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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - What if Nintendo Doesn't Comeback?

 

Can Nintendo Dominate

It will Beat the Xbox One 161 32.66%
 
It will Beat X1 and PS4 59 11.97%
 
It will beat PS4 but not ... 53 10.75%
 
See Results 220 44.62%
 
Total:493
zorg1000 said:

Did any currently living person fight in the American Civil War? No, but that doesn't stop millions of people from knowing what happened, there is this little thing called documented history meaning people don't have to personally experience something to know what happened. The beginnings of PS1 are well documented and it's a fact that Sony's main focus was on marketing to an older audience than the competitors. Maybe in Australia where ur from, PS1 was primarily aimed at kids but in America & Europe it was heavily aimed at teens & young adults.

Lol I have no problem with Nintendo adapting or receiving criticism, the only thing I ever said was that ur original statement is a contradiction, which it is. This whole stupid argument would have ended long ago if u simply said something like, "ya, my 1995 comparison wasn't very accurate" nobody would think less of u for admitting u were wrong.

Yet a person who actually lived through it would know what it was like better than somebody who only read about it years later.

Your statement several pages back where you expressed disgust at the thought of Nintendo adapting to today's market as well as your aggressive tone suggests that you're too emotionally invested in this issue to step back and view things objectively.



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curl-6 said:
zorg1000 said:

Did any currently living person fight in the American Civil War? No, but that doesn't stop millions of people from knowing what happened, there is this little thing called documented history meaning people don't have to personally experience something to know what happened. The beginnings of PS1 are well documented and it's a fact that Sony's main focus was on marketing to an older audience than the competitors. Maybe in Australia where ur from, PS1 was primarily aimed at kids but in America & Europe it was heavily aimed at teens & young adults.

Lol I have no problem with Nintendo adapting or receiving criticism, the only thing I ever said was that ur original statement is a contradiction, which it is. This whole stupid argument would have ended long ago if u simply said something like, "ya, my 1995 comparison wasn't very accurate" nobody would think less of u for admitting u were wrong.

Yet a person who actually lived through it would know what it was like better than somebody who only read about it years later.

Your statement several pages back where you expressed disgust at the thought of Nintendo adapting to today's market as well as your aggressive tone suggests that you're too emotionally invested in this issue to step back and view things objectively.

 

There is no denying that the original Playstation was heavily aimed at teens & young adults, just like PS4 is heavily aimed at teens & young adults.

I express disgust at the idea of Nintendo imitating the competition by becoming basically a clone of PS/XB which is essentially what u suggested, I however have no problem whatsoever with Nintendo adapting and making certain changes that need to be done.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

zorg1000 said:
curl-6 said:

Yet a person who actually lived through it would know what it was like better than somebody who only read about it years later.

Your statement several pages back where you expressed disgust at the thought of Nintendo adapting to today's market as well as your aggressive tone suggests that you're too emotionally invested in this issue to step back and view things objectively.

There is no denying that the original Playstation was heavily aimed at teens & young adults, just like PS4 is heavily aimed at teens & young adults.

I express disgust at the idea of Nintendo imitating the competition by becoming basically a clone of PS/XB which is essentially what u suggested, I however have no problem whatsoever with Nintendo adapting and making certain changes that need to be done.

They both hit the teen market, true, but games like Crash Bandicoot and Spyro were core pillars of the PS1, the same can't be said of Knack or LBP3 on PS4.

And I never suggested that Nintendo become a clone of Sony/Microsoft per se, simply that they learn from those companies and adopt a more balanced and diverse software output. I say this out of love; I want Nintendo to do well, but for that to happen they have to do a better job of appealing to today's market.



zorg1000 said:
curl-6 said:

Yet a person who actually lived through it would know what it was like better than somebody who only read about it years later.

Your statement several pages back where you expressed disgust at the thought of Nintendo adapting to today's market as well as your aggressive tone suggests that you're too emotionally invested in this issue to step back and view things objectively.

 

There is no denying that the original Playstation was heavily aimed at teens & young adults, just like PS4 is heavily aimed at teens & young adults.

