Forums - Sales Discussion - Nintendo means bad news for 3rd parties!

thanks for playing...



currently playing: Skyward Sword, Mario Sunshine, Xenoblade Chronicles X

Around the Network

I dont think Wii is selling so well between hardcore gamers ,its success its like the DS ...its selling well between everybody because it is "new " and "fresh " and the wiimote allows for a distinctive marketing . But ,most of those buyers are casual gamers to the bone ,many in fact will just play Wiisports and wont buy another game for a year .Thats happening with the DS right now ,many consoles are sold ,those people buy Nintendogs ,BT or Mario ...and thats it .Sure ,there are enough hardcore to guarantee some games as FF decent sales ,but most of the success outside those heavy-hitters (that continue to be the same after one year and a half ) is kiddie stuff as Dogz ,Catz ,Hannah Montana and Pokemon .That and Mario ,of course ,be it Mario Party ,Paper Mario ,Mario Soccer ,Mario in the Shower or whatever .Kids happen to love Mario ,it seems ,and so does some veteran gamers .In any case ,its nearly all Nintendo software . What I am saying is that Nintendo is replicating exactly the same pattern with the Wii ,and if that happens expect great results for Nintendo ,for Square (although less that last generation ) and for THQ and its movie cash-in.The others will have a hard time .Casual gamers the like of wich are buying the Wii just wont but 7-10 games a year as in the other plattforms ,and the kind of games they are interested is far more restricted and once all start doing the same stuff the competition will be enourmous and only one or two will manage to make benefits aside from Nintendo . And about Nintendo and third party games ...well Nintendo has interest in the third parties supporting them ,of course ,but Nintendo makes money primarily on its hardware and games .Yes ,each Wii game gives them some dollars in revenue through royalties ,but a first party game gives them much more dollars .AS for some developers I know it appears Nintendo doesnt play fair with third parties ,apparently they dont give in developing kits the same quality they keep for themselves so the third party efforts are nearly always half-baked compared to a Nintendo superproduction . As some analyst said ,Nintendo success is reshaping the market to its favour and desires ,but that is beneficial only for Nintendo ,and the losers here (aside from Sony and Microsoft ) are the third parties .



Diomedes1976 said:
I dont think Wii is selling so well between hardcore gamers ,its success its like the DS ...its selling well between everybody because it is "new " and "fresh " and the wiimote allows for a distinctive marketing . But ,most of those buyers are casual gamers to the bone ,many in fact will just play Wiisports and wont buy another game for a year .Thats happening with the DS right now ,many consoles are sold ,those people buy Nintendogs ,BT or Mario ...and thats it .Sure ,there are enough hardcore to guarantee some games as FF decent sales ,but most of the success outside those heavy-hitters (that continue to be the same after one year and a half ) is kiddie stuff as Dogz ,Catz ,Hannah Montana and Pokemon .That and Mario ,of course ,be it Mario Party ,Paper Mario ,Mario Soccer ,Mario in the Shower or whatever .Kids happen to love Mario ,it seems ,and so does some veteran gamers .In any case ,its nearly all Nintendo software . What I am saying is that Nintendo is replicating exactly the same pattern with the Wii ,and if that happens expect great results for Nintendo ,for Square (although less that last generation ) and for THQ and its movie cash-in.The others will have a hard time .Casual gamers the like of wich are buying the Wii just wont but 7-10 games a year as in the other plattforms ,and the kind of games they are interested is far more restricted and once all start doing the same stuff the competition will be enourmous and only one or two will manage to make benefits aside from Nintendo . And about Nintendo and third party games ...well Nintendo has interest in the third parties supporting them ,of course ,but Nintendo makes money primarily on its hardware and games .Yes ,each Wii game gives them some dollars in revenue through royalties ,but a first party game gives them much more dollars .AS for some developers I know it appears Nintendo doesnt play fair with third parties ,apparently they dont give in developing kits the same quality they keep for themselves so the third party efforts are nearly always half-baked compared to a Nintendo superproduction . As some analyst said ,Nintendo success is reshaping the market to its favour and desires ,but that is beneficial only for Nintendo ,and the losers here (aside from Sony and Microsoft ) are the third parties .

