Forums - Sales Discussion - Nintendo means bad news for 3rd parties!

Not only is there less food in Nintendo's ocean, but that whale will have no problem eating any of the fish that are swimming in its territory.

Nobody's denying that Nintendo makes great games.

Motorstorm and Resistance are interesting points. Why do teams like Insomniac, Evolution, Epic, Factor 5, and Bioware turn to Microsoft and Sony rather than Nintendo? Because Nintendo would rather promote its own internal software, or at least something like Mario Goes Fishing, rather than that of an outsider. You think Gears of War would have been nearly as big on Wii as 360? Or that it would have even been given the green light to begin with?

Rogue Squadron didn't sell as well as it would have on PS2. RE4 didn't sell as it did on Sony's systems and turned out to be one of the worst mistakes Capcom ever made, something they eventually realized (too late) and decided to port it to the PS2 and now have killed the developer that started the whole mess.

People are buying Wii Play in droves. This title is crappier than anything the third parties are making. Why are people buying it? It was made by Nintendo.

Ubisoft didn't put their money on Wii. They came out with a couple launch games (a look at the Gamecube launch schedule shows they did the same thing then), but they still know their big money is on 360, followed by PS3. Something like Rayman, much like Sonic, may fit more appropriately with Nintendo's userbase than it will with Microsoft's. However, it doesn't come close to measuring up to Clancy. Granted, we will see a Clancy on Wii here or there, but it won't come close to the 20 or so we'll see on the other platforms. Clancy, by itself, is more important than every single title Ubisoft will release on the Wii throughout its lifespan.

Nintendo can only get so far without third parties, even in Japan. As big as Nintendo's franchises, new and old, are, the Japanese will continue to want games from Square, Enix, Konami, Koei, Capcom, etc. I'd dig deeper into the figures if I felt the numbers on this site outside Japan were reliable, or that I could draw any real conclusions based on them. Only 19 third party games on Wii obviously means something's missing right there, as there were that many on launch day.

DQ's never been about being technologically advanced, but it moving to DS only helps out Wii in the sense that it's not on PS3.

Yeah, the success of remakes, Love and Berry, and Tamogotchi really proves the quality argument.



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Shane, you're insulting the bud before the flower's had a chance to bloom. You can't compare RE4 on GCN to RE4 on PS2 because PS2 had three times the install base. It had nothing to do with Nintendo's competition. In fact, you really can't compare Nintendo's previous consoles to Wii. That's what I was trying to tell you. Last gen, Nintendo bent over backwards to get 3rd party support, and succeeded to a very small extent. A couple FF spinoffs, some Namco RPGs, a bit of Capcom love... but the mainline support was for Sony. Nintendo hasn't had major 3rd party support since the SNES. You're making assertions based on ten years of history that have no bearings on the future. The question is "IF 3rd parties throw support behind Nintendo, will they succeed?" and you're pointing to a past where they didn't. The times, they are a-changin'



fishamaphone said:
Shane, you're insulting the bud before the flower's had a chance to bloom. You can't compare RE4 on GCN to RE4 on PS2 because PS2 had three times the install base. It had nothing to do with Nintendo's competition. In fact, you really can't compare Nintendo's previous consoles to Wii. That's what I was trying to tell you. Last gen, Nintendo bent over backwards to get 3rd party support, and succeeded to a very small extent. A couple FF spinoffs, some Namco RPGs, a bit of Capcom love... but the mainline support was for Sony. Nintendo hasn't had major 3rd party support since the SNES. You're making assertions based on ten years of history that have no bearings on the future. The question is "IF 3rd parties throw support behind Nintendo, will they succeed?" and you're pointing to a past where they didn't. The times, they are a-changin'

 They did succeed though, by GC standards. Shane has used -- in fact he has to use, since it's the only statistic that supports his argument -- a per-system sales figure to show that PS3 third party titles are outselling Wii third party titles on a per system basis. 