I express disgust at the idea of Nintendo imitating the competition by becoming basically a clone of PS/XB which is essentially what u suggested, I however have no problem whatsoever with Nintendo adapting and making certain changes that need to be done.

I dunno maybe accepting that gaming is a industry largely fuelled by adults and making products with those priorities in mind is not about imitation but simply accepting reality? 

Even most of Nintendo fans I'd wager are actually adults. Little kids these days don't care about Zelda or Amiibos, it's mostly 25-35 year old men. 

Nintendo will never be exactly like Sony/MS, because of their franchise properties and unique style is always evident in anything they do, did you find the Super NES to be an imitation of the Genesis even though they were similar types of hardware? 





curl-6 said:
zorg1000 said:

There is no denying that the original Playstation was heavily aimed at teens & young adults, just like PS4 is heavily aimed at teens & young adults.

I express disgust at the idea of Nintendo imitating the competition by becoming basically a clone of PS/XB which is essentially what u suggested, I however have no problem whatsoever with Nintendo adapting and making certain changes that need to be done.

They both hit the teen market, true, but games like Crash Bandicoot and Spyro were core pillars of the PS1, the same can't be said of Knack or LBP3 on PS4.

And I never suggested that Nintendo become a clone of Sony/Microsoft per se, simply that they learn from those companies and adopt a more balanced and diverse software output. I say this out of love; I want Nintendo to do well, but for that to happen they have to do a better job of appealing to today's market.

What u said was that Nintendo should start developing M-rated games and that's not in Nintendo's DNA, they can become more mainstream without changing who they are. It's like asking Disney/Pixar to start creating live-action R-rated movies while cutting back on PG-rated animated movies, it's not going to and should never happen.

Now on the other hand we have seen Disney invest in things like Marvel & Star Wars which are certainly more mainstream and serious but they are still acceptable for all ages. That is a type of thing I could see Nintendo doing, they are a company that prides themselves in being acceptable for all ages and having a more M-rated focused library changes who Nintendo is at their core.

So basically what I'm saying is Nintendo can go for more T-rated games that appeal to adults while still being suitable for children, similar to the way Marvel & Star Wars are PG-13 and have a strong appeal towards adults while still being completely acceptable for an 8 year old to watch.

Here are some examples of what I think Nintendo should do to appeal more to mainstream western gamers. Nintendo has 4 western studios that they either own or have a close relationship with, Retro Studios, Nintendo Software Technology, Monster Games & Next Level Games. Nintendo should start making these studios play more to their strengths and build a strong western focused library.

Retro Studios did an amazing job with Metroid Prime & Donkey Kong but it's time to let them explore and do their own thing. I think they could make a great western-RPG/FPS, something that combines certain elements of Metroid Prime, Bioshock, Borderlands, Fallout and create a new T-rated IP with those elements. Basically the western equivalent of Xenoblade.

NST previously worked on Wave-Rave & 1080 Snowboarding but has recently only done small Mario vs Donkey Kong eShop titles, I say let them get back to making those extreme sports titles.

Next Level Games is another studio with a lot of sports experience, let them go back to their roots. I don't think they should make games intended to compete directly with the likes of Madden/FIFA/NBA and they also shouldn't just make Mario Sports games, instead I suggest they make a line of sports games that is somewhere in the middle in terms of gameplay & visuals. I think Camelot should do the same with Golf & Tennis, retire the Mario series and instead make a brand new line of sports games.

Monster Games is a studio that until recently focused on racing games, again I say let them return to their roots. I don't see a Gran Turismo or Forza competitor being made but Nintendo has things like Excite & F-Zero that they could develop or even something that resembles a Cruis'n series spiritual successor.

Nintendo has a handful of western studios with experience making western focused games, they should use this to their advantage. If Nintendo wants to publish the occasional M-rated game like they did with Bayonetta, Fatal Frame, Devil's Third, that's fine but it can't be their primary focus. The types of games I described above are titles that can appeal to adults while remaining suitable for all ages.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

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Soundwave said:
zorg1000 said:

 

There is no denying that the original Playstation was heavily aimed at teens & young adults, just like PS4 is heavily aimed at teens & young adults.