Can you explain why the DS has a profoundly higher attach rate than the PSP? In less fancy speak: the average DS owner worldwide is buying almost twice as many games for their DS as the average PSP owner. The core thesis of your post here seems to be that Wii owners -- like DS owners -- won't buy many games for their system, when in fact DS owners have bought tons of games for their system, considerably more than those who own a PSP. Which, I believe, blows apart your entire post.

Am I wrong somehow?



http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">

Bodhesatva said:
Diomedes1976 said:
I dont think Wii is selling so well between hardcore gamers ,its success its like the DS ...its selling well between everybody because it is "new " and "fresh " and the wiimote allows for a distinctive marketing . But ,most of those buyers are casual gamers to the bone ,many in fact will just play Wiisports and wont buy another game for a year .Thats happening with the DS right now ,many consoles are sold ,those people buy Nintendogs ,BT or Mario ...and thats it .Sure ,there are enough hardcore to guarantee some games as FF decent sales ,but most of the success outside those heavy-hitters (that continue to be the same after one year and a half ) is kiddie stuff as Dogz ,Catz ,Hannah Montana and Pokemon .That and Mario ,of course ,be it Mario Party ,Paper Mario ,Mario Soccer ,Mario in the Shower or whatever .Kids happen to love Mario ,it seems ,and so does some veteran gamers .In any case ,its nearly all Nintendo software . What I am saying is that Nintendo is replicating exactly the same pattern with the Wii ,and if that happens expect great results for Nintendo ,for Square (although less that last generation ) and for THQ and its movie cash-in.The others will have a hard time .Casual gamers the like of wich are buying the Wii just wont but 7-10 games a year as in the other plattforms ,and the kind of games they are interested is far more restricted and once all start doing the same stuff the competition will be enourmous and only one or two will manage to make benefits aside from Nintendo . And about Nintendo and third party games ...well Nintendo has interest in the third parties supporting them ,of course ,but Nintendo makes money primarily on its hardware and games .Yes ,each Wii game gives them some dollars in revenue through royalties ,but a first party game gives them much more dollars .AS for some developers I know it appears Nintendo doesnt play fair with third parties ,apparently they dont give in developing kits the same quality they keep for themselves so the third party efforts are nearly always half-baked compared to a Nintendo superproduction . As some analyst said ,Nintendo success is reshaping the market to its favour and desires ,but that is beneficial only for Nintendo ,and the losers here (aside from Sony and Microsoft ) are the third parties .

Can you explain why the DS has a profoundly higher attach rate than the PSP? In less fancy speak: the average DS owner worldwide is buying almost twice as many games for their DS as the average PSP owner. The core thesis of your post here seems to be that Wii owners -- like DS owners -- won't buy many games for their system, when in fact DS owners have bought tons of games for their system, considerably more than those who own a PSP. Which, I believe, blows apart your entire post.

Am I wrong somehow?


 

Bodhesatva is right, and I think it is better for 3rd parties because it sells to a wider audience and in that there is potential for another group of gamers to emerge, its just a cace of who has the imagination and the balls.



My father had a profound influence on me - he was a lunatic

Bodhesatva said:
Cipherr said:
johnsobas said:
Madden Wii didn't outsell the PS3 version and the gamecube RE4 didn't outsell the PS2 one....

You are wrong on both fronts. Last time Madden was on the charts for both Wii and PS3 the Wii was behind,it caught it and passed it weeks after that. And RE4 for cube was over a million sold, PS2 version came no where NEAR that.

 

Thanks for playing?


As you can see by this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games

Resident Evil 4 for the Gamecube sold approximately 1.6 million copies. Resident Evil 4 for the PS2 sold approximately 2.1 million.

As you can see on this page: http://vgchartz.com/aweekly.php?page=3&date=39215

The PS3 version of Madden 07 has still sold better than the Wii version -- and also notably, it is still selling more copies on a weekly basis. The gap is (Very slightly) widening, not closing. The total sales are 383,443 for the PS3 version, and 355,759 for the Wii version. 

 

Please don't just make up stuff.


This does not matter, as your numbers aren't exactly "accurate" either. The bottom line however is this, as the userbase grows steadily, so too will the number of 3rd party sales. Nintendo is a software dominated house, always have & always will be. Though they are making definitive strides to make the Wii/DS profitable as well for 3rd parties also. Even more so  than in the GC days when they 1st began re-establishing & fostering good 3rd party relationships. (Capcom, Square, the Q-fund, etc.)



"The things we touch have no permanence."

