives as they are diversifying their genres. Its definitely a turn around from Xbox one image of December 2013.

True the image has turned around quite a bit, yet it was always selling ahead of 360. It's not a turnaround if it's only maintaining the gap. Of course the slice of the pie MS takes this gen has not turned around.

E3 will certainly be interesting, NX, VR, UWP. It should not be a snooze fest this time!

As far as the surface pro goes, I have a more capable laptop and a separate tablet (which my kids use when I'm gaming on the laptop) for quite a bit less than a single Surface pro 4. But true, the laptop is not that portable with the short battery life. 3 to 4 hours max without gpu use. And I can't write on the 1080p screen, not that I ever have the desire to do so. A keyboard works quite well :)
Apples and oranges, I guess it's a good alternative to a MacBook Pro, not that I would ever buy one of those either.



TheMessiah on 03 March 2016
SvennoJ said:
TheMessiah said:

I guess we will just have to wait till E3 or after.

Yeah the Surface Pros are meant to bridge rablet and pc functions. When you consider you don't need to purchase a separate tablet the cost is good. Reviews are really good for Surface family products. Including their new Surface Book ultra laptop. Its also selling more and more every year. Gaining some good traction and customer feedback.

Sure the PS4 is selling far superior, but the Xbox One is selling ahead of 360 still. Phil Spencer has a good game focus. So its a big turn around from the doom and gloom at launch. MS has the best exclusive list they have ever had. With more variety than just fps games. Killer Instinct is a great game, Sunset Overdrive, Orin and the blinds forest to name some. Games not normally associated with Xbox exclusives as they are diversifying their genres. Its definitely a turn around from Xbox one image of December 2013.

True the image has turned around quite a bit, yet it was always selling ahead of 360. It's not a turnaround if it's only maintaining the gap. Of course the slice of the pie MS takes this gen has not turned around.

E3 will certainly be interesting, NX, VR, UWP. It should not be a snooze fest this time!

As far as the surface pro goes, I have a more capable laptop and a separate tablet (which my kids use when I'm gaming on the laptop) for quite a bit less than a single Surface pro 4. But true, the laptop is not that portable with the short battery life. 3 to 4 hours max without gpu use. And I can't write on the 1080p screen, not that I ever have the desire to do so. A keyboard works quite well :)
Apples and oranges, I guess it's a good alternative to a MacBook Pro, not that I would ever buy one of those either.

Exactly. MS have clearly tried to innovate over the Apple products. High end, High price, Premium quality image to go against IPad, IPad Pro and MacBook pro.



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potato_hamster on 03 March 2016
TheMessiah said:
SvennoJ said:

True the image has turned around quite a bit, yet it was always selling ahead of 360. It's not a turnaround if it's only maintaining the gap. Of course the slice of the pie MS takes this gen has not turned around.

E3 will certainly be interesting, NX, VR, UWP. It should not be a snooze fest this time!

As far as the surface pro goes, I have a more capable laptop and a separate tablet (which my kids use when I'm gaming on the laptop) for quite a bit less than a single Surface pro 4. But true, the laptop is not that portable with the short battery life. 3 to 4 hours max without gpu use. And I can't write on the 1080p screen, not that I ever have the desire to do so. A keyboard works quite well :)
Apples and oranges, I guess it's a good alternative to a MacBook Pro, not that I would ever buy one of those either.

Exactly. MS have clearly tried to innovate over the Apple products. High end, High price, Premium quality image to go against IPad, IPad Pro and MacBook pro.

Holy crap man, are you a spokesperson for MS? Seriously, every single post you have made on this site raves about how great Microsoft  is in some way, whether it be its products or it's direction. Every single one. Every single article/video you link to is from some type of Microsoft PR event. If you have anything bad to say it's always vague and pretty an pretty commonly accepted opinion, but even then you try and put a positive spin on it. And a couple time out of nowhere you've brought other MS products into the conversation seemingly out of the blue so you can rave about how great they are without apparently ever using them. All that on a two-day old account.

Seems a bit odd.



TheMessiah on 04 March 2016
potato_hamster said:
TheMessiah said:

Exactly. MS have clearly tried to innovate over the Apple products. High end, High price, Premium quality image to go against IPad, IPad Pro and MacBook pro.

Holy crap man, are you a spokesperson for MS? Seriously, every single post you have made on this site raves about how great Microsoft  is in some way, whether it be its products or it's direction. Every single one. Every single article/video you link to is from some type of Microsoft PR event. If you have anything bad to say it's always vague and pretty an pretty commonly accepted opinion, but even then you try and put a positive spin on it. And a couple time out of nowhere you've brought other MS products into the conversation seemingly out of the blue so you can rave about how great they are without apparently ever using them. All that on a two-day old account.

Seems a bit odd.

I like MS is there a problem here?

I dont wish to post in threads with information on a company or product Im not interested in. I dont see the point of trolling someone elses opinion or likes. Your taking things out of context. Especially referring to the Gears on PC thing. Other people have come forward and said in your thread that they have very little problems. The same who posted impressions that I read here on VGC. Ive not been here more than 5 minutes, and really only commented on MS announcement about Upgradeable Xbox Ones and exclusives coming to PC. Of which I like and see no problem of. So why would I need to be negative? I also praised The Last Of Us and Heavy Rain. They arent MS products.