I express disgust at the idea of Nintendo imitating the competition by becoming basically a clone of PS/XB which is essentially what u suggested, I however have no problem whatsoever with Nintendo adapting and making certain changes that need to be done.

I dunno maybe accepting that gaming is a industry largely fuelled by adults and making products with those priorities in mind is not about imitation but simply accepting reality? 

Even most of Nintendo fans I'd wager are actually adults. Little kids these days don't care about Zelda or Amiibos, it's mostly 25-35 year old men. 

Nintendo will never be exactly like Sony/MS, because of their franchise properties and unique style is always evident in anything they do, did you find the Super NES to be an imitation of the Genesis even though they were similar types of hardware? 



Read the post I just replied to Curl.





When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

zorg1000 said:
curl-6 said:

Yet a person who actually lived through it would know what it was like better than somebody who only read about it years later.

Your statement several pages back where you expressed disgust at the thought of Nintendo adapting to today's market as well as your aggressive tone suggests that you're too emotionally invested in this issue to step back and view things objectively.

 

There is no denying that the original Playstation was heavily aimed at teens & young adults, just like PS4 is heavily aimed at teens & young adults.

I express disgust at the idea of Nintendo imitating the competition by becoming basically a clone of PS/XB which is essentially what u suggested, I however have no problem whatsoever with Nintendo adapting and making certain changes that need to be done.

I don't know.  I saw the PS1 as targeting core teen gamers while I see the PS4/xbox one more as targeting adult casuals (people who play video games but don't have the time in their lives to learn complicated/skill-oriented gameplay mechanics and prefer easy, low-effort, high-profile games with stories that try to be ultra-serious). 

Which makes me think that for the NX, Nintendo should make an effort to gain the core teen market like they tried to do in the mid-90's by focusing on some good, non-niche, high profile teen and mature rated games with in-depth gameplay mechanics that have more of a focus on gaming experiences where you spend more time interacting with the game rather than watching the game.  LIke, I wouldn't expect Nintendo to churn out or push for games like Uncharted, Beyond: Two Souls, Metal Gear Solid  5, The Last of Us, the new Tomb Raider or Order 1886 but I can see games like Dark Souls, Dragon's Dogma, Monster Hunter, Street Fighter or another Bayonetta/Xenoblade fitting in with a push to gain a more diversified audience.



zorg1000 said:

What u said was that Nintendo should start developing M-rated games and that's not in Nintendo's DNA, they can become more mainstream without changing who they are. It's like asking Disney/Pixar to start creating live-action R-rated movies while cutting back on PG-rated animated movies, it's not going to and should never happen.

Now on the other hand we have seen Disney invest in things like Marvel & Star Wars which are certainly more mainstream and serious but they are still acceptable for all ages. That is a type of thing I could see Nintendo doing, they are a company that prides themselves in being acceptable for all ages and having a more M-rated focused library changes who Nintendo is at their core.

So basically what I'm saying is Nintendo can go for more T-rated games that appeal to adults while still being suitable for children, similar to the way Marvel & Star Wars are PG-13 and have a strong appeal towards adults while still being completely acceptable for an 8 year old to watch.

Here are some examples of what I think Nintendo should do to appeal more to mainstream western gamers. Nintendo has 4 western studios that they either own or have a close relationship with, Retro Studios, Nintendo Software Technology, Monster Games & Next Level Games. Nintendo should start making these studios play more to their strengths and build a strong western focused library.

Retro Studios did an amazing job with Metroid Prime & Donkey Kong but it's time to let them explore and do their own thing. I think they could make a great western-RPG/FPS, something that combines certain elements of Metroid Prime, Bioshock, Borderlands, Fallout and create a new T-rated IP with those elements. Basically the western equivalent of Xenoblade.

NST previously worked on Wave-Rave & 1080 Snowboarding but has recently only done small Mario vs Donkey Kong eShop titles, I say let them get back to making those extreme sports titles.