Around the Network

By the way, in regards to the Wii's SDK, we know that EAD is rewriting it while developing Mario Galaxy, so we should be seeing some significant improvements on that end soon enough.



Nobody is crazy enough to accuse me of being sane.

Diomedes1976 said:
I dont think Wii is selling so well between hardcore gamers ,its success its like the DS ...its selling well between everybody because it is "new " and "fresh " and the wiimote allows for a distinctive marketing . But ,most of those buyers are casual gamers to the bone ,many in fact will just play Wiisports and wont buy another game for a year .Thats happening with the DS right now ,many consoles are sold ,those people buy Nintendogs ,BT or Mario ...and thats it .Sure ,there are enough hardcore to guarantee some games as FF decent sales ,but most of the success outside those heavy-hitters (that continue to be the same after one year and a half ) is kiddie stuff as Dogz ,Catz ,Hannah Montana and Pokemon .

Haven't watch the Japanese sales have we? As I pointed out before the sales in Japan has increased dramatically since the DS entered the market. DS have a much better attach ratio than PSP. Their is nothing that proves what you are trying to state. Only looking at the Japanese DS sales we have a clear evidence that their is a big market for 3rd party devs on the DS.

Then I just wanted to point out one thing too this thread. PS3 best performing 3rd party title Madden has sold more than Madden on Wii. But Madden Wii is not the best performing 3rd party software. That is Rayman and that game has sold almost 70 k more than Madden PS3 (Rayman 451k, Madden 383). On that Wii has 4 more 3rd party games that has sold more than 300k (CoD3, Red Steel, Madden, Super Monkey Ball), PS3 has none. So give up the crap so far PS3 is performing worse when it comes to 3rd party games than Wii.

EDIT:

Just to point out the difference in performance software wise for Wii vs PS3. By working myself backwards untill week ending 1 april I have succeded to get the following data.

  • PS3 has a total software sales of 3.857 millions.
  • PS3 3rd party software sales is 2.849 millions
  • Wii has a 3rd party software sales of 3.802 millions.

Yes Wii has sold almost the same amount of 3rd party software than PS3 totally has sold. So please give it up! Even if the percent ot the total software sales is lower for Wii than PS3 the size of the pie is significant larger.



 

 

Buy it and pray to the gods of Sigs: Naznatips!

PS3/360 supporters now use the "ratio" comparison because it supports their cause further, Nintendo supporters now use the "numberss" comparison because it supports their cause further. Just a matter of making the argument benefit your perspective.



Nobody is crazy enough to accuse me of being sane.

vanguardian1 said:
PS3/360 supporters now use the "ratio" comparison because it supports their cause further, Nintendo supporters now use the "numberss" comparison because it supports their cause further. Just a matter of making the argument benefit your perspective.

 Aye, the comparisons are worthless. People need to learn more about statistics. If you want to use numbers to prove something, then you should also do a power calculation and state things properly. Without a power calculation the stats are worthless.

Nintendo 3rd party games currently stink and to say that Nintendo should make worse games just to make the ratios look better for 3rd parties is... just plain stupid.

The correct answer to all the questions here is very simple. Follow the money. Where can a company make more money? Nothing else matters to these people. Not ratios. Not ambigious 3rd party sales numbers. Not their love or hate for any particular company.

Right now the money is on Nintendo. They sell more games. Whether they are 1st or 3rd party is irrelavent if a company can make a game of equal or better quality. All that matters is that they sell.




 


Right now the money is on Nintendo. They sell more games. Whether they are 1st or 3rd party is irrelavent if a company can make a game of equal or better quality. All that matters is that they sell.


This is the long and short of it, I think. I don't buy the argument that people purchase Nintendo games just because they're made by Nintendo: I do buy the argument that people purchase Nintendo games because they're almost always of excellent quality. The only current counter example to this is Wii Play -- but I think we all know people are buying that for the Wii mote, not because the came is irresistably good.

Right now, the best reviewed games on the Wii (according to metacritic) are Zelda, Wario Ware, and Super Paper Mario. It's not surprising that (again, besides Wii Sports and Wii play for obvious reasons) these are the best sellers on the system. Right now, the best reviewed games on the PS3 are Motorstorm and Resistance. It's not surprising, then, that these third party titles are obliterating first party ones on that system.

In both cases, the best games are selling well. It's that simple.



http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">