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Kobe or Lebron?

Kobe 118 67.05%
 
Lebron 58 32.95%
 
Total:176

You neglect to mention how LeBron has spent his entire career in an absolutely pathetic Eastern Conference while having his team stacked and absolutely zero contenders outside of whatever team LeBron plays for as opposed to how Kobe had to scratch, claw, and fight his way through a jam-packed Western Conference throughout his 20 year career which included, the Spurs, the Mavericks, the Kings, the Trailblazers, the Suns, the Thunder, why do you think Kobe is 5-2 in the Finals and LeBron is 2-4. Because by the time they both got to the Finals, Kobe was already battle tested, experienced, won the toughets fights, and took down the toughest opponents he was going to face, whereas LeBron had it so easy up until the Finals where he goes up against a REAL contender out West, and his team either doesn't stack up (Warriors and Spurs), or are just mentally unprepared and unready (Mavericks).
Or how about how from 11-14 he had his team stacked with a Prime Wade, Prime Bosh, and the 2nd greatest shooter of all-time, Ray Allen, whereas Kobe from was all by himself in from 2006 to 2008 until he got Pau Gasol and they won back to back titles from there. 
You wanna know how LeBron scores?
Put his head down, drive to the rim, muscle his way to a lay-up and an And-One. And it's pretty damn easy for him to do that when he's surrounding by deadly and lethal shooters who can knock down open jumpers in their sleep. The situation LeBron was in while at Miami was perfect for him, that's why he was able to do what he did, but now look at him. He has no jumpshot beyond 15 feet, and his declining athletism is going to show just how one-dimensional he is as a scorer. Kobe can drive, post up, spot up, catch & shoot, shoot off the dribble, he was arguably just as versatile of a scorer as Curry is right now. 
Let's put it like this:
A broken down, plagued by injuries, 37 year old, about to retire Kobe Bryant is shooting a higher percentage from 3 Point Range this season, than a 31 year old, still in his prime, still in top shape LeBron James.



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Reason KD won't go in my view is because for a player like him to be effective, he needs to ball in his hands for most of the time and beat the defender off the dribble and shoot over them, he needs to play ISO ball. That's not how Golden State rolls, they move the ball around, get everyone involved and put all 12 guys on that roster n a position to be lethal and deadly, they play TEAM ball. 
It wouldn't work because the two styles would clash.



Chris Hu said:
hershel_layton said:

KD won't go. Face it. Like other stars, he wants to stick with his home team. AD, Boogie Cousins, Carmelo, they all could have easily gone to another team and try to get a ring.

 

In all honesty, I really wanted Carmelo to join the Bulls. Could have had the chance to win a ring(or at least make some effort to win the conferance finals). Bulls are trash now. I don't see how they could have replaced Thibodou(a top 5 coach) with a college coach that has no experience whatsoever with a defensive team.

OKC isn't Durant's home town he was born in Washington D.C. and played basketball in Maryland and Virginia before he went to the University of Texas at Austin for one year.  So if he really wanted to play for his home team he would go to the Wizzards.

I know his home is in DC, but what I meant by home team is his original team that drafted him. 

Carmelo wasn't always a Knick, but i know he didn't go for a ring. He chose cash instead.



 

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12/22/2016- Made a bet with Ganoncrotch that the first 6 months of 2017 will be worse than 2016. A poll will be made to determine the winner. Loser has to take a picture of them imitating their profile picture.

PwerlvlAmy said:
kobe by far. Lebron is highly overrated

pretty much

Also 5 rings vs. 2 and Kobe didn't need Ray Allen to bail his ass out



I am Iron Man

PAOerfulone said:

