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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Did the dreamcast really fail because of sales?

KungKras said:
bunchanumbers said:

I hate to say it but I disagree. Saturn had lots of great games, and it had some 3rd party support. I remember playing Tomb Raider, Toshinden, Resident Evil, and some others. It actually had lots of 3rd party support in Japan. Those droughts were worse because of no localization. We missed out on Symphony of the Night, Grandia,  DOA, and Sakura Wars. If we had access to these games, I think that Saturn could have been something more. I still wish that Saturn got Lunar Silver Star Story Complete.



It had a good sports library. And a good fighting game library.
The problem was that it barely had any mainstream genres. Croc is the only 3D platformer worth mentioning, when it was a 3D platformer's world. How does that even happen?
And all of its good games were mostly nice, quirky and weird like Nights. So you really had to be deep into gaming in order to appreciate it's library. It's library really was a disaster if you weren't into sports, fighting games, imported shmups and RPG's, or a dedicated gaming gem digger.



 

I think its because they didn't really have a analog controller until the Nights Into Dreams bundle. That didn't happen until well into the Saturns lifetime. Sega didn't plan on 3D platformers and I can see why. Most 3D platformers of that era were not pretty. It might actually be to Saturns credit that many of those games didn't grace the Saturn.



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Teeqoz said:
Paatar said:
Just to correct you, the Wii U is making a profit. Unlike what the Dreamcast did. So in a way, you can't really say it's doing worse.

 

Do you mean the Wii U is making a profit on hardware alone, or just as a whole?

 

From 2014 I believe Nintendo said that they were making a profit on the hardware and the reason for no price cut in the west is due to the economy and if they did make a pricecut, they would not be profiting off it anymore. 



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Software sales for Dreamcast, and their constant development of peripherals that never stayed around long enough to earn profits killed Sega as a hardware manufacturer.

It seemed every time a device that was stronger released to the market, Sega had to answer with something. This led to a LOT of devices (such as Sega CD, 32X, Saturn) having very little software. This was pretty concerning to people who would spent money on them and gained Sega a bit of distrust.

Then Dreamcast released, but had a critical flaw in which a burnt cd of a Dreamcast game would work on the console. From there it was all downhill as you can see a decline in sales of actual games from launch to its eventual discontinuation. Even beyond that though, Wii U was trailing behind the Dreamcast and its 1st party software has sold drastically better. Sonic Adventure is probably the best selling title on Dreamcast with 2 and a half (roughly) million units sold. New Super Mario Bros Wii U sold twice that. Mario 3D World sold 4 Million, Mario Kart 8 sold 6.5 million, Splatoon sold 4 million, you get the point.



Darwinianevolution said:

Sega was mortally wounded before the Dreamcast. All that money spent on the Sega CD, the 32X, the Neptune, the lackluster developement of the Saturn, making not one, but two Shenmue games (their budget was tremendous), SegaNET, and a lot of other things meant that the Dreamcast couldn't have fought the competition even if its sales were decent. The PS2 just nailed the final nail in the coffin.

This and TheSting's post are the correct answer here. If you make your discs insanely easy to pirate (ironically with a disc type made in-house to fight piracy), and you're already bleeding out from a decade of awful decisions and corporate infighting, you're done before you even launch. The console and Sega were screwed the moment they launched because of this on top of the PS2 being on the way. 



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Anyone who doesn't say piracy doesn't understand what happened to the DC.

I'm pretty sure devs have come out and said that they didn't make games for the DC because the piracy was too rampant.

Lack of third party support, first party devs losing money because people are pirating, death spiral.
It was a great system. Honestly one of my favorites.



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Paatar said:
Teeqoz said:

 

Do you mean the Wii U is making a profit on hardware alone, or just as a whole?

 

From 2014 I believe Nintendo said that they were making a profit on the hardware and the reason for no price cut in the west is due to the economy and if they did make a pricecut, they would not be profiting off it anymore. 

 

So you mean on hardware alone? If so, then they aren't making a profit on hardware (at least they weren't in 2014). The reason a lot of people think/thought the Wii U was being sold for a profit in 2014 was because of a misinterpretation of what Iwata said. In actuality, what was said was that no losses would be incurred that fiscal year, because they had already manufactured sufficient consoles to satisfy demand for 2014, and thus the loss had been incurred in previous quarters. I'll give you some sources when I get back home to my computer in a few minutes.