Using the same system, Resident Evil 4 did quite well on Gamecube, considering it had 1/5 the system base. 



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Shane said:

Not only is there less food in Nintendo's ocean, but that whale will have no problem eating any of the fish that are swimming in its territory.

Nobody's denying that Nintendo makes great games.

Motorstorm and Resistance are interesting points. Why do teams like Insomniac, Evolution, Epic, Factor 5, and Bioware turn to Microsoft and Sony rather than Nintendo? Because Nintendo would rather promote its own internal software, or at least something like Mario Goes Fishing, rather than that of an outsider. You think Gears of War would have been nearly as big on Wii as 360? Or that it would have even been given the green light to begin with?

Rogue Squadron didn't sell as well as it would have on PS2. RE4 didn't sell as it did on Sony's systems and turned out to be one of the worst mistakes Capcom ever made, something they eventually realized (too late) and decided to port it to the PS2 and now have killed the developer that started the whole mess.

People are buying Wii Play in droves. This title is crappier than anything the third parties are making. Why are people buying it? It was made by Nintendo.

Ubisoft didn't put their money on Wii. They came out with a couple launch games (a look at the Gamecube launch schedule shows they did the same thing then), but they still know their big money is on 360, followed by PS3. Something like Rayman, much like Sonic, may fit more appropriately with Nintendo's userbase than it will with Microsoft's. However, it doesn't come close to measuring up to Clancy. Granted, we will see a Clancy on Wii here or there, but it won't come close to the 20 or so we'll see on the other platforms. Clancy, by itself, is more important than every single title Ubisoft will release on the Wii throughout its lifespan.

Nintendo can only get so far without third parties, even in Japan. As big as Nintendo's franchises, new and old, are, the Japanese will continue to want games from Square, Enix, Konami, Koei, Capcom, etc. I'd dig deeper into the figures if I felt the numbers on this site outside Japan were reliable, or that I could draw any real conclusions based on them. Only 19 third party games on Wii obviously means something's missing right there, as there were that many on launch day.

DQ's never been about being technologically advanced, but it moving to DS only helps out Wii in the sense that it's not on PS3.

Yeah, the success of remakes, Love and Berry, and Tamogotchi really proves the quality argument.


So many issues here.

 

First, Wii Play is selling because it has a Wiimote included, not because it's made by Nintendo. Most of the people I sell the game to have no idea that it's made by Nintendo, they just know that it's a game that costs 10 dollars more than a Wiimote individually.

 

As already pointed out, Resident Evil 4 actually sold better on the Gamecube than it did on the PS2 if you account for the huge disparity in install base. By your standards, Zelda: The Windwaker would have been a bigger game on the PS2, as well. Seriously, it would have.

 

And one last time -- third parties are already clearly shifting their focus to the Wii. Stop with the "Wii doesn't have many 3rd party games" argument, because it's patently false. There are more exclusive 3rd party titles planned for the Wii than there are for the PS3, and the gap is growing, not shrinking.

 

Given the small Gamecube userbase, the best question we can ask ourselves is: "Compared to the titles Nintendo released on the system, did Resident Evil 4 do well?" And the answer is: "Yes." While it didn't sell as well as Zelda: The Windwaker (which was also an excellent title, so not a bad thing), it sold better than Mario Party (several different versions), Metroid Prime, Pokemon (again, all different versions of the game), Paper Mario: TTYD, Star Fox Adventures, and others. So yes, solid third party software can compete in sales with solid Nintendo software. 

 

Really, this is just proves a simple concept: established franchises (Whether individual games are good or not) and quality, big name titles sell very well on any system. For Playstation, this has historically been some first party titles with a lot of third party ones; for the Nintendo systems, it has been (for ten years, at least) solid first party titles with just a few third party ones. But on both systems, one thing remains the same -- the good games and established franchises sell well. The end.

 



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To clarify, the sentence should have been "and you're pointing to a past where they didn't throw support behind Nintendo."