You neglect to mention how LeBron has spent his entire career in an absolutely pathetic Eastern Conference while having his team stacked and absolutely zero contenders outside of whatever team LeBron plays for as opposed to how Kobe had to scratch, claw, and fight his way through a jam-packed Western Conference throughout his 20 year career which included, the Spurs, the Mavericks, the Kings, the Trailblazers, the Suns, the Thunder, why do you think Kobe is 5-2 in the Finals and LeBron is 2-4. Because by the time they both got to the Finals, Kobe was already battle tested, experienced, won the toughets fights, and took down the toughest opponents he was going to face, whereas LeBron had it so easy up until the Finals where he goes up against a REAL contender out West, and his team either doesn't stack up (Warriors and Spurs), or are just mentally unprepared and unready (Mavericks).
Or how about how from 11-14 he had his team stacked with a Prime Wade, Prime Bosh, and the 2nd greatest shooter of all-time, Ray Allen, whereas Kobe from was all by himself in from 2006 to 2008 until he got Pau Gasol and they won back to back titles from there. 
You wanna know how LeBron scores?
Put his head down, drive to the rim, muscle his way to a lay-up and an And-One. And it's pretty damn easy for him to do that when he's surrounding by deadly and lethal shooters who can knock down open jumpers in their sleep. The situation LeBron was in while at Miami was perfect for him, that's why he was able to do what he did, but now look at him. He has no jumpshot beyond 15 feet, and his declining athletism is going to show just how one-dimensional he is as a scorer. Kobe can drive, post up, spot up, catch & shoot, shoot off the dribble, he was arguably just as versatile of a scorer as Curry is right now. 
Let's put it like this:
A broken down, plagued by injuries, 37 year old, about to retire Kobe Bryant is shooting a higher percentage from 3 Point Range this season, than a 31 year old, still in his prime, still in top shape LeBron James.

Did you watch LeBron's first 7 years? He played with scrubs his first go around with Cleveland. The lack of parity in the Eastern Conference was balanced with LeBron's lack of help at least in his first 7 years. Not to mention the Eastern Conference wields the best defenses, Kobe will throw up bricks against the Pistons/ Celtics defense as shown by history. Put prime Kobe on the Cavaliers from 03' - 10' & he doesn't get to the Finals once. Kobe always had the superior supporting casts compared to LeBron, ring counting doesn't take that into account. 

05' - 10' Lamar Odom >> anyone from the 03' - 10' Cavaliers excluding LeBron. 

LeBron played one year with 'prime' Wade in 2011. But.. 

00' - 04' Shaq >>> 11- 14' Wade + Bosh. 

I can show you the numbers if you like. 

Dwight, Nash, Payton, Artest/ World Peace, Malone, Jones, Bynum > Irving, Allen and Love. Kobe can't even mesh his play style with Steve Nash lol, LeBron adjusted to both Irving and Wade.

You don't think the triangle offense benefited Kobe? 

Phil >> Blatt, Brown, Spo, Lue. 

You don't think post players cater to Kobe's skill set? 

I'd take a LeBron layup over a Kobe jumpshot, skill has no part in the equation if the former is more effective regardless. Besides I think LeBron ends up having a better post game as he ages. 

Can't take physicality out of the equation when determining who is the better player. 



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PotentHerbs said:
PAOerfulone said:

You neglect to mention how LeBron has spent his entire career in an absolutely pathetic Eastern Conference while having his team stacked and absolutely zero contenders outside of whatever team LeBron plays for as opposed to how Kobe had to scratch, claw, and fight his way through a jam-packed Western Conference throughout his 20 year career which included, the Spurs, the Mavericks, the Kings, the Trailblazers, the Suns, the Thunder, why do you think Kobe is 5-2 in the Finals and LeBron is 2-4. Because by the time they both got to the Finals, Kobe was already battle tested, experienced, won the toughets fights, and took down the toughest opponents he was going to face, whereas LeBron had it so easy up until the Finals where he goes up against a REAL contender out West, and his team either doesn't stack up (Warriors and Spurs), or are just mentally unprepared and unready (Mavericks).
Or how about how from 11-14 he had his team stacked with a Prime Wade, Prime Bosh, and the 2nd greatest shooter of all-time, Ray Allen, whereas Kobe from was all by himself in from 2006 to 2008 until he got Pau Gasol and they won back to back titles from there. 
You wanna know how LeBron scores?
Put his head down, drive to the rim, muscle his way to a lay-up and an And-One. And it's pretty damn easy for him to do that when he's surrounding by deadly and lethal shooters who can knock down open jumpers in their sleep. The situation LeBron was in while at Miami was perfect for him, that's why he was able to do what he did, but now look at him. He has no jumpshot beyond 15 feet, and his declining athletism is going to show just how one-dimensional he is as a scorer. Kobe can drive, post up, spot up, catch & shoot, shoot off the dribble, he was arguably just as versatile of a scorer as Curry is right now. 
Let's put it like this:
A broken down, plagued by injuries, 37 year old, about to retire Kobe Bryant is shooting a higher percentage from 3 Point Range this season, than a 31 year old, still in his prime, still in top shape LeBron James.