 

Now, the Wii U may later on have gotten to the point were hardware is being sold at a profit, but we don't know, and Nintendo hasn't said anything about it.



Teeqoz said:
Paatar said:

 

From 2014 I believe Nintendo said that they were making a profit on the hardware and the reason for no price cut in the west is due to the economy and if they did make a pricecut, they would not be profiting off it anymore. 

 

So you mean on hardware alone? If so, then they aren't making a profit on hardware (at least they weren't in 2014). The reason a lot of people think/thought the Wii U was being sold for a profit in 2014 was because of a misinterpretation of what Iwata said. In actuality, what was said was that no losses would be incurred that fiscal year, because they had already manufactured sufficient consoles to satisfy demand for 2014, and thus the loss had been incurred in previous quarters. I'll give you some sources when I get back home to my computer in a few minutes.

 

Now, the Wii U may later on have gotten to the point were hardware is being sold at a profit, but we don't know, and Nintendo hasn't said anything about it.

Either way Amiibo, a successful handheld, and software sales have probably helped Nintendo far more than however many more consoles the Dreamcast outsold the Wii U by. Pretty sure they were being sold at a pretty big loss too (Dreamcasts).





bigtakilla said:
Teeqoz said:

 

So you mean on hardware alone? If so, then they aren't making a profit on hardware (at least they weren't in 2014). The reason a lot of people think/thought the Wii U was being sold for a profit in 2014 was because of a misinterpretation of what Iwata said. In actuality, what was said was that no losses would be incurred that fiscal year, because they had already manufactured sufficient consoles to satisfy demand for 2014, and thus the loss had been incurred in previous quarters. I'll give you some sources when I get back home to my computer in a few minutes.

 

Now, the Wii U may later on have gotten to the point were hardware is being sold at a profit, but we don't know, and Nintendo hasn't said anything about it.

Either way Amiibo, a successful handheld, and software sales have probably helped Nintendo far more than however many more consoles the Dreamcast outsold the Wii U by. Pretty sure they were being sold at a pretty big loss too (Dreamcasts).



 

Yes, but I was talking about only Wii U hardware, and wether that was profitable, not if Nintendo as a whole, or even the Wii U as a whole was/is profitable.



RolStoppable said:
The Dreamcast failed because of its gimmick controller. People were sick of Sega because they had failed time and time again to make a regular controller. Sega was always doing their own thing and ultimately that was their downfall.

Haha. Yes. Gimmick non-standard controller is the no1 predictor about how doomed a system is.





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Here are some myths that people tend to believe.

1. Sega CD: While the Sega CD was a disappointment for Sega and it's games were rather embarrassing, that wasn't "the beginning of the end" for Sega like many would believe. For an add-on, it sold somewhat decently. It had a lifespan of 4-5 years depending on the region. Also, had it been Sega's one blunder, it could have easily have been buried just like how Nintendo was able to make people forget about Virtual Boy. The truth is it was the 32X that was the beginning of the end for Sega It was the death sentence. The Sega Saturn was the stake in the heart and the Dreamcast was the external bleeding that couldn't be stopped.

2. Sony: While Sony dominated the market with the PS2, it was not Sony who killed Sega. Sega killed Sega. It isn't like Sega did everything right but Sony won anyway. Sony did almost everything right while Sega did so much that was wrong. Even though Dreamcast did a lot that was right, the damage was already done. As proof of this, look at Nintendo. Nintendo lost a lot of marketshare and a lot of third party support to Sony but they survived and even thrived because they were still profitable, unlike Sega.

That being out of the way, sales did not kill Sega. At 10 million units sold, Dreamcast had a healthy enough market. It was the lack of money that killed Sega. Even though Dreamcast was selling well, it wasn't making Sega the money it needed to make. The 32X was a bomb and led to the betrayal of consumer trust. Sega Saturn was a clusterfuck that almost completely bankrupted Sega. So yeah, it was money. Even with Sony's powerful marketing and Nintendo's constant exploitation of their multi-million dollar franchises, had Sega been profitable, Dreamcast may have lived on.

Another thing that screwed Sega out of the console market and perhaps for all time is when the Japanese management decided to no longer listen to Tom Kalinske. Had they listened to Tom Kalinske, Sega would still be in the console market today and would still be a dominant force in the industry today.



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