Anyway, life goes on.  



teigaga on 04 March 2016
Azuren said:
teigaga said:

An operating system which you need in order to run the games. Sony and Nintendo do not have Windows 10 on their platform and will continue to not have it unless they want a $50+ hike in the price of their hardware.

The point is there is no other competitive windows 10 living room device, the Xbox will continue to fill that space for the foreseeable future. 

This comment alone is why this discussion is now over.

 

That's fine. Fable Legends and Quantum Break are Windows 10 exclusive on PC in case you're out of the loop. Windows 10 exclusive in general seeing as the Xbox One will now run "Universal Windows Applications" from Windows 10 and that will be the basis of cross platform Xbox/PC development.

http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/maximum-pain-inflicted-on-pc-gamers-quantum-break-is-windows-10-only-1314857



gabzjmm23 on 04 March 2016

Next thing we know MS would be selling parts of this and that for upgrades. and/or revised X1 with upgraded specs in 2 years.



Swordmasterman on 04 March 2016
TheMessiah said:
SvennoJ said:

No it would be the minority of time that they have the most powerful console and never the best power to price ratio. Plus games and game engines will never fully utilize the best out of the new models. Oculus Rift will definitely not be on XBox if they release in 1 year. Specs would have to be finalized already and no way a gtx 970 would make it into a revised $400 or $500 model. Of course a revised version like Morpheus could work, it can even work on XBox One now if MS wants to, yet not the OR with the VR games that are coming to PC.

There are ways they can finance this by adopting the cell phone or cable provider model. Raise the price of Live Gold and lock you into a 2 or 3 year contract on purchase. They tested that out already at the end of last gen with rent to own 360s. Or go the full cable provider route and rent you the box for $25 a month, $30 including live and replace it every 3 years.

More incremental upgrades simply means lowering profit margins compared to the 7 year cycle. That money has to come back from somewhere, either by less powerful hardware, ie running behind the curve, meaning only being more powerful for the minority of time. Or by raising the asking price somehow, either by higher live fees with contracts or more expensive consoles. (Which would look bad compared to much cheaper slim models from the competition that still looks almost as good)

What you want is the same experience as someone who upgrades their GPU every few years. Yet you want the full redesigned, rebalanced box for the same price as the gpu upgrade. It's not going to happen.

And if the competitor has a more efficient profit model, with overall much better power to price ratio, and has the time to get the best out of each iteration, with plenty of games that can only be experienced there, a unified userbase, guaranteed support for the entire lifecycle. Who do you think the majority of users and developers are going to choose?

The developer doesnt have to do anything different from what they are now. Lok at Sea Of Thieves or Halo Wars 2 as great examples. The developer can just leave in higher PC graphical settings for the better version. And use lower PC settings for Version 1. Same way PS4 will run games at lower graphical settings. If this was a PS4 it woudnt be feasible as it doesnt have the universal Windows Platform.

Forza 6 Apex just announced uses UWP. Gears 4 will use UWP, Sea Of Thieves, Killer Instinct, Halo Wars 2, Quantum Break all use UWP And the developers have already said how easy it was to scale up the visuals with little work for the PC versions. Same would apply for a version 2 Xbox.

Of course the Xbox would be more powerful more frequently. Lets say the PS5 released in 2020. 7 years after PS4. It would be coming out against an Xbox with 16gb ram etc etc. Then in 2023 An new xbox version would release with better specs than the PS5. And again in 2026 another Xbox version to further the gap to PS5.So while the Playstation would have 2-3 years of a small power advantage. Xbox would have 4-5 years where its always significantly more powerful.

But the other difference is PS owners wont be able to play PS4 games on PS5. While Xbox owners continue to bring their entire catalog of games from 2013 through with them.

MS Im sure have done the maths. And are going ahead with this plan. Exactly how is yet to be revealed. But for sure we know its not going to be interchangable GPU's, CPUs, Ram etc sold seperately. And anymore lapse time than 3 years would make the model irrelevant as then you might as well just wait and do a new gen like they are already doing in the industry.

Im sure Oculus could be made to work on a version 2 Xbox. Just like the Morpheus runs on PS4 albeit not near Oculus PC levels.

No, the console will have not a Advantage, but the Oposite, the Xbox Brand, already lose for Playstation, with 1 Year headstart and with half of the Price, what you want to say is that Playstation, Aways will have the Headstart, and Aways will be Much more cheaper than Xbox, and with a Splited Install Base, Developers would not make a Game, that would not run on Playstation, Power is =/ of Sucess, Playstation 2, was the Weakest but the Most Popular 6 gen console, and the best console of all times, Had a 1999 Tecnology, while Microsoft, had a advanced 2001 Tecnology, so they Already had this "Advantage time", and they sold 6.5 Times less than Playstation 2.

this will only raise the price of the product, the only games that would have some Advantage from it was Microsoft's Games, that would be avaliable for PC, and with the Huge price that those Box will need to have to don't turn into a Loss, the people would just Purchase a PC, that is a Freedom Plataform, from now Every Pc, already will came with Windows 10, and People can purchase Microsoft's games from Windows Store, and Multiplataform, and Valve games, on Steam, People does not Realise that Microsoft's Windows 10's Install Base, is the Same as Steam, because they are on the Same Plataform, just on ' Click you get to Steam, so Microsoft, will only have Windows 10 User  Base, and Steam, will have Windows XP, 7, 8, 8.1, 10, Mac OS, Steam OS, and Linux's Install Base, so Microsoft, never will have more possible users than Steam, only with Xbox's Hardware.