Next Level Games is another studio with a lot of sports experience, let them go back to their roots. I don't think they should make games intended to compete directly with the likes of Madden/FIFA/NBA and they also shouldn't just make Mario Sports games, instead I suggest they make a line of sports games that is somewhere in the middle in terms of gameplay & visuals. I think Camelot should do the same with Golf & Tennis, retire the Mario series and instead make a brand new line of sports games.

Monster Games is a studio that until recently focused on racing games, again I say let them return to their roots. I don't see a Gran Turismo or Forza competitor being made but Nintendo has things like Excite & F-Zero that they could develop or even something that resembles a Cruis'n series spiritual successor.

Nintendo has a handful of western studios with experience making western focused games, they should use this to their advantage. If Nintendo wants to publish the occasional M-rated game like they did with Bayonetta, Fatal Frame, Devil's Third, that's fine but it can't be their primary focus. The types of games I described above are titles that can appeal to adults while remaining suitable for all ages.

I'm not saying the majority of their output needs to be M-rated, but a good balance would be that for every Mario Kart, Splatoon, or Kirby, they put out a game like Metroid, Xenoblade, F-Zero, or a new IP along the lines of Bioshock or Uncharted or the Souls games.

At the moment, their output simply doesn't offer enough to the kind of gamer who's not into E-rated cartoon fare.



zorg1000 said:
curl-6 said:

They both hit the teen market, true, but games like Crash Bandicoot and Spyro were core pillars of the PS1, the same can't be said of Knack or LBP3 on PS4.

And I never suggested that Nintendo become a clone of Sony/Microsoft per se, simply that they learn from those companies and adopt a more balanced and diverse software output. I say this out of love; I want Nintendo to do well, but for that to happen they have to do a better job of appealing to today's market.

What u said was that Nintendo should start developing M-rated games and that's not in Nintendo's DNA, they can become more mainstream without changing who they are. It's like asking Disney/Pixar to start creating live-action R-rated movies while cutting back on PG-rated animated movies, it's not going to and should never happen.

Now on the other hand we have seen Disney invest in things like Marvel & Star Wars which are certainly more mainstream and serious but they are still acceptable for all ages. That is a type of thing I could see Nintendo doing, they are a company that prides themselves in being acceptable for all ages and having a more M-rated focused library changes who Nintendo is at their core.

So basically what I'm saying is Nintendo can go for more T-rated games that appeal to adults while still being suitable for children, similar to the way Marvel & Star Wars are PG-13 and have a strong appeal towards adults while still being completely acceptable for an 8 year old to watch.

Here are some examples of what I think Nintendo should do to appeal more to mainstream western gamers. Nintendo has 4 western studios that they either own or have a close relationship with, Retro Studios, Nintendo Software Technology, Monster Games & Next Level Games. Nintendo should start making these studios play more to their strengths and build a strong western focused library.

Retro Studios did an amazing job with Metroid Prime & Donkey Kong but it's time to let them explore and do their own thing. I think they could make a great western-RPG/FPS, something that combines certain elements of Metroid Prime, Bioshock, Borderlands, Fallout and create a new T-rated IP with those elements. Basically the western equivalent of Xenoblade.

NST previously worked on Wave-Rave & 1080 Snowboarding but has recently only done small Mario vs Donkey Kong eShop titles, I say let them get back to making those extreme sports titles.

Next Level Games is another studio with a lot of sports experience, let them go back to their roots. I don't think they should make games intended to compete directly with the likes of Madden/FIFA/NBA and they also shouldn't just make Mario Sports games, instead I suggest they make a line of sports games that is somewhere in the middle in terms of gameplay & visuals. I think Camelot should do the same with Golf & Tennis, retire the Mario series and instead make a brand new line of sports games.

Monster Games is a studio that until recently focused on racing games, again I say let them return to their roots. I don't see a Gran Turismo or Forza competitor being made but Nintendo has things like Excite & F-Zero that they could develop or even something that resembles a Cruis'n series spiritual successor.

Nintendo has a handful of western studios with experience making western focused games, they should use this to their advantage. If Nintendo wants to publish the occasional M-rated game like they did with Bayonetta, Fatal Frame, Devil's Third, that's fine but it can't be their primary focus. The types of games I described above are titles that can appeal to adults while remaining suitable for all ages.