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Shane you need to stop lol. Your not convincing anyone.

 

but anyone expecting third parties to make a concentrated effort on anything but milking Wii while they can and to the extent that they can is going to end up disappointed.Want to show me how I'm supposedly wrong? I'd be real interested in something indicating it.

You mean OTHER than posting the articles saying the Wii is causing developers to shift their focus towards it? (Because I already did that in THIS thread) or other than watching the Wii third party game announcements go from TW07 and Prince of Persia port to Nights:2 Rygar and GH3?

We are ALL watching you ping pong your argument.

 Total 3rd party sales on Wii are HIGHER than they are on the PS3, but you say this doesnt matter because the Wii has a higher userbase.

But RE:4 for GC (a comparison YOU brought up) outsold its PS2 counterpart despite the PS2 having a much larger userbase. Yet you ignore this.

Hell even madden for Wii has passed the PS3 version recently.

Ill let you in on a secret. When an EA game (Madden for example) Sells 550k on Wii (not exact numbers just an estimate) and 500k on the PS3. EA isnt going to stop taking the Wii seriously because the Wii has a 6m userbase and PS3 has a 3.5m userbase.

 

THEY DONT CARE! THEY WANT THEIR GAMES TO SELL MORE MORE MORE. 550k is STILL more than 500k attach rate be DAMNED man. Noone cares about this attach rate garbage but internet board warriors. The developers and publishers care about the number of units their games are pushing.

 

We are seeing games that sold MILLIONS last gen (VF5 Ridge Racer Gundam) Not even get CLOSE to 500k on the PS3, and your acting like devs are surprised establishes multi million sellers are edging out stuff like elebits? Get real, you would LIKE for them to be that dense, but they know the difference between DBZ on the wii doing 300k and VF5 doing 325k. There is a massive gap in both the development cost and quality of those games. And THOSE are the two number that shouldnt be anywhere near each other.

 

Like I said, your just saying "devs will not focus on Wii seriously at all" ignoring all of the game announcements and the news articles FROM the industry saying the exact opposite. Saying this over and over to yourself and on message boards is not going to change reality. 



Madden Wii didn't outsell the PS3 version and the gamecube RE4 didn't outsell the PS2 one....



currently playing: Skyward Sword, Mario Sunshine, Xenoblade Chronicles X

johnsobas said:
Madden Wii didn't outsell the PS3 version and the gamecube RE4 didn't outsell the PS2 one....

You are wrong on both fronts. Last time Madden was on the charts for both Wii and PS3 the Wii was behind,it caught it and passed it weeks after that. And RE4 for cube was over a million sold, PS2 version came no where NEAR that.

 

 



johnsobas said:
Madden Wii didn't outsell the PS3 version and the gamecube RE4 didn't outsell the PS2 one....

While Resident Evil 4 did sell better on the PS2, it did so by a slim margin. The Gamecube version sold to 1 out of every 15 Gamecube owners: the PS2 version sold to 1 out of every 50 or so. 

 

But yeah, otherwise this guy is just making up numbers.  



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Cipherr said:
johnsobas said:
Madden Wii didn't outsell the PS3 version and the gamecube RE4 didn't outsell the PS2 one....

You are wrong on both fronts. Last time Madden was on the charts for both Wii and PS3 the Wii was behind,it caught it and passed it weeks after that. And RE4 for cube was over a million sold, PS2 version came no where NEAR that.

 

Thanks for playing?


As you can see by this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games

Resident Evil 4 for the Gamecube sold approximately 1.6 million copies. Resident Evil 4 for the PS2 sold approximately 2.1 million.

As you can see on this page: http://vgchartz.com/aweekly.php?page=3&date=39215

The PS3 version of Madden 07 has still sold better than the Wii version -- and also notably, it is still selling more copies on a weekly basis. The gap is (Very slightly) widening, not closing. The total sales are 383,443 for the PS3 version, and 355,759 for the Wii version. 

 

Please don't just make up stuff.



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