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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Smash Bros. shows us why it's bad not to have an achievement/ranking system of some kind.

Cloudman said:

Oh I see. Hmm, not sure what to say, then. I often played teams with a friend and never ran into this issue. I do hear some people goof off like that for some reason.

 

It's pretty much exclusive to free for all since 1v1 and 2v2 don't have the gang up factor. That must also be why it's become so popular, people are afraid of being gang banged.

 

AlfredoTurkey said:
I haven't played the new SSB but if I did and saw people just jacking off and standing in the corner, I'd just go on the attack and pummel them into fighting. Seems like a simple fix.

 

But then they'd just gang up on you like in the video, and if they really, really don't want you to win, they'll point feed.



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Einsam_Delphin said:

 

Platina said:
The question is, will it solve fixing this issue?

I haven't nearly played Smash as much as I have with Splatoon and I've seen plenty of times where level 50s go trolling around in Splatoon. I've joined them a few times too because it's pretty amusing, but even with a level and reward system, it's not really fixed as it depends on the player.. though trolling is not a common occurrence, that is for sure

Rather, I think the main issue is that the 4 for all fight system is flawed to begin with.. because staying alive is best so not engaging in combat can help you win :/

 

Did it really look like we were trying to win? The Bayonetta player actually let me win, which was unfortunate cause I wanted to see what would happen when we all die at the same time hehe. The only winning that's cared about is making sure the attacker does not win. Otherwise, it usually comes down to sudden death where it's either who can kill themselves first or just letting the bomb-ombs end things. Besides not scoring points wont help you win. Also my point in bringing up Mario Kart/Splatoon isn't that trolling is non-existent in those games, just that it's far, far less common.

Well, is obvious that you weren't trying to win :p

In an average match, people will be aiming to win, which is what I was trying to address.. Staying alive is definitely a good strategy because that means you won't hit the negatives.. when others fight, they will get points and lose points, which will average out. Aiming to KS while keeping your damage low is definitely the way to go with 4 for alls, which isn't way it's intended



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Einsam_Delphin said:
Dravenet7 said:

Not for nothing, but I'm frankly not sure what I'm looking at here. How does this demonstrate that an achievement system is needed? I came into this thread thinking this would be about how Smash 4's challenges keep you entertained with the game or something and that's why all Nintendo games should have it, but now I'm more confused than ever.

Also if this is how you play then no wonder you are bored. 

 

Did you read the OP? I'm clearly talking about it's online.

My default playstyle is going with the flow, so if everyone else isn't attacking I wont either and vice versa. I'll sometimes be the attacker on purpose just to see if I can overcome the gangbanging, but that is definitely not what a free for all is supposed to be.

Yeah I did and I'm aware of what you are saying in the op which is why I'm confused:

Your video shows your playstyle, your first paragraph describes it and why you do it at times. Your second paragraph is where it gets confusing. You complain that the way you and others play is a prevelant problem, a problem for you. You also say if tourneys were still active it wouldn't be as big of an issue. This is where it gets more confusing. From here you state that there should be incentive to play the most casual mode in a game where online play is secondary to almost everything else. On top of this, the most casual mode of the game is the mode you play be fighting multiple people under a time limit with so much freedom to work together or fight seperately. You can tie (sudden death). You can also force a tie as proven in your video. You compare it to Splatoon, a game that specifically is centered around online play and there are no online modes where it is not team based. You also can't get a tie. Trolling to the point of boredom is not possible here. Your team is not going to  sit around and do nothing and specfically attack you if you try to win. Mario Kart 8 is a racing game. Someone has to get to the finish line to end the game. You're not going to go in to a race with 11 people stopping you in your tracks so that no one wins because the game wouldn't even end. I'm not even sure its possible to even to deter a person like that in a Mario Kart game or any racing game in general. Fundamentally, you couldn't fool around like you could in Smash 4 in for fun non-team battle and experience points clearly isn't the reason. Smash's incentive to play is to play to win. Its a competitive fighting game, and you're not fighting. Then you complain that its online is going to be a joke because you and others willfully choose not to play the game as intended. If all I did was in Street Fighter 5 was jump around and the other knocking me around, or if I was playing any Soul Calibur game online and all I did was wait at a ledge so I could ring somebody out, does it make sense for me to blame Capcom or Bandai Namco respectively because I didn't get rewarded with experience points for winning or something in a fighting game? No, it doesn't and it doesn't make sense here either.

Again, I came into this thread assuming this was about something else, but I am confused because of what you are saying here because your problem doesn't make sense



but... why are they going online to not fight? I don't understand the logic behind it, even if you play in non ranked games of something like Street Fighter you don't have people joining games to not play.

Actually rather confused by that, like... is it a case of enjoying being online? but... you can't really communicate in Smash with the other fighters so you might as well just go into a game with 3 controllers on the ground not doing anything, is this really a common thing online in the game? Surely not



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Platina said:

Well, is obvious that you weren't trying to win :p

In an average match, people will be aiming to win, which is what I was trying to address.. Staying alive is definitely a good strategy because that means you won't hit the negatives.. when others fight, they will get points and lose points, which will average out. Aiming to KS while keeping your damage low is definitely the way to go with 4 for alls, which isn't way it's intended

An average match nowadays is like the video, but sure we'll talk as if this was a year ago. :L

Of course you want to stay alive, that's generally always a good idea, but thinking you're never gonna take damage and can just kill steal for victory is highly impratical. If you're trying to say free for all inherently lends itself to being played incorrectly, well I don't think that's true. Relying on kill stealing in itself is risky as they could die sooner or later than expected, and the whole sitting in the background thing can easily be ruined by someone deciding to attack you. Even when you get a kill, those who pay attention will be keeping score and going after the leader, or at the very least they'll just be salty after dying to you lel. Regardless of all that though, when not trolling most people do play it correctly, atleast from what I've seen, so it would definitely be better if people has reason not to goof off.