Did you watch LeBron's first 7 years? He played with scrubs his first go around with Cleveland. The lack of parity in the Eastern Conference was balanced with LeBron's lack of help at least in his first 7 years. Not to mention the Eastern Conference wields the best defenses, Kobe will throw up bricks against the Pistons/ Celtics defense as shown by history. Put prime Kobe on the Cavaliers from 03' - 10' & he doesn't get to the Finals once. Kobe always had the superior supporting casts compared to LeBron, ring counting doesn't take that into account. 

05' - 10' Lamar Odom >> anyone from the 03' - 10' Cavaliers excluding LeBron. 

LeBron played one year with 'prime' Wade in 2011. But.. 

00' - 04' Shaq >>> 11- 14' Wade + Bosh. 

I can show you the numbers if you like. 

Dwight, Nash, Payton, Artest/ World Peace, Malone, Jones, Bynum > Irving, Allen and Love. Kobe can't even mesh his play style with Steve Nash lol, LeBron adjusted to both Irving and Wade.

You don't think the triangle offense benefited Kobe? 

Phil >> Blatt, Brown, Spo, Lue. 

You don't think post players cater to Kobe's skill set? 

I'd take a LeBron layup over a Kobe jumpshot, skill has no part in the equation if the former is more effective regardless. Besides I think LeBron ends up having a better post game as he ages. 

Can't take physicality out of the equation when determining who is the better player. 

You also can't take mentality out of the equation when deterrmining who is better. Who can come up big and who can get it done.
I can't ignore those 4 losses LeBron has had in the Finals compared to Kobe's two.
When it counted, Kobe came through. LeBron, for the most part didn't, he'd be 1-5 in the Finals right now if Ray Allen hadn't saved him with the most clutch shot ever in NBA Finals history.
Dwight was having back problems and causing BS and Drama and was basically a cancer in the locker room. Nash, Payton, and Malone were old and plagued with injuries, and when Kobe had Dwight and Nash, he also had this excuse of a coach named Mike D'Antoni who was hell bent on doing things his way with a run and gun offense with guys who were well into their 30s, and this once again goes into my oh-so wonderful view towards Jim Buss as an owner. Not many people understand how much team management is taken into account, Kobe basically had to make the most of a hopeless situation from 2013-onward whereas LeBron was fortunate enough to have Pat Riley. And while Erik Spoelstra is the coach, we all know it's Pat who really runs the show in Miami, he's the one in charge and the one running things from top to bottom. Spo is his guy, he's Pat's mouthpiece.

And the Eastern Conference wields the best defenses? HA.
Besides the Pistons and Celtics there isn't another team in the Eastern Conference at that time who were known for playing defense the way the Western Conference teams like the Spurs, Lakers, and Warriors did/do.
And while Shaq was more helpful than Wade and Bosh were. The teams as a whole tipped the scales in LeBron's favor.
Kobe's help: 1st run:
a) Shaq
b) Derek Fisher
c) Robert Horry
d) Rick Fox
e) Brain Shaw
2nd run:
a) Pau
b) Odom
c) Bynum
d) World Peace
e) Fisher

LeBron's help:
a) Wade
b) Bosh
c) Ray Allen
d) Rashard Lewis
e) Mario Chalmers
Bolded = All Stars Italic - Multiple All Stars
LeBron had a stronger supporting cast that benefited him in his championship runs with Miami than Kobe did in his 5 runs with the Lakers.
And as for the mediocre years from 2005-2008:
LeBron had the better overall team then too.
Yeah, Kobe had Lamar, but after Lamar he had Kwame Brown and Smush Parker, 2 of the worst players to ever pick up a basketball, ESPECIALLY Kwame and others.
LeBron at least had guys who were decent, while not at the same level as a Lamar Odom at the time, they could still play some ball.

I watched the Lakers very closely during those 2 titles in 2009 and 2010. And what you may have forgotten is that Bynum, not only wasn't at that level yet, he was also injured for most of it, he was never 100% come playoff time and was so limited in what he could do that it forced Odom and Gasol to carry a larger chunk of the load. In fact, he played that serious vs. Boston with a torn meniscus and could barely run up and down the floor!
And in that 2010 run, Kobe had to deal with:
-A Broken Finger on his shooting hand.
-A Bad Right Knee that he had drained multiple times.

-A Sprained Ankle
-Back Spasms
The two that are bolded, he had during the Finals against the Celtics.
He had to deal with all of that, and he STILL WON!
It isn't just about skillset, ability, efficiency, and support, that's just one half of the equation.
The other half is heart, grit, will, determination, and the never say die attitude. The absolute willingness to put your body on the line because you wanted to win so bad, by any means necessary. The Assassin's Mentality. The "Stone Cold" Killer that will rip your heart from your chest, stomp on it, and laugh at you while he does so.
And in that area:
Kobe>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>LeBron

I don't care if LeBron has more rebounds, assists, efficiency, etc.
What good are all those stats and that high efficiency rating if you don't have what it takes to finish the job?

THAT'S why Kobe is better. That's why Kobe will ALWAYS be better.



Robert_Downey_Jr. said:
PwerlvlAmy said:
kobe by far. Lebron is highly overrated

pretty much

Also 5 rings vs. 2 and Kobe didn't need Ray Allen to bail his ass out

You're right...he had Fisher and Horry...you know it is amazing how people seem to forget about them when hating on LBJ. And I really get annoyed by the ring argument.....how many people do you ever hear say Robert Horry is better than Kobe and Jordan(you know with his 7 rings and all)? Don't get me wrong rings and that ship that's the end goal. But they don't determine the greatness of a player.

While I again say I have more FUN watching LBJ if we were talking about who to take when it comes to trying to get a ring I would take Kobe. If it came down to someone that would make his TEAM better all around I would take LBJ.



The absence of evidence is NOT the evidence of absence...

PSN: StlUzumaki23

PAOerfulone said:

You neglect to mention how LeBron has spent his entire career in an absolutely pathetic Eastern Conference while having his team stacked and absolutely zero contenders outside of whatever team LeBron plays for as opposed to how Kobe had to scratch, claw, and fight his way through a jam-packed Western Conference throughout his 20 year career which included, the Spurs, the Mavericks, the Kings, the Trailblazers, the Suns, the Thunder, why do you think Kobe is 5-2 in the Finals and LeBron is 2-4. Because by the time they both got to the Finals, Kobe was already battle tested, experienced, won the toughets fights, and took down the toughest opponents he was going to face, whereas LeBron had it so easy up until the Finals where he goes up against a REAL contender out West, and his team either doesn't stack up (Warriors and Spurs), or are just mentally unprepared and unready (Mavericks).
Or how about how from 11-14 he had his team stacked with a Prime Wade, Prime Bosh, and the 2nd greatest shooter of all-time, Ray Allen, whereas Kobe from was all by himself in from 2006 to 2008 until he got Pau Gasol and they won back to back titles from there. 
You wanna know how LeBron scores?
Put his head down, drive to the rim, muscle his way to a lay-up and an And-One. And it's pretty damn easy for him to do that when he's surrounding by deadly and lethal shooters who can knock down open jumpers in their sleep. The situation LeBron was in while at Miami was perfect for him, that's why he was able to do what he did, but now look at him. He has no jumpshot beyond 15 feet, and his declining athletism is going to show just how one-dimensional he is as a scorer. Kobe can drive, post up, spot up, catch & shoot, shoot off the dribble, he was arguably just as versatile of a scorer as Curry is right now. 
Let's put it like this:
A broken down, plagued by injuries, 37 year old, about to retire Kobe Bryant is shooting a higher percentage from 3 Point Range this season, than a 31 year old, still in his prime, still in top shape LeBron James.

So those Cavs he spent the first part of his carrer with...they were stacked? Are you being serious right now? And since LBJ has been in the league you are saying that no team in the East was a contender outside of the team he was on? Oh I guess that's why whatever team he has been on has been in the finals EVERY year since he has entered the league......yeah....smh. Has the East been easier than the West without a doubt but don't make it seem like LBJ has had a cake walk to the finals the times he went. He played against good competitive teams in the East in the Playoffs(Bulls, Pistons, Celtics, Pacers etc).

Also if you want to be technical Wade WAS NOT in his Prime when him and LBJ got together. Wade was more so in his prime back in like 2006-2008. He was still a great player but not like he was in his Prime. Just like Ray Allen was not in his prime when he was with Miami. Whenever Kobe went to the finals he had great players around him as well. And guess what NO ONE CARES...why because basketball is a TEAM game and you win it AS A TEAM. Why LBJ gets so much hate for joing the Heat is beyond me. As for those excuses about how he needed other stars to win and other people could have done the same. Guess what other teams DID do the same(Lakers included with Karl Malone, GP, Shaq, Kobe etc) but no one complained about it.

Now I will give you that aboout LBJ as a scorer. He doesn't have a lotof moves but he does what works for him just like EVERY OTHER PLAYER IN THE NBA. He has DRASTICALLY improved his jump shot and 3 point shot. Is he as good a shooter as Kobe...not even close but he has far improved from what he was. Heck I am not even a freaking LBJ fans and I know all of this lol. It is just like people love to shoot him down and 99.5% of the time the people doing it or either Kobe or Jordan fans. Also I agree Kobe was just as versatile a scorer as Curry currently is. Just not as good a passer though but definitely a close as far as scoring goes. Sorry for the rant but the hate LBJ gets just boggles my mind lol.



The absence of evidence is NOT the evidence of absence...

PSN: StlUzumaki23

PAOerfulone said:
PotentHerbs said:

Did you watch LeBron's first 7 years? He played with scrubs his first go around with Cleveland. The lack of parity in the Eastern Conference was balanced with LeBron's lack of help at least in his first 7 years. Not to mention the Eastern Conference wields the best defenses, Kobe will throw up bricks against the Pistons/ Celtics defense as shown by history. Put prime Kobe on the Cavaliers from 03' - 10' & he doesn't get to the Finals once. Kobe always had the superior supporting casts compared to LeBron, ring counting doesn't take that into account. 

05' - 10' Lamar Odom >> anyone from the 03' - 10' Cavaliers excluding LeBron. 

LeBron played one year with 'prime' Wade in 2011. But.. 

00' - 04' Shaq >>> 11- 14' Wade + Bosh. 

I can show you the numbers if you like. 

Dwight, Nash, Payton, Artest/ World Peace, Malone, Jones, Bynum > Irving, Allen and Love. Kobe can't even mesh his play style with Steve Nash lol, LeBron adjusted to both Irving and Wade.

You don't think the triangle offense benefited Kobe? 

Phil >> Blatt, Brown, Spo, Lue. 

You don't think post players cater to Kobe's skill set? 

I'd take a LeBron layup over a Kobe jumpshot, skill has no part in the equation if the former is more effective regardless. Besides I think LeBron ends up having a better post game as he ages. 

Can't take physicality out of the equation when determining who is the better player. 

You also can't take mentality out of the equation when deterrmining who is better. Who can come up big and who can get it done.
I can't ignore those 4 losses LeBron has had in the Finals compared to Kobe's two.
When it counted, Kobe came through. LeBron, for the most part didn't, he'd be 1-5 in the Finals right now if Ray Allen hadn't saved him with the most clutch shot ever in NBA Finals history.
Dwight was having back problems and causing BS and Drama and was basically a cancer in the locker room. Nash, Payton, and Malone were old and plagued with injuries, and when Kobe had Dwight and Nash, he also had this excuse of a coach named Mike D'Antoni who was hell bent on doing things his way with a run and gun offense with guys who were well into their 30s, and this once again goes into my oh-so wonderful view towards Jim Buss as an owner. Not many people understand how much team management is taken into account, Kobe basically had to make the most of a hopeless situation from 2013-onward whereas LeBron was fortunate enough to have Pat Riley. And while Erik Spoelstra is the coach, we all know it's Pat who really runs the show in Miami, he's the one in charge and the one running things from top to bottom. Spo is his guy, he's Pat's mouthpiece.

And the Eastern Conference wields the best defenses? HA.
Besides the Pistons and Celtics there isn't another team in the Eastern Conference at that time who were known for playing defense the way the Western Conference teams like the Spurs, Lakers, and Warriors did/do.
And while Shaq was more helpful than Wade and Bosh were. The teams as a whole tipped the scales in LeBron's favor.
Kobe's help: 1st run:
a) Shaq
b) Derek Fisher
c) Robert Horry
d) Rick Fox
e) Brain Shaw
2nd run:
a) Pau
b) Odom
c) Bynum
d) World Peace
e) Fisher

LeBron's help:
a) Wade
b) Bosh
c) Ray Allen
d) Rashard Lewis
e) Mario Chalmers
Bolded = All Stars Italic - Multiple All Stars
LeBron had a stronger supporting cast that benefited him in his championship runs with Miami than Kobe did in his 5 runs with the Lakers.
And as for the mediocre years from 2005-2008:
LeBron had the better overall team then too.
Yeah, Kobe had Lamar, but after Lamar he had Kwame Brown and Smush Parker, 2 of the worst players to ever pick up a basketball, ESPECIALLY Kwame and others.
LeBron at least had guys who were decent, while not at the same level as a Lamar Odom at the time, they could still play some ball.

I watched the Lakers very closely during those 2 titles in 2009 and 2010. And what you may have forgotten is that Bynum, not only wasn't at that level yet, he was also injured for most of it, he was never 100% come playoff time and was so limited in what he could do that it forced Odom and Gasol to carry a larger chunk of the load. In fact, he played that serious vs. Boston with a torn meniscus and could barely run up and down the floor!
And in that 2010 run, Kobe had to deal with:
-A Broken Finger on his shooting hand.
-A Bad Right Knee that he had drained multiple times.

-A Sprained Ankle
-Back Spasms
The two that are bolded, he had during the Finals against the Celtics.
He had to deal with all of that, and he STILL WON!
It isn't just about skillset, ability, efficiency, and support, that's just one half of the equation.
The other half is heart, grit, will, determination, and the never say die attitude. The absolute willingness to put your body on the line because you wanted to win so bad, by any means necessary. The Assassin's Mentality. The "Stone Cold" Killer that will rip your heart from your chest, stomp on it, and laugh at you while he does so.
And in that area:
Kobe>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>LeBron

I don't care if LeBron has more rebounds, assists, efficiency, etc.
What good are all those stats and that high efficiency rating if you don't have what it takes to finish the job?

THAT'S why Kobe is better. That's why Kobe will ALWAYS be better.

You are killing me man...you are using everything for Kobe but nothing for LBJ. Like Wade wasn't having knee problems or how Bosh almost missed the finals due to injury. Ray was at the END of his career and was not the shooter he once was. Chalmers was a screw up. Mike Miller had multiple back problems. No real presence in teh middle as far as a center goes.

Then you sure highlighted "All-starts" but left out that Kobe played with PROVEN NBA champions( Robert BIG SHOT Horry, D. Fish, Rick Fox, Odom, heck even Brian Shaw was a 3-time champ) PROVEN champs come on man keep it fair at least.

Look I agree Kobe has that killer mindset down that LBJ doesn't BUT LBJ has been putting it all on the line as well so give the man his props and respect at the least. Don't try to downplay what he has done geesh lol. Kobe is better right now that I agree with. Now when LBJ ends his career I might see things different but as of RIGHT NOW he is still behind Kobe as far as all time greats go.



The absence of evidence is NOT the evidence of absence...

PSN: StlUzumaki23

PAOerfulone said:
--

I watched the Lakers during their repeat runs in 09 - 10' as well I just don't use revisionist history. Kobe's last PO GW came against the 06' Suns when he laid an egg in G7, lmao. He's the most overrated player in the clutch. Artest bailed out Kobe's brick airball converting it to a GW shot in GM5 of 10' WCF, bailed him out in GM7 of the 10' Finals when Kobe scored at the FT line in the 4th, even Fisher bailed Kobe out in the 4Q of GM3 of the 10' Finals. Kobe's best Finals (09') doesn't even come close to what LeBron did against the same team in the ECF. LeBron is definitely clutcher than Kobe: 

- higher % of GW shots hit in the regular season
- more GW shots in the PO's (higher FG% w/ less attempts) 
- better in GM7's (Kobe's best GM7 was 00 against Portland) 
- better in elimination games (highest PPG in NBA history)

You mean elite defenses like the Pacers, Bulls, Magic? All managed #1 DRTG at one point,

Kobe had better help, stop this..

00 Lakers, without Kobe, averaged 80PPG in the PO's.
11 Heat, without LeBron, averaged 69PPG in the PO's.

01 Lakers, without Kobe, averaged 74PPG in the PO's.
12 Heat, without LeBron, averaged 67PPG in the PO's. 

02 Lakers, without Kobe, averaged 71PPG in the PO's.
13 Heat, without LeBron, averaged 71PPG in the PO's.

Both of Kobe's Laker teams had more depth, better defenders, length, interior defense, rebounding and coaching.

Kobe's a fiercer competitor but that hasn't managed to give him a close out game like LeBron's GM5 vs. 07 Pistons. 

Kobe didn't win those Finals, the LAKERS did!!