 

The sad thing is Ninty was doing something just like this with N64...how that turned out? What you're saying makes sense and maybe i have less faith in Ninty than you do, but they dont have it in them to do this again. I think their pride will never allow them to let a western studio (cause lets be real those are the guys that are experts at these T-M rated FPS shotter things) to ever get too popular to give them leeway to really go the distance. Thats not even a Ninty issue, Square Enix is kinda like it too.  I hope im wrong.



oniyide said:
zorg1000 said:

What u said was that Nintendo should start developing M-rated games and that's not in Nintendo's DNA, they can become more mainstream without changing who they are. It's like asking Disney/Pixar to start creating live-action R-rated movies while cutting back on PG-rated animated movies, it's not going to and should never happen.

Now on the other hand we have seen Disney invest in things like Marvel & Star Wars which are certainly more mainstream and serious but they are still acceptable for all ages. That is a type of thing I could see Nintendo doing, they are a company that prides themselves in being acceptable for all ages and having a more M-rated focused library changes who Nintendo is at their core.

So basically what I'm saying is Nintendo can go for more T-rated games that appeal to adults while still being suitable for children, similar to the way Marvel & Star Wars are PG-13 and have a strong appeal towards adults while still being completely acceptable for an 8 year old to watch.

Here are some examples of what I think Nintendo should do to appeal more to mainstream western gamers. Nintendo has 4 western studios that they either own or have a close relationship with, Retro Studios, Nintendo Software Technology, Monster Games & Next Level Games. Nintendo should start making these studios play more to their strengths and build a strong western focused library.

Retro Studios did an amazing job with Metroid Prime & Donkey Kong but it's time to let them explore and do their own thing. I think they could make a great western-RPG/FPS, something that combines certain elements of Metroid Prime, Bioshock, Borderlands, Fallout and create a new T-rated IP with those elements. Basically the western equivalent of Xenoblade.

NST previously worked on Wave-Rave & 1080 Snowboarding but has recently only done small Mario vs Donkey Kong eShop titles, I say let them get back to making those extreme sports titles.

Next Level Games is another studio with a lot of sports experience, let them go back to their roots. I don't think they should make games intended to compete directly with the likes of Madden/FIFA/NBA and they also shouldn't just make Mario Sports games, instead I suggest they make a line of sports games that is somewhere in the middle in terms of gameplay & visuals. I think Camelot should do the same with Golf & Tennis, retire the Mario series and instead make a brand new line of sports games.

Monster Games is a studio that until recently focused on racing games, again I say let them return to their roots. I don't see a Gran Turismo or Forza competitor being made but Nintendo has things like Excite & F-Zero that they could develop or even something that resembles a Cruis'n series spiritual successor.

Nintendo has a handful of western studios with experience making western focused games, they should use this to their advantage. If Nintendo wants to publish the occasional M-rated game like they did with Bayonetta, Fatal Frame, Devil's Third, that's fine but it can't be their primary focus. The types of games I described above are titles that can appeal to adults while remaining suitable for all ages.

 

The sad thing is Ninty was doing something just like this with N64...how that turned out? What you're saying makes sense and maybe i have less faith in Ninty than you do, but they dont have it in them to do this again. I think their pride will never allow them to let a western studio (cause lets be real those are the guys that are experts at these T-M rated FPS shotter things) to ever get too popular to give them leeway to really go the distance. Thats not even a Ninty issue, Square Enix is kinda like it too.  I hope im wrong.

 

It actually worked out pretty well for Nintendo, the drop from SNES to N64 sales was pretty miniscule outside of Japan despite the massive drop in 3rd party support.

SNES sales outside of Japan=32 million

N64 sales outside of Japan=28 million

N64 & SNES software sales are also pretty even outside of Japan with a much higher percentage of sales coming from Nintendo-published titles on N64.

Over 90% of the decline from SNES to N64 happened in Japan due to the RPG & fighting markets migrating from SNES to Playstation. And since my post was specifically on how to attract a western audience, the Japanese market is irrelevant to what I was discussing.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.