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This was kinda painful to watch lol.

Just use characters like Shulk, Ganondorf, or Bowser and you can easily play aggressive...



Ganoncrotch said:
but... why are they going online to not fight? I don't understand the logic behind it, even if you play in non ranked games of something like Street Fighter you don't have people joining games to not play.

Actually rather confused by that, like... is it a case of enjoying being online? but... you can't really communicate in Smash with the other fighters so you might as well just go into a game with 3 controllers on the ground not doing anything, is this really a common thing online in the game? Surely not

I can only guess that some folks prefer not to lose over winning? Personally, the whole point of playing for me is to just whallop folks, so I don't get the reason for being so conservative, but to each their own I guess. I agree with the OP that being stuck with others who play to not lose doesn't look like fun, though I'm not sure an achievement or ranking system won't just introduce different problems by incentivizng/punishing other unwanted behaviors.



Dravenet7 said:

Yeah I did and I'm aware of what you are saying in the op which is why I'm confused:

Your second paragraph is where it gets confusing. This is where it gets more confusing. Trolling to the point of boredom is not possible here. Your team is not going to sit around and do nothing and specfically attack you if you try to win. You're not going to go in to a race with 11 people stopping you in your tracks so that no one wins because the game wouldn't even end. I'm not even sure its possible to even to deter a person like that in a Mario Kart game or any racing game in general. Fundamentally, you couldn't fool around like you could in Smash 4 in for fun non-team battle and experience points clearly isn't the reason. If all I did was in Street Fighter 5 was jump around and the other knocking me around, or if I was playing any Soul Calibur game online and all I did was wait at a ledge so I could ring somebody out, does it make sense for me to blame Capcom or Bandai Namco respectively because I didn't get rewarded with experience points for winning or something in a fighting game? No, it doesn't and it doesn't make sense here either.

Again, I came into this thread assuming this was about something else, but I am confused because of what you are saying here because your problem doesn't make sense

 

I snipped out the parts where you said what I already did and are stating the obvious as that just made your post unnecessarily long.

As said, the reason I brought up Mario Kart and Splatoon were not because of how exactly people were trolling in those games, but how many, that was all. There's trolling in all games obviously, but Smash has significantly more than pretty much every game I've ever seen. And yes it makes perfect sense to blame Nintendo for not taking obvious counter measures against trolling. Admittedly they do have rules which can kick players, but they obviously aren't working, and they haven't even acknowledged the existence of this problem.

 

Ganoncrotch said:
but... why are they going online to not fight? I don't understand the logic behind it, even if you play in non ranked games of something like Street Fighter you don't have people joining games to not play.

Actually rather confused by that, like... is it a case of enjoying being online? but... you can't really communicate in Smash with the other fighters so you might as well just go into a game with 3 controllers on the ground not doing anything, is this really a common thing online in the game? Surely not

 

For stupid fun of course, it's cool to be a rebel! Really I'm not even sure lol. Another reason it's so prevalent here compared to other games must be that gang-up factor though. It essentially forces players to play the same way as you'll be punished otherwise.



Einsam_Delphin said:

I snipped out the parts where you said what I already did and are stating the obvious as that just made your post unnecessarily long.

As said, the reason I brought up Mario Kart and Splatoon were not because of how exactly people were trolling in those games, but how many, that was all. There's trolling in all games obviously, but Smash has significantly more than pretty much every game I've ever seen. And yes it makes perfect sense to blame Nintendo for not taking obvious counter measures against trolling. Admittedly they do have rules which can kick players, but they obviously aren't working, and they haven't even acknowledged the existence of this problem.

I stated the obvious because you seemed to think my confusion stemmed from not reading the OP or at least properly. 

Additionally how you can troll affects how many troll. You can't omit that. You're not going to see people trolling in the same quantity in Splatoon because its a team based shooter nor Mario Kart 8 because you can't leave until everyone finishes the race. Try playing the same way in Smash For Fun as you do in For Glory or For Fun Team Battle. Also if the existence of the problem is caused by you and evidently like minded individuals, you shouldn't be blaming Nintendo for something absolutely caused by you when, as you say, is your descion to make despite them kicking players. Stop blaming Nintendo that you are griefing. Stop griefing.



Dravenet7 said:

I stated the obvious because you seemed to think my confusion stemmed from not reading the OP or at least properly. 

Additionally how you can troll affects how many troll. You can't omit that. You're not going to see people trolling in the same quantity in Splatoon because its a team based shooter nor Mario Kart 8 because you can't leave until everyone finishes the race. Try playing the same way in Smash For Fun as you do in For Glory or For Fun Team Battle. Also if the existence of the problem is caused by you and evidently like minded individuals, you shouldn't be blaming Nintendo for something absolutely caused by you when, as you say, is your descion to make despite them kicking players. Stop blaming Nintendo that you are griefing. Stop griefing.

 

Yeah after thinking about it I do feel the gang up factor is the biggest reason now, though a ranking/achievement system could still help here. As much as I've played Splatoon for I've never seen anyone fool around in rank battle. I'll concede that I shouldn't blame them for the initial start of the problem. We can assume they thought the "can't specifically target a player" rule would prevent this, but I can still blame them for not doing anything about it after the fact! It's their game and they control how it's played, or atleast how it's not